Trump loyalists in Congress to challenge Electoral College results in Jan. 6 joint session (Update: Insurrectionists storm Congress)(And now what?) (3 Viewers)

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superchuck500

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I guess it's time to start a thread for this. We know that at least 140 members of Congress have pledged to join the objection. Under federal law, if at least one member of each house (HOR and Senate) objects, each house will adjourn the joint session for their own session (limited at two hours) to take up the objection. If both houses pass a resolution objecting to the EC result, further action can take place. If both houses do not (i.e. if one or neither passes a resolution), the objection is powerless and the college result is certified.

Clearly this is political theater as we know such a resolution will not pass the House, and there's good reason to think it wouldn't pass the Senate either (with or without the two senators from Georgia). The January 6 joint session is traditionally a ceremonial one. This one will not be.

Many traditional pillars of Republican support have condemned the plan as futile and damaging. Certainly the Trump loyalists don't care - and many are likely doing it for fundraising purposes or to carry weight with the fraction of their constituencies that think this is a good idea.


 

DJ1BigTymer

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Yea she also said "We came close to half of the House nearly dying on Wednesday". It's a little much, considering that members of the the same House were literally shot by a terrorist at a baseball practice a few years ago in what could have been a massacre.

The reality of the situation including all of the video and images still coming out are shocking enough. No need to add hyperbole and muddy the waters.
To me, that comes across as not being completely honest with people in an effort to fire up her side. Both sides of the house does this shirt and it pisses me off. We all have an idea of what was happening in the House that day, no need to tell half a story, and then claim security concerns for the other half, leaving it up to the listeners/readers to speculate what specifically happened to her. I expect more from ALL OF THEM!
 

DJ1BigTymer

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what do you think would have happened if they had reached the chamber while members of Congress were still there? do you think they would have had casual conversation with them?
I do not know, and that's kinda the point I was trying to make. Her comments were designed to spark speculation of what may have happened to her instead of saying what actually happened to her. She was the victim here, there's nothing stopping her from telling her story other than "security concerns", of course.
 

porculator

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what do you think would have happened if they had reached the chamber while members of Congress were still there? do you think they would have had casual conversation with them?
Probably would have gotten shot by the guards is my guess.
 

SystemShock

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I do not know, and that's kinda the point I was trying to make. Her comments were designed to spark speculation of what may have happened to her instead of saying what actually happened to her. She was the victim here, there's nothing stopping her from telling her story other than "security concerns", of course.
I'll cut her some slack. She's been so demonized and made such a target, I don't doubt she feared for her life, and I am 100% sure the mob would've torn her apart had they gotten their hands on her.
 
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Taurus

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Probably would have gotten shot by the guards is my guess.
All of them?

I mean, if only the subset chanting "Hang Mike Pence!," had gotten in the room with Mike Pence, there's no way the Secret Service could have prevented his capture. (And, presumably, subsequent hanging)
 

EmBeeFiveOhFour

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Maybe this is part of it?

She needs receipts for this If she has receipts that is astounding. We can all guess some of the names (Boebert, Gosar, Mo Brooks, etc.) that would surprise no one. But if she doesn't have proof this is becoming tin-foilish. But I'll get popcorn ready.
 

DaveXA

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There will be a record... Phone numbers, text, email and God help those 3 if it is found to be true.

I'm skeptical when names are named when the heat is just ramping up. But FBI will do their thing.

And they do it well.
If the 3 allowed people to case the Capitol the day before this happened, they need to be expelled from Congress and thrown in prison for a long, long time.

There should be plenty of video evidence of this. There are cameras all over the Capitol and city.
 

Roofgardener

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strip him of his medals after arrest
If they are Olympic medals, then the US has no authority to do that. I'm not sure about medals from domestic competitions; I believe they might be awarded by the organisers. They certainly aren't in the gift of the US government to remove ?

But if its righteous indignation your after, the US government MIGHT be able to take his children, and burn down his house. And his neighbours houses, just to be on the safe side ?

