Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32717.pdf

 

[coldseat]

The UCMJ is for dealing with crimes that have already been committed.

I'm specifically talking about taking preventative measures to prevent crimes from occurring in the first place, or at least to prevent those crimes from overwhelming our democracy.

The UCMJ will only deal with a coup attempt if it fails. We need ways to ensure the coups always fail. While Wednesday's coup attempt failed, it also highlighted weaknesses that I think we all find unacceptable. We cannot just depend on punishing those responsible. We must prevent those responsible from having the ability in the first place.

And oh, by the way...the UCMJ isn't an effective tool for preventing subservience to a rogue president when the president has pardon powers.


I disagree that this was a morph from the original discussion. "Rogue elements" could occur at any level of the military. See: Lieutenant General and National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.

I know @brandon is getting a lot of push back here, especially from those who who have served, but Trump's changes at the Pentagon (especially since his election loss) have had a serious impact on how the national guard was used to responded to this insurrection.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

While that's a far cry from a military coup, it does bring up a lot of questions and doubts that we seriously need to look into. The question/possibility of a military coup should never be considered to be zero, especially after everything we've seen. Like I said in my first response to this insurrection, Biden (whether he wants to or not) needs to announce a presidential commission to look into everything that has lead up to this. Some serious changes need to be made. And the failures of our response, both from the DOJ and the military and how that was impacted since Trump's loss needs to be seriously examined.

I think what we possibly need is a new law that freezes all Cabinet, DOJ and Pentagon/Military appointments from the period after a presidential election through inauguration day or until the electoral college reaffirms the election of the sitting president. They also need to strip the pardon powers of the president through that same period of time, even if it takes a constitutional amendment.

 

[porculator]

lol if an insurrection won't make them do anything but "consider" then that is pretty damn pathetic of them
I'm still expecting susan collins to go on record as having "concerns" about trump but convinced he won't cause another one.

She would prob vote for it, but they wouldn't get the 66 they need.

Meanwhile, Biden is at risk of having zero confirmed cabinet members on Jan 20 because of the delay from the Georgia runoffs. If I were Biden I get on the horn with Turtle and tell him I won't bring up the I word if you confirm every single one of my nominees right now.

 

[The moose]

i thought that guy looked familiar
===========================

Jamiroquai lead singer Jay Kay was forced to deny that he was one of the rioters at the US Capitol on Wednesday after he began trending on social media.

Twitter users noted the resemblance of one of the rioter’s Viking horns to Kay’s flamboyant headgear that he often donned while performing.

“Good Morning Washington, loving the headgear, but not sure that’s my crowd,” the English singer tweeted on Thursday. “Stay safe everyone, J xxx.”..................

Jamiroquai singer: I'm not the Capitol ‘viking’ rioter (pagesix.com)

That is beautiful I was thinking that was the look he was going for.

Extremely under rated band.

 

[zztop]

She would prob vote for it, but they wouldn't get the 66 they need.

Meanwhile, Biden is at risk of having zero confirmed cabinet members on Jan 20 because of the delay from the Georgia runoffs. If I were Biden I get on the horn with Turtle and tell him I won't bring up the I word if you confirm every single one of my nominees right now.

Eh, I'm skeptical because I can't recall her voting with the democrats against trump in the past. She is on record (in regards to her voting to acquit him) [he has learned] "a pretty big lesson" and "I believe he will be much more cautious in the future" which is all bullshirt to me

 

[saintmdterps]

I'm finding it disappointing that so many people can't see what seems so obvious.

I doubt anyone forced Trump to give his speech. I don't doubt it was written for him. I think he chose to gave his speech today, because the only clear message in the speech was to condemn the assault yesterday and on the record say that he did not want what happened yesterday. He did the speech today to create reasonable doubt if he's ever charged with sedition or inciting a riot.

