Trump signs order targeting Illegal Aliens in the US census (1 Viewer)

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BobE

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Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump signed a presidential memorandum on Tuesday that would exclude undocumented immigrants from being counted in congressional districts when district lines are redrawn next year.
The memorandum marks the Trump administration's latest effort to change the way US populations are counted and advance the President's immigration agenda, and like previous efforts is certain to end up in court.
"I have accordingly determined that respect for the law and protection of the integrity of the democratic process warrant the exclusion of illegal aliens from the apportionment base, to the extent feasible and to the maximum extent of the President's discretion under the law," the executive order states.
Trump has long sought to use the US census as a way to advance his immigration priorities but the Supreme Court rejected an attempt to ask respondents if they are US citizens in 2019. The administration, however, is allowed to collect information on citizenship status by other means.


There will be lawyers and courts
 
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BobE

BobE

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Seriously? You're going to play petty games over descriptions? You honestly don't know that undocumented immigrants and illegal aliens are the same?

The Supreme Court has upheld DACA, you know that right? You know that what Obama did was not illegal, right?

So you knew you were insinuating a false comparison between what Trump just did and something Obama did in the past, right?
Sorry, not sorry I call them by the actual name.

You realized they did because Trump has moron lawyers right? You know Obama said before he even signed DACA he knew it was likely unconstitutional right?

You do realize not a single person has told me what I was supposed to be comparing right? That I took a wild arse guess because I was never told right?
 

Richard

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Do they even know how many undocumented immigrants there are in Texas?
No one knows how many illegal, undocumented immigrants there are anywhere in the US. That is one reason we cannot have reasonable legislation toward immigration reform. As long as the US policy toward people who are already here is one focused on deportation or at least the threat of deportation, those who are in this country illegally have no reason to raise their hands to say, "yes, count me please." It is an absurd debate IMO. Count them, don't count them. The count will still be very wrong.

In order to have effective immigration reform, the average citizen needs to realize that the US is not going to deport 13-18 million people. It's just not going to happen. Some families have been here for generations illegally. They have worked, paid taxes and raised families without committing any crimes other than to be somewhere there were not authorized to be. A sane immigration reform bill should be centered on identification and documentation of those already here and a path to citizenship for those who have committed no felonies. Previous plans haven't focused on identification and instead wanted to make sure that those who were here illegally were penalized in some way. Those plans are always doomed to failure. Some would try to call my plan an amnesty, but I don't care what you call it. When you have millions of people within your borders who are there illegally, you need to have a plan to identify those people that doesn't have them looking for deeper places to hide. You need to incentivize them to come clean, embrace their place in their adopted country and to do so legally. Without lengthening this post further, the plan would involve a national registration of undocumented immigrants over a specified period without fear of deportation. Anyone found to be here illegally after the registration period would be subject to deportation. There are other details regarding time frame for applications for citizenship, green card rules, overstays of visas, etc. but I will leave all of that for another time.
 

LA - L.A.

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Sorry, not sorry I call them by the actual name.
You said you didn't know what undocumented immigrants were. Obviously, you knew what I was talking about and were being less than honest and genuine when you said "I have no idea what an undocumented immigrant is."

Civil discussions begin with being honest and genuine, not by playing petty word games.

You realized they did because Trump has moron lawyers right?
To say that the Supreme Court only upheld DACA because Trump has moron lawyers is biased and weak.


You know Obama said before he even signed DACA he knew it was likely unconstitutional right?
Actually, I don't know this. He may have said it, but I'm not aware of it. More importantly, the Supreme Court has rule otherwise, oh but that was only because of Trump's dumb lawyers.

You do realize not a single person has told me what I was supposed to be comparing right?
People, like myself, have been trying to figure out exactly what you were referring to when you said:
I have a break between meetings so I will make a very long story very short. Those that cried about Obama doing it loved this. Those that loved Obama doing it are crying over this.
Obama didn't do what Trump just did, yet you imply that Obama did and people are being hypocritical in their response to what Trump is doing.

That I took a wild arse guess because I was never told right?
You didn't guess at anything. You made a snarky comment about hypocrisy and now you seem to be admitting you didn't even really know what you were making a snarky comment about.

Maybe ask what someone is talking about before blindly making snarky comments.

And when someone asks for clarification of what you are insinuating, like I originally did, maybe respond with a genuine answer instead of avoiding the question with disingenuous snark like "I have no idea what an undocumented immigrant is."
 

MT15

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Richard, great post. My objection is that Trump is directly ordering an unconstitutional act with his census decree and he knows clearly that it is because the SC has already ruled against him. We have now exposed so many weaknesses in our system because we have always relied on the President being an honorable man who believes in American democracy.

Trump did this because he knows that just having this decree will cause undocumented residents to avoid being counted, which furthers his agenda.

His willingness to just be openly defiant of the Constitution and the ruling of the Supreme Court ought to be condemned by every patriotic American. Instead we hear crickets. It‘s frustrating.
 

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Well to be fair it seemed like the DACA EO would have just simply rescinded yet here we are. Also *2021 ;)

DACA could have been just rescinded, but Trump chose to fight a court battle. He choose not to just do an EO rescinding DACA.
 

