Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (2 Viewers)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Saintamaniac]

anyone surprised by this?
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After his arraignment Tuesday, former President Donald Trump visited Versailles, a locally renowned Cuban restaurant in Miami's Little Havana, suggesting food would be provided for the rallying crowd of supporters who showed up.

But the Republican frontrunner did not