All of them?

I mean, if only the subset chanting "Hang Mike Pence!," had gotten in the room with Mike Pence, there's no way the Secret Service could have prevented his capture. (And, presumably, subsequent hanging)
Umm... I dunno. They are highly trained, and they have guns. It's kinda academic anyway, as all the bigwigs where spirited away by the Secret Service before anyone broke into the capital building !
 
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J-DONK

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If the 3 allowed people to case the Capitol the day before this happened, they need to be expelled from Congress and thrown in prison for a long, long time.

There should be plenty of video evidence of this. There are cameras all over the Capitol and city.
NSA would already know if they had their phones on.
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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I'm going to use this as a jumping off point for a couple things going on in my head.

First, I'm a big fan of the right to protest and believe civil disobedience is an extremely important tool to effect change, as long as you believe enough in your cause to go to jail for it. And yes, I think putting maximum pressure on representatives is fine (so long as it's not violent). So, while there is a certain temptation to try to treat this like we imagine those same Trump supporters probably treated BLM protestors, I think it's important to make sure I'm being specific in what I'm criticizing.

So, for example with Ali here. I don't see anything wrong with the statement in this video about wanting to put maximum pressure on legislatures. He did specifically state that he imagined his protestors to be outside. It seems clear to me that his intent was to make Republicans believe that they risked losing massive support if they don't vote the way they want. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now, of course what they wanted was unconstitutional and idiotic, but I don't think they were being seditious.

So, I think there really should be a differentiation between people who were dumb and believed the lies they were told and were protesting based on that - even those that tried to occupy the Capitol building; and those that were ready for actual war. Some of them still committed illegal acts, and should be punished based off that -- but in the same way that I think other protestors should be punished for crimes they commit while protesting.

The second point is how should law enforcement have responded to this. There's going to be a lengthy review of this, and it's clear that they were not adequately prepared for what happened. My general thoughts are there should have been enough forces to prevent people from entering the capitol building. They should have been equipped with non-lethal means to repel people from entering, but that should not be used pre-emptively. This is some Monday Morning Quarterbacking on my part because I generally don't think you should meet a protest with riot gear, because that tends to escalate things. However, there were a lot of reports of specific threats of intent to occupy the building.

Barring enough man power to prevent the occupation, my next preference would be safely evacuating people. I do not think we should be lighting up people storming the capitol. I always value human life over property and this is no exception. I don't fault the Capitol Police with not trying to arrest people within the Rotunda etc after the breach. I do not believe that could have been done safely. At that point, what should be done is gathering as much intel as possible to make arrests later.

I guess this is a bit of a ramble, but I think it's important to outline what is the proper way to deal with protestors - and from what I've seen the majority of those people were just dumb protestors. There were certainly more malicious actors there, and that's another category that needs a different response.
 

efil4

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If they are Olympic medals, then the US has no authority to do that. I'm not sure about medals from domestic competitions; I believe they might be awarded by the organisers. They certainly aren't in the gift of the US government to remove ?

But if its righteous indignation your after, the US government MIGHT be able to take his children, and burn down his house. And his neighbours houses, just to be on the safe side ?


Umm... I dunno. They are highly trained, and they have guns. It's kinda academic anyway, as all the bigwigs where spirited away by the Secret Service before anyone broke into the capital building !
Then I'll settle for a few years behind bars for sedition and a federal felony race cord to follow him a lifetime.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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I'm going to use this as a jumping off point for a couple things going on in my head.

First, I'm a big fan of the right to protest and believe civil disobedience is an extremely important tool to effect change, as long as you believe enough in your cause to go to jail for it. And yes, I think putting maximum pressure on representatives is fine (so long as it's not violent). So, while there is a certain temptation to try to treat this like we imagine those same Trump supporters probably treated BLM protestors, I think it's important to make sure I'm being specific in what I'm criticizing.

So, for example with Ali here. I don't see anything wrong with the statement in this video about wanting to put maximum pressure on legislatures. He did specifically state that he imagined his protestors to be outside. It seems clear to me that his intent was to make Republicans believe that they risked losing massive support if they don't vote the way they want. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now, of course what they wanted was unconstitutional and idiotic, but I don't think they were being seditious.

So, I think there really should be a differentiation between people who were dumb and believed the lies they were told and were protesting based on that - even those that tried to occupy the Capitol building; and those that were ready for actual war. Some of them still committed illegal acts, and should be punished based off that -- but in the same way that I think other protestors should be punished for crimes they commit while protesting.

The second point is how should law enforcement have responded to this. There's going to be a lengthy review of this, and it's clear that they were not adequately prepared for what happened. My general thoughts are there should have been enough forces to prevent people from entering the capitol building. They should have been equipped with non-lethal means to repel people from entering, but that should not be used pre-emptively. This is some Monday Morning Quarterbacking on my part because I generally don't think you should meet a protest with riot gear, because that tends to escalate things. However, there were a lot of reports of specific threats of intent to occupy the building.

Barring enough man power to prevent the occupation, my next preference would be safely evacuating people. I do not think we should be lighting up people storming the capitol. I always value human life over property and this is no exception. I don't fault the Capitol Police with not trying to arrest people within the Rotunda etc after the breach. I do not believe that could have been done safely. At that point, what should be done is gathering as much intel as possible to make arrests later.

I guess this is a bit of a ramble, but I think it's important to outline what is the proper way to deal with protestors - and from what I've seen the majority of those people were just dumb protestors. There were certainly more malicious actors there, and that's another category that needs a different response.
I agree to an extent. But his history brings up some bad points on him, this quotes below at least makes it worth being investigated with his intent.


Most pointedly, Alexander responded to a tweet from QAnon-supporter Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) claiming that top congressional leaders were working to block objections to the electoral vote. If that happened, Alexander said, he and hundreds of thousands of other protesters would “1776” the Capitol.

“If they do this, everyone can guess what me and 500,000 others will do to that building,” Alexander tweeted on Dec. 30. “1776 is *always* an option”

The night before the Jan. 6 rally, Alexander riled up Trump supporters in Washington with a “victory or death” chant and once again brought up “1776.”


IMO, if you are the organizer of this event, and you say stuff like this, you are inciting. But I'll let the courts decide that. I have no problem with him being arrested, investigated and him having his day in court. When you are investigated for things of this nature, you better hope they don't find digital receipts that make this worse. just because you delete DM's and emails doesn't mean they aren't still there.
 

Nebaghead

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Umm... I dunno. They are highly trained, and they have guns. It's kinda academic anyway, as all the bigwigs where spirited away by the Secret Service before anyone broke into the capital building !
Actually they didn’t take them out till after the breach. I was watching it live and CNN was switching between the protests and to the proceedings and the breach was announced before the Secret Service whisked Pence away.

I don’t doubt that the SS would have had no qualms opening fire on people approaching them or anyone else they were protecting. What I don’t know is if they would have had enough forces to repel them. Typically when they are at a protected building like the capitol they don’t have a large force since there are some additional protections in place.

Did you see the photo of the furniture being used to block the door. That doesn’t look like an under control situation.
 

Roofgardener

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Actually they didn’t take them out till after the breach. I was watching it live and CNN was switching between the protests and to the proceedings and the breach was announced before the Secret Service whisked Pence away.

I don’t doubt that the SS would have had no qualms opening fire on people approaching them or anyone else they were protecting. What I don’t know is if they would have had enough forces to repel them. Typically when they are at a protected building like the capitol they don’t have a large force since there are some additional protections in place.

Did you see the photo of the furniture being used to block the door. That doesn’t look like an under control situation.
Hmm.. no, I didn't.
Question: I know the VP has secret service protection, but do general Representatives and Senators ?
 

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