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I can't see this surviving.

The constitution is clear about counting 'person's'. Blame it on the legacy of slavery, if you want, but they could have clarified if they only wanted citizens, or naturally born. They did not.

The SCOTUS has ruled on this, right?

This will be challenged in court and die. However, the chilling effect will occur. Less Illegal/Undocumented folks will reply to the census. It's already hard enough to get citizens to answer.
 
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BobE

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You said you didn't know what undocumented immigrants were. Obviously, you knew what I was talking about and were being less than honest and genuine when you said "I have no idea what an undocumented immigrant is."

Civil discussions begin with being honest and genuine, not by playing petty word games.


To say that the Supreme Court only upheld DACA because Trump has moron lawyers is biased and weak.



Actually, I don't know this. He may have said it, but I'm not aware of it. More importantly, the Supreme Court has rule otherwise, oh but that was only because of Trump's dumb lawyers.


People, like myself, have been trying to figure out exactly what you were referring to when you said:
Obama didn't do what Trump just did, yet you imply that Obama did and people are being hypocritical in their response to what Trump is doing.


You didn't guess at anything. You made a snarky comment about hypocrisy and now you seem to be admitting you didn't even really know what you were making a snarky comment about.

Maybe ask what someone is talking about before blindly making snarky comments.

And when someone asks for clarification of what you are insinuating, like I originally did, maybe respond with a genuine answer instead of avoiding the question with disingenuous snark like "I have no idea what an undocumented immigrant is."
I'll make this short and sweet for you. Maybe when people post something instead of being vague just say it. I responded to an open ended comment but I'm the idiot for not knowing exactly what was being talked about. As far as snarky comments? LMAO. that's rich.
 

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Good catch. If only it were true, we wouldn't have 140K dead Americans and 13 million people unemployed.
Unlike the Trump administration, Biden's team will be working on making sure that all the "t's" are crossed and "i's" dotted to revoke EO's from the Trump administration the night after the election. I'd be surprised if this is not a day-1 item.
Biden's team will be working on making sure he doesn't pee himself in whatever nursing home he resides, while he has to deal with his landslide defeat in this election.
 

RushRoom

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None of this bothers you all? How many of you thought what Obama did was horrible overreach, yet say nothing about this man who cares nothing about our Constitution nor our system of government?
Okay, NAME the constitutional article or amendment that gives illegal aliens a right to be counted in the Census. NAME another article that says they are entitled to even be in a country they entered ILLEGALLY.
We'll wait.
 

RushRoom

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And getting told by the SC that what you want to do is against the constitution and then just doing it anyway.
Tell us again how this violates the constitution. Name the article or the amendment.
 

RushRoom

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Earth to whatever, these are CRIMINALS. They have no rights in America other than swift transportation OUT of this country and to the BACK of the immigration line, behind those who obeyed the law.

Tell me again why this PUSH to reward criminal behavior.
 

Saintamaniac

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Okay, NAME the constitutional article or amendment that gives illegal aliens a right to be counted in the Census. NAME another article that says they are entitled to even be in a country they entered ILLEGALLY.
We'll wait.
In case you don't know this....the US Census counts every person living in the US. If you live in the US, it counts you. Pretty simple concept.
 

Saintamaniac

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Tell us again how this violates the constitution. Name the article or the amendment.
There are 3 branches of government. The Judicial branch, of which the Supreme Court is a part, has already ruled what he did as unconstitutional. Quite simple.
 

MT15

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Okay, NAME the constitutional article or amendment that gives illegal aliens a right to be counted in the Census. NAME another article that says they are entitled to even be in a country they entered ILLEGALLY.
We'll wait.
Using the royal we are you? Lol.

Do you think that people who have committed crimes are not counted by the census? I’ll give you a hint, they are counted. Everyone is counted. You don’t have to be a citizen to be counted. The founders set it up that way, so your argument is with them, actually. Or, you could do a 10 second look at Wiki and find out you’re being lied to by whatever source of propaganda you are currently patronizing.

“The United States Census (plural censuses or census) is a decennial census mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, which states: "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States... according to their respective Numbers... . The actual Enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years".[a][1] Section 2 of the 14th Amendment amended Article I, Section 2 to include that the "respective Numbers" of the "several States" will be determined by "counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.” “

The whole number of persons in each State. Can’t get much clearer than that.
 

MT15

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Earth to whatever, these are CRIMINALS. They have no rights in America other than swift transportation OUT of this country and to the BACK of the immigration line, behind those who obeyed the law.

Tell me again why this PUSH to reward criminal behavior.
This makes zero sense. Do you think being counted by the census has some sort of reward for the person counted? How is the act of counting them “rewarding criminal behavior”?

You don’t get anything for being counted. Can you say how you make sense out of this?
 

Saintamaniac

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Okay, NAME the constitutional article or amendment that gives illegal aliens a right to be counted in the Census. NAME another article that says they are entitled to even be in a country they entered ILLEGALLY.
We'll wait.
Yeah....this is starting to smell like a troll is in the vicinity....
 

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