Everyone that is resigning right now are not resigning because they think Trump went to far. They all knew this was coming and stuck around. They are resigning, because the seditious assault didn't work. They are resigning in case they are investigated or charged. They are also creating reasonable doubt in case they need it. They can defend themselves by saying "I knew nothing, I saw nothing, I heard nothing and after it happened I quit."

It's all just so obvious when you consider the historical behavior and motivations of every single one of them. Self-enrichment and self-preservation is all they care about. Trump threw his supporters who stormed the Capitol under the bus today not to avoid being removed from office 13 days early. He did it to try to avoid being charged and convicted of sedition.

Everyone else who is resigning is doing it for the same reason.

They were all going to get a pink slip in 2 weeks anyway. DeVos is of course the height of hypocrisy in her feigned outrage. Good Riddance.

 

[SFIDC3]

Eh, I'm skeptical because I can't recall her voting with the democrats against trump in the past. She is on record (in regards to her voting to acquit him) [he has l earned] "a pretty big lesson" and "I believe he will be much more cautious in the future" which is all bullshirt to me

She is the most disingenuous of them all. Was really disappointed that she was re-elected....

 

[DaveXA]

I know @brandon is getting a lot of push back here, especially from those who who have served, but Trump's changes at the Pentagon (especially since his election loss) have had a serious impact on how the national guard was used to responded to this insurrection.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

While that's a far cry from a military coup, it does bring up a lot of questions and doubts that we seriously need to look into. The question/possibility of a military coup should never be considered to be zero, especially after everything we've seen. Like I said in my first response to this insurrection, Biden (whether he wants to or not) needs to announce a presidential commission to look into everything that has lead up to this. Some serious changes need to be made. And the failures of our response, both from the DOJ and the military and how that was impacted since Trump's loss needs to be seriously examined.

I think what we possibly need is a new law that freezes all Cabinet, DOJ and Pentagon/Military appointments from the period after a presidential election through inauguration day or until the electoral college reaffirms the election of the sitting president. They also need to strip the pardon powers of the president through that same period of time, even if it takes a constitutional amendment.

No one is saying the probability is zero. And no one is saying Trump's moves aren't concerning. But what he's done isn't necessarily unprecedented. Previous Presidents have made similar moves throughout their own Administrations as well. What is concerning is the large amount of moves he's made as of late. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's nefarious.

Limiting the powers of the President during the transition isn't something I see happening though. It has to be consistent from the first day until he leaves office. It's the same problem with a lame duck Congress. Their rules don't change during the lame duck session. I think there would be Constitutional issues with trying to change the rules. I get the rationale, but don't see that changing.

Good luck with curbing Presidential pardon powers.

And fwiw, broadly speaking, I think the President has entirely too much power, and Trump is a great case illustrating why that's the case.

As for the National Guard response, make of it what you will, but here is the DOD's response to what happened at the Capitol.

DOD details National Guard response to Capitol attack

WASHINGTON – Once the reality of the assault on the U.S. Capitol became apparent, National Guard troops responded appropriately and with alacrity, Department of Defense officials said in a phone

www.nationalguard.mil

It pretty much confirms what's been reported that the USCP had already made it clear they didn't need assistance at the Capitol until it was too late. The Guardsmen who had already been assigned to assist in other areas, i.e. directing traffic and such had to be gathered to return to the DC Armory to get refitted for their Capitol assignment. The USCP bears the brunt of the responsibility for not being prepared for this. Had they understood the potential for this happening, they could have requested Guard assistance prior to the event. The planned rally was not a surprise and most everyone know that the vote counting would be going on at that time. Just a colossal failure of security to anticipate this possibility.

 

[Incumbent]

The potential ramifications from this kind of theft are extraordinary. No leniency should be shown to anybody who participated in this insurrection.

 

[The moose]

She is the most disingenuous of them all. Was really disappointed that she was re-elected....

The sad thing about senators is that most of us know that sending a new one there will in essence get nothing done until they make connections.

So basically your state will suffer.

