United States vs. Venezuela (3 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

For some time now, the US has been concentrating naval forces (with Marine detachments) in the Caribbean and general vicinity of Venezuela. Observers have expected some kind of operation there but what that would be wasn't clear. In the past days, the USA's high-profile destruction of an alleged Venezuelan narcotics vessel (including Rubio's explanation that the vessel - not carrying any sort of flag and operated by assumed civilians - was destroyed and its 11 occupants instead of arrested based on orders directly from Trump because it "was an immediate danger to the United States") appears to be setting up some kind of pretext for additional action, a Venezuelan 'Gulf of Tonkin incident' if you will. Trump has indeed promised that this is the beginning of a campaign.

Critics have pointed that the US military's action against the vessel likely violated both international law and well-established US policy. Others have said it is likely that the vessel had migrants and not narcotics. And of course with Trump and his henchmen, the given explanation (combating drug trafficking) is never the actual reason - it's always something more directly tied to Trump's ego and thirst for accolades and retribution.

From a post last week on the buildup:

U.S. Navy Destroyers, Submarine, Amphibious Ships Being Sent Toward Venezuela

The White House calls Venezuelan ruler Maduro a "narco-terrorist" and is deploying ships, planes and Marines in a major show of force.

www.twz.com

Analysis on the legal implications of the destruction of the vessel and its 11 occupants.

Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean

The Trump administration’s extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel raises significant potential legal issues.

www.justsecurity.org

 

[MT15]

Stephen Miller and Hegseth have turned young soldiers into murderers. They have ordered them to commit war crimes, which they obeyed. They should all face the consequences of these actions.

 

[MT15]

 

[efil4]

Stephen Miller and Hegseth have turned young soldiers into murderers. They have ordered them to commit war crimes, which they obeyed. They should all face the consequences of these actions.

Rumor has it that some have already sought out legal representation.

Following illegal orders simply because they are orders, isn't a defense

They have a Duty to Deny.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Rumor has it that some have already sought out legal representation.

Following illegal orders simply because they are orders, isn't a defense

They have a Duty to Deny.

They'll say they were lied to in their intel, which is very plausible in regards to Republicans, Trump, Miller and Hegseth. I honestly think they are being lied to and that it's possible they aren't using the same trigger people twice. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys found out after the fact through non-military sources that they killed civilians and had an angry WTF reaction before calling a lawyer.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Wasn’t sure where to put this
======================


An unverified rumor that Venezuelan gang members were preparing to kill police officers spread like wildfire through US law enforcement agencies last year, internal records reveal, only for federal officials to later quietly acknowledge the claim was mistaken.

The intelligence report, which appears to have first been disseminated by a local New Mexico police department in July 2024, suggested that the Tren de Aragua (TdA) gang had directed its members to “fire on or attack” law enforcement.

The vague assertion quickly traveled among law enforcement agencies. It even made its way into a formal proclamation by Texas governor Greg Abbott, and was repeated by Republican Congress members as evidence of the dangers of Venezuelan immigrants and Democrats’ border policies.

Months later, however, the Federal Bureau of Investigation wrote in an internal report that claims of a TdA “directive to actively target US law enforcement” were inaccurate.

There has been no public acknowledgement of misstatements.

The documents were uncovered by Property of the People, a government transparency non-profit, which has made records requests related to US authorities’ discussions of TdA and shared files with the Guardian.

The records, TdA experts said, suggested that a wide range of powerful law enforcement agencies lacked a basic understanding about the gang and its operations.

In recent months, the stakes of dubious and alarmist claims about TdA have become increasingly high.

Trump’s administration has carried out seven lethal strikes on vessels near Venezuela, in some cases claiming the military was targeting TdA members, without providing concrete evidence, and United Nations experts have said the attacks violated international law.

The Department of Homeland Security has also used unsubstantiated claims of TdA affiliation to deport Venezuelans, without due process, to a notorious El Salvador prison – and has moved to revoke the legal status of roughly 600,000 Venezuelan immigrants.

TdA began in a prison in the Venezuelan state of Aragua, and experts say there is no evidence the group has a clearly organized structure in the US, strongly rejecting claims of an “invasion”. Allegations of a TdA call to attack police were especially far-fetched, scholars said.

But the narrative, records show, quickly took hold.……

Revealed: police across US spread false rumors about Venezuelan gang threats

Claim that Tren de Aragua planned to attack officers was widely shared – only for FBI to later acknowledge it was mistaken, internal files show

www.theguardian.com

 

[efil4]

They'll say they were lied to in their intel, which is very plausible in regards to Republicans, Trump, Miller and Hegseth. I honestly think they are being lied to and that it's possible they aren't using the same trigger people twice. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these guys found out after the fact through non-military sources that they killed civilians and had an angry WTF reaction before calling a lawyer.

doesnt matter what they were told in "intel" - Duty to Deny is a directive that every US service man/woman has to deny an order THEY know to be illegal. Doesnt matter what the intel says nor commanding officer, if they know it to be illegal they must deny.

Those up the chain, absolutely have plausible deniability cards. But im ok in seeing them laid out in JAG or civil court.

Regardless, the stain this will leave is going to be close to indelible.

 

[faceman]

doesnt matter what they were told in "intel" - Duty to Deny is a directive that every US service man/woman has to deny an order THEY know to be illegal. Doesnt matter what the intel says nor commanding officer, if they know it to be illegal they must deny.

Those up the chain, absolutely have plausible deniability cards. But im ok in seeing them laid out in JAG or civil court.

Regardless, the stain this will leave is going to be close to indelible.

Trump as we know is trying to cloud this picture..

4 Out of 5 US Troops Surveyed Understand the Duty to Disobey Illegal Orders

With his Aug. 11, 2025, announcement that he was sending the National Guard – along with federal law enforcement – into Washington, D.C. to fight crime, President Donald Trump edged U.S. troops closer to the kind of military-civilian confrontations that can cross ethical and legal lines.

www.military.com

 

[MT15]

Just murder them. These soldiers better start taking their oaths seriously or they will be found guilty of murder.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Curious what the reaction will be if other countries just start killing Americans committing crimes in their countries

 

[efil4]

If Trump and Kegseth think that attacking Venezuela will be a "walk in the park", then we are in deep trouble and will have some service members KIA/WIA

The only thing i think is that they will send cruise missiles into- there will not be any land invasion as it will turn bad, quick.

 

[MT15]

Curious what the reaction will be if other countries just start killing Americans committing crimes in their countries

*allegedly committing crimes*. Because we have zero proof of any crimes.

 

[faceman]

Rand Paul speaks out.

 

[MT15]

He’s been consistent in these views over the years. It’s probably the only thing I agree with him on, lol.

 

[efil4]

 

[efil4]

 

[brandon]

Venezuelan airstrikes on deck.

Literally.

 

[brandon]

Venezuelan airstrikes on deck.

Literally.

Just to clarify:

This is literally the same playbook as the Russian buildup against Ukraine, but over the ocean.

I think we're about to make a play for Venezuelan oil. No one will come to Venezuela's aid on this, either.

 

[efil4]

Venezuelan airstrikes on deck.

Literally.

weather is crap rn in that area. Plus it will take several days for the strike group to get there.

But yes, this is going to get dicey in the next week or two.

And while Venezuela has no real up-to-date armament, they have some and it only takes one ADA shot to take down an aircraft.

I suspect it will be mostly cruise missile type strikes, and those air launched, well outside the range of their AA missiles.

I cannot imagine a scenario where we actually look to land troops- the coastline isnt conducive for that type of operation - and landing too far east ( Where shoreline is better suited ) is loooong way away from target.