Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Snarky Sack]

A two week trial is entirely reasonable for this case. But that will ultimately depend on how many witnesses there are. It’s not a hard limit.

Well, obviously that isn't something either one of us could prove the other wrong on.

Two weeks makes sense as a very rough estimate of how long the prosecution will take to present its case. That may be what the judge actually based her time frame on. The prosecution could have told the judge that as an estimate. The defense could, in fact must, say that it has no idea at all, given that discovery has not even started yet (as far as I know).

 

[MT15]

This is part of Trump’s infamous interview last night. He’s practically incoherent here.

 

[DaveXA]

This is part of Trump’s infamous interview last night. He’s practically incoherent here.

I'm at the point that the GOP should just go ahead and nominate Trump. He's gonna get completely destroyed in the general election.

Wait, fork that, I'm not sure I trust the American people to make the right choice. Rather not take any chances.

 

[superchuck500]

Well, obviously that isn't something either one of us could prove the other wrong on.

Two weeks makes sense as a very rough estimate of how long the prosecution will take to present its case. That may be what the judge actually based her time frame on. The prosecution could have told the judge that as an estimate. The defense could, in fact must, say that it has no idea at all, given that discovery has not even started yet (as far as I know).

You keep talking about discovery - here’s the rule, below. It’s defined and fairly narrow, nothing like civil discovery.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You keep talking about discovery - here’s the rule, below. It’s defined and fairly narrow, nothing like civil discovery.

In fairness, before I study all of that, could you state the point that you think it supports?

 

[Snarky Sack]

I'm at the point that the GOP should just go ahead and nominate Trump. He's gonna get completely destroyed in the general election.

Wait, fork that, I'm not sure I trust the American people to make the right choice. Rather not take any chances.

Not trusting the American people to make the right choice seems to be the theme of the Trump investigations. If you agree with that theme, you may want to try any one of the hundreds of countries whose citizens are not called "the American people." Canada is close, and so is Mexico. Head to the nearest one, if the American people do not suit you.

This indictment guaranteed Trump's winning of the primary, absent his death, in which case it will go to DeSantis.

Unless Biden drops out, or the state of the union sharply improves, the GOP nominee, most likely Trump, will win.

He would then be able to pardon himself, even from his own prison cell.

Have you considered trying to defeat him on the issues?

 

[superchuck500]

In fairness, before I study all of that, could you state the point that you think it supports?

It’s stated in my post.

 

[DaveXA]

Not trusting the American people to make the right choice seems to be the theme of the Trump investigations. If you agree with that theme, you may want to try any one of the hundreds of countries whose citizens are not called "the American people." Canada is close, and so is Mexico. Head to the nearest one, if the American people do not suit you.

This indictment guaranteed Trump's winning of the primary, absent his death, in which case it will go to DeSantis.

Unless Biden drops out, or the state of the union sharply improves, the GOP nominee, most likely Trump, will win.

He would then be able to pardon himself, even from his own prison cell.

Have you considered trying to defeat him on the issues?

It's pretty simple, Trump is a charlatan, a womanizing, misogynistic, bigoted con artist who fools people for a living. I've read his book "Art of the Deal" and it was the antithesis of everything I believed in as a Christian. He mocks people who don't agree with him, makes fun of disabled people and treats too many people with disdain and disrespect.

On top of all of that, he's said it's OK to grab women by the p, and that women want it. He whines and lies about the 2020 election being stolen and keeps repeating nonsense about missing ballots and boxes and everything else when it's already been litigated.

He lost a civil suit in which he was found liable for sexual assault. He's been impeached, indicted and I think he's gonna be found guilty of most if not all of the charges he's facing, and we haven't even touched on his attempt to sway the results in Georgia and he was largely responsible for 1/6 happening.

I actually think the American people will have sense enough not to vote for him, but I fully expect he'll claim he won the election again even when he gets 35% of the vote.

I'd just rather not have to deal with all of Trump's BS for another election cycle. When it comes to the issues, it really doesn't matter when it comes to Trump. He's a man without integrity. I can't in good conscience vote for him under any circumstances. There are a couple of Republicans I might consider voting for, but, I can safely say I won't vote for Trump, DeSantis and Ramaswamy. I doubt I'd vote for Pence. He'd have to do a lot to convince me. Hutchinson and Christie I'd give consideration to. Liz Cheney is probably who I'd like most to run for President because throughout it all, she has never wavered in her opposition to Trump. That's the kind of strong woman I can vote for.

I can absolutely promise this...if Trump gets elected, I'll gladly move to Korea where my wife is from. You can have the fascist banana republic the country will become to your heart's content at that point.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I hope when Biden is re-elected, he gets another AG; one that will finish the job and go after every Republican congress person and senator who participated in the coup attempt. Nothing republican supporters say or do should deter a new AG from going after all of them and going hard after them.

Let 'em try J6 again. Biden should offer them "una celda o plomo"?

I think that's exactly what's motivating Republicans who are vocally supporting Trump by accusing the DOJ as being weaponized against Trump and Republicans. I think they are attacking the integerity of the DOJ, because they're worried about the DOJ going after them for their role in the failed insurrection.