Mitch has real power and can help his state yet voting someone out like that bites the hand that feeds you.

That is why we need to limit them some way.

I would think the connections and the exactly nothing most new senators get done is the reason she was re elected.

 

[PurpleReign]

The potential ramifications from this kind of theft are extraordinary. No leniency should be shown to anybody who participated in this insurrection.

So have we crossed over from insurrection and sedition into the land of espionage?

 

[DaveXA]

The potential ramifications from this kind of theft are extraordinary. No leniency should be shown to anybody who participated in this insurrection.

If they find out whoever stole it, that individual is about to be in a world of hurt.

 

[DaveXA]

So have we crossed over from insurrection and sedition into the land of espionage?

Hey, come to think of it, could it be that the mob was a cover for espionage? Wouldn't shock me. LOL.

Total speculation, but interesting possibility to consider.

 

[porculator]

I know @brandon is getting a lot of push back here, especially from those who who have served, but Trump's changes at the Pentagon (especially since his election loss) have had a serious impact on how the national guard was used to responded to this insurrection.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

While that's a far cry from a military coup, it does bring up a lot of questions and doubts that we seriously need to look into. The question/possibility of a military coup should never be considered to be zero, especially after everything we've seen. Like I said in my first response to this insurrection, Biden (whether he wants to or not) needs to announce a presidential commission to look into everything that has lead up to this. Some serious changes need to be made. And the failures of our response, both from the DOJ and the military and how that was impacted since Trump's loss needs to be seriously examined.

I think what we possibly need is a new law that freezes all Cabinet, DOJ and Pentagon/Military appointments from the period after a presidential election through inauguration day or until the electoral college reaffirms the election of the sitting president. They also need to strip the pardon powers of the president through that same period of time, even if it takes a constitutional amendment.

I'm skeptical of the Feds too (as I expressed earlier, if the lack of response was out of spite, it would be the most impeachable offense of them all) but this is starting to look more like skittish leadership worrying about "optics" than malice.

From that article:
A U.S. defense official said the Army general on the call didn’t formally deny the request but rather reinforced the negative optics of having uniformed personnel inside the Capitol, a point on which Bowser had agreed, and later checked with the chain of command. The defense official said Bowser agreed that if further support was necessary, D.C. police would provide it inside the Capitol, and the Guard would backfill D.C. police positions away from the building.

If you'll recall the BLM protests in DC, there was quite the pissing match between Mayor Bowser and the feds over the National Guard. Trumps ridiculous Bible stunt put a bad taste in everyone's mouth, and Bowser made a big deal about removing all of them from the city. And it actually seemed to have worked in reducing tensions. So I can see the concern of bringing in the National Guard escalating things in theory. But the circumstances here were completely different. The BLM protests were literally about police brutality, which is why adding more brutal police was bad optics. And while it may cause some painful and much needed critical thinking among the MAGA crowd, there would have been nothing wrong with the optics of the National Guard clubbing the shirt out of some domestic terrorists.

 

[PurpleReign]

Hey, come to think of it, could it be that the mob was a cover for espionage? Wouldn't shock me. LOL.

Total speculation, but interesting possibility to consider.

In the Chinese version of Mission Impossible... “your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to follow the guy in the furry hat with horns into the US Capitol...”

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

The sequel to 2020 is going great.

in retrospect we probably should have done a 'six months later' time jump or something similar

 

[zztop]

The potential ramifications from this kind of theft are extraordinary. No leniency should be shown to anybody who participated in this insurrection.

I'm willing to bet she has a stronger password than maga2020

 

[DaveXA]

I'm willing to bet she has a stronger password than maga2020

Buildbackbetter2021?

 

[porculator]

The sequel to 2020 is going great.

It's kind of annoying that she would tell that to the press. Yes, make the call discreetly, but don't then go bragging about how you're trying to neuter the president behind his back, until you've actually figured out a way to do it.