Trump Pardon Tracker (2 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Seems like we might need a thread for this.

Granted: Michael Flynn (pardoned for 'any and all possible offenses' arising from or related to the criminal case against him and anything within the scope of the Mueller investigation).

 

[superchuck500]

So . . . I think the pardon issue has shifted a bit over the last 24 hours.

I think the Pence-pardons-Trump scenario is well off the table. Self-pardon would be met with unanimous rage.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Self-pardon would be met with unanimous rage.

I'd assume he's already pardoned himself and his entire family and we just haven't been told yet. But I agree that he's completely burned the Pence bridge now.

 

[superchuck500]

I'd assume he's already pardoned himself and his entire family and we just haven't been told yet. But I agree that he's completely burned the Pence bridge now.

Self-pardon remains a suspect concept, legally.

But I don't see any restraint on his pardon power otherwise. His family. Anyone that stormed Capitol Hill, etc. It would be very hard to challenge.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Self-pardon remains a suspect concept, legally.

I'm not saying it will have effect, but I am saying that is a 99.9999% certainty that he either has or will do it. The Constitution hasn't stopped him from doing plenty of things.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Self-pardon remains a suspect concept, legally.

But I don't see any restraint on his pardon power otherwise. His family. Anyone that stormed Capitol Hill, etc. It would be very hard to challenge.

Can he blanket pardon or would he have to actually know the names of the people to pardon them?

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

 

[superchuck500]

Right on cue!

 

[FullMonte]

Can he blanket pardon or would he have to actually know the names of the people to pardon them?

He can do a blanket pardon. Unless I'm mistaken a pardon was issued for everyone who dodged the Vietnam draft.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

He can do a blanket pardon. Unless I'm mistaken a pardon was issued for everyone who dodged the Vietnam draft.

That is true.

 

[superchuck500]

White House counsel and Barr warned Trump not to self-pardon | CNN Politics

White House counsel Pat Cipollone and former Attorney General Bill Barr have warned President Donald Trump that they do not believe he should pardon himself, multiple sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

www.cnn.com

 

[FullMonte]

So, I've got another legal question for the experts out there, regarding admissible evidence.

The Supreme Court has ruled that a pardon has an imputation of guilt and acceptance a confession of it. So, if a pardon is issued, it implies guilt, and if it is accepted that is seen as a confession of guilt.

So, if Trump were to self-pardon, he would be implying guilt, and confessing guilt. If that pardon were overturned by the courts, and deemed not valid; and Trump were prosecuted...would his actions of issuing and accepting the pardon be admissible as evidence of guilt and confession of guilt in his ensuing trial?

 

[DaveXA]

So, I've got another legal question for the experts out there, regarding admissible evidence.

The Supreme Court has ruled that a pardon has an imputation of guilt and acceptance a confession of it. So, if a pardon is issued, it implies guilt, and if it is accepted that is seen as a confession of guilt.

So, if Trump were to self-pardon, he would be implying guilt, and confessing guilt. If that pardon were overturned by the courts, and deemed not valid; and Trump were prosecuted...would his actions of issuing and accepting the pardon be admissible as evidence of guilt and confession of guilt in his ensuing trial?

I don't know what Trump will do, but, I don't see him issuing himself a pardon. He would never admit guilt on anything. So pardoning himself would be pointless if that's his thinking.

 

[zztop]

The Supreme Court has ruled that a pardon has an imputation of guilt and acceptance a confession of it. So, if a pardon is issued, it implies guilt, and if it is accepted that is seen as a confession of guilt.

This is why I can't see him pardoning himself. His ego is just too much to admit he was guilty of anything.

 

[FullMonte]

I don't know what Trump will do, but, I don't see him issuing himself a pardon. He would never admit guilt on anything. So pardoning himself would be pointless if that's his thinking.

Oh, I don't think he will either...I was more interested in the legal/procedural side of it.

 

[Maxp]

If Trump pardons himself, Biden's justice department will have to charge him with something in order to challenge the pardon.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

If Trump pardons himself, Biden's justice department will have to charge him with something in order to challenge the pardon.

Or they can charge around the pardon...the good news is that most of trump's competent lawyers are gone so it'll be some bush league nut-job lawyer helping w/ the wording of his pardon...our worst case scenario. Otherwise it could very well be his own wording in his pardon, pardoning him from the "Many, many, tremendously, bad things I've been accused of while being in office - total witch hunt".

 

[Taurus]

I don't know what Trump will do, but, I don't see him issuing himself a pardon. He would never admit guilt on anything. So pardoning himself would be pointless if that's his thinking.

From what I've seen, if it'll keep him out of jail, Trump will pardon himself in a heartbeat. Then he'll just say it was being smart and he totally didn't do those things.

DJT would lick the floor of a pigsty to stay out of jail. He'd kill your kids, my kids, his own kids. Being imprisoned and destitute are the only things he can't fake his way out of and he'll do anything to avoid them.

 

[superchuck500]

So, I've got another legal question for the experts out there, regarding admissible evidence.

The Supreme Court has ruled that a pardon has an imputation of guilt and acceptance a confession of it. So, if a pardon is issued, it implies guilt, and if it is accepted that is seen as a confession of guilt.

So, if Trump were to self-pardon, he would be implying guilt, and confessing guilt. If that pardon were overturned by the courts, and deemed not valid; and Trump were prosecuted...would his actions of issuing and accepting the pardon be admissible as evidence of guilt and confession of guilt in his ensuing trial?

The view that the Supreme Court's language in the Burdick case means that all pardons, when accepted, constitute a confession of guilt is a misinterpretation. The language was dicta and contextually related to the specific facts in that case. There is no rule of law that accepting a pardon constitutes an admission of guilt.

And the hypo you're suggesting: pardon (i.e. confession) -> invalidation of pardon -> prosecution -> acceptance of pardon is a confession for purposes of conviction would be even more challenged legally. It's not plausible.