I don't think they give a crap about saving Trump from prosecution. I think they're preemptively trying to save themselves. I think they're afraid of something more than just losing the votes of Trump supporters. Maybe they're true believers, but I cynically doubt that.

 

[samiam5211]

Not trusting the American people to make the right choice seems to be the theme of the Trump investigations. If you agree with that theme, you may want to try any one of the hundreds of countries whose citizens are not called "the American people." Canada is close, and so is Mexico. Head to the nearest one, if the American people do not suit you.

This indictment guaranteed Trump's winning of the primary, absent his death, in which case it will go to DeSantis.

Unless Biden drops out, or the state of the union sharply improves, the GOP nominee, most likely Trump, will win.

He would then be able to pardon himself, even from his own prison cell.

Have you considered trying to defeat him on the issues?

The issue is that 30% of the country is in a cult and doesn't know it.

Trump will never come close to winning a general election again.

If he does win the nomination, all it guarantees is that Trump will be the first major party candidate in history to lose the popular vote 3 times.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You keep talking about discovery - here’s the rule, below. It’s defined and fairly narrow, nothing like civil discovery.

In fairness, before I study all of that, could you state the point that you think it supports?

It’s stated in my post.

That discovery is "defined and fairly narrow?" Common sense would tell me that it is defined, which is the goal of such laws. This lengthy quote of subsections a - n doesn't appear to support that it is "fairly narrow."

I thought you were implying an argument against my contention that discovery will be time consuming process.

Thanks for posting what you did. A couple of interesting items I found:

Many of us would like to know that, in light of the FBI's million dollar offer to Christopher Steele to continue his opposition research of Trump, only on behalf of the U.S. Government, rather than on behalf of HRC.

This one would also be interesting. I don't think that the DOJ will do this in an honest way. Then, some whistle-blower will give congress a copy of notes that were withheld, congress will call the DOJ or FBI in front of it, and they will not deny the withholding, but refuse to talk about it due to "potential ongoing investigations," or some other unverifiable excuse.

The word "discovery" narrowly defined as the turning over evidence the defendant could theoretically be accomplished in one day. I guess we all remember "My Cousin Vinny" in which the prosecutor just said, "Dahlin' could you copy all of the Sack and Suds files and have them ready for Mister . . . uh . . . Gambini to pick up this afternoon?"

But is the DOJ really going to turn over everything they have to the Trump Team, with no balking, no concealment, and no claims of implied privilege? Of course not. Discovery will be a protracted brawl, and that only the first round of the case To torture the brawl analogy, so far the DOJ has been like a prizefighter, alone in the ring shadow boxing and yelling taunts at his opponent. When Team Trump steps in the ring, it won't be a one fighter show no longer.

Along with discovery, Team Trump gets a reasonable amount of time to prepare their case, i.e. study the prepared material, interview witnesses, follow up on leads they get from the discovery, and plan strategy. The DOJ took ten months from the raid to the indictment, getting a head start on all of those activities. How much time should Team Trump be reasonably given?

 

[Snarky Sack]

It's pretty simple, Trump is a charlatan, a womanizing, misogynistic, bigoted con artist who fools people for a living. I've read his book "Art of the Deal" and it was the antithesis of everything I believed in as a Christian. He mocks people who don't agree with him, makes fun of disabled people and treats too many people with disdain and disrespect.

On top of all of that, he's said it's OK to grab women by the p, and that women want it. He whines and lies about the 2020 election being stolen and keeps repeating nonsense about missing ballots and boxes and everything else when it's already been litigated.

He lost a civil suit in which he was found liable for sexual assault. He's been impeached, indicted and I think he's gonna be found guilty of most if not all of the charges he's facing, and we haven't even touched on his attempt to sway the results in Georgia and he was largely responsible for 1/6 happening.

I actually think the American people will have sense enough not to vote for him, but I fully expect he'll claim he won the election again even when he gets 35% of the vote.

I'd just rather not have to deal with all of Trump's BS for another election cycle. When it comes to the issues, it really doesn't matter when it comes to Trump. He's a man without integrity. I can't in good conscience vote for him under any circumstances. There are a couple of Republicans I might consider voting for, but, I can safely say I won't vote for Trump, DeSantis and Ramaswamy. I doubt I'd vote for Pence. He'd have to do a lot to convince me. Hutchinson and Christie I'd give consideration to. Liz Cheney is probably who I'd like most to run for President because throughout it all, she has never wavered in her opposition to Trump. That's the kind of strong woman I can vote for.

I can absolutely promise this...if Trump gets elected, I'll gladly move to Korea where my wife is from. You can have the fascist banana republic the country will become to your heart's content at that point.

You did not outright say it, and I won't put words in your mouth. I'll just ask:

Is the upshot of what you say here, that yes, you are fine with the DOJ and FBI not allowing the American people to choose their own candidate, at least in the case of Donald Trump?

As of now, Trump is destined to win the nomination. None of the legal maneuvering that the DOJ is doing will disqualify Trump from running, no matter how it comes out. A very unlikely pre-election conviction would not make him unable to run.

Only an impeachment by the Republican controlled congress, and a removal (from eligibility) by the Senate, in which the Democrats have a majority, but not the super-majority needed for removal, would do that.

Nothing the DOJ does to stop Trump convinces his supporters of anything other than that the DOJ is out to stop Trump, and has been since 2016.

 

[MT15]

Trump’s legal team doesn’t get to interview any witnesses, if what I am reading is correct. A Trump-adjacent lawyer contended that on Twitter and was mocked for thinking that. This is a criminal trial.

Trump’s team won’t be getting nearly what you seem to think, as far as time goes. Smith is expediting discovery from what I have read, so they will have everything as soon as possible. The 11th Circuit doesn’t like long delays by either party and I think they will keep things moving.

The case isn’t difficult, it’s being described as open and shut. Trump doesn’t really seem to have much of a defense. This trial will be over before March, IMO, which is decidedly non-expert.

 

[MT15]

You did not outright say it, and I won't put words in your mouth. I'll just ask:

Is the upshot of what you say here, that yes, you are fine with the DOJ and FBI not allowing the American people to choose their own candidate, at least in the case of Donald Trump?

As of now, Trump is destined to win the nomination. None of the legal maneuvering that the DOJ is doing will disqualify Trump from running, no matter how it comes out. A very unlikely pre-election conviction would not make him unable to run.

Only an impeachment by the Democratic controlled congress, and a removal (from eligibility) by the Senate, in which the Democrats have a majority, but not the super-majority needed for removal, would do that.

Nothing the DOJ does to stop Trump convinces his supporters of anything other than that the DOJ is out to stop Trump, and has been since 2016.

Brother. You seem to think that because Trump is leading now - at this early date - his winning the nomination is fait accompli. It’s not, not by a long shot. At one point this early in a previous election cycle Rudy Giuliani was the R front runner.

How about we not worry about who is the front runner until we‘ve seen some primary results?

 

[Saintamaniac]

But is the DOJ really going to turn over everything they have to the Trump Team, with no balking, no concealment, and no furtiveness? Of course not. It will be a protracted brawl. To torture the brawl analogy, so far the DOJ has been like a boxer, alone in the ring shadow boxing and yelling taunts at his opponent. When Team Trump steps in the ring, it won't be a one fighter show no longer.

It's funny you should use the boxing analogy with DOJ as the shadow boxer. The truth is that Trump and true believers of his BS, such as yourself, are alone in a ring shadow boxing. When Jack Smith steps into the ring looking like Mike Tyson, it won't be a one fighter show. Trump's supporters and true believers, such as yourself, think they know more than the actual experts and ignore what they have to say. As Tyson has famously said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face."

Trump ain't Rocky and DOJ ain't Clubber Lain. When Jack Smith punches team trump in the face, they will be like the boxer that is knocked out cold on the floor still throwing punches.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Is the upshot of what you say here, that yes, you are fine with the DOJ and FBI not allowing the American people to choose their own candidate, at least in the case of Donald Trump?

As you know, because you explained it below, this is a bogus question on your part, because the DOJ nor the FBI can keep American's from choosing their own candidate. As you clearly explain below:

None of the legal maneuvering that the DOJ is doing will disqualify Trump from running, no matter how it comes out. A very unlikely pre-election conviction would not make him unable to run.

All of your statements and arguments are factually and logically fraudulent, as well as self-contradicting.

 

[MT15]

But is the DOJ really going to turn over everything they have to the Trump Team, with no balking, no concealment, and no claims of implied privilege? Of course not. Discovery will be a protracted brawl, and that only the first round of the case To torture the brawl analogy, so far the DOJ has been like a prizefighter, alone in the ring shadow boxing and yelling taunts at his opponent. When Team Trump steps in the ring, it won't be a one fighter show no longer.

I missed this - not often reading everything you write because so much of it is just false. Smith, IIRC, has already proposed a complete discovery with no objections. He is ready to turn everything over immediately, only delay at this point is getting Trump’s lawyers their security clearances.

 

[Saintamaniac]

From NBC:

WASHINGTON — The charges brought against President Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden are rarely prosecuted, legal experts say.

Under a plea deal reached with the U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Delaware — an office headed by Donald Trump appointee David Weiss — Hunter Biden will plead guilty to two misdemeanor charges of failing to pay taxes, which he later reimbursed. Biden also faces a felony gun charge — possession of a firearm by a person who is an “unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance” — but it is likely to be dismissed if he meets certain conditions under the plea agreement, according to court documents.

The federal gun charge, which makes it unlawful for a drug addict to possess a weapon, is a rarely used statute that is facing legal challenges and has recently been used as a catch-all charge against white supremacists.

Has the agreement been published? I wonder why no prosecution for lying on the firearms form? Is it cool for anyone to do that?

This post has been made in the wrong thread. This is the trump indictment thread and this has nothing to do with the trump indictment. Can a mod move this to the Biden tracker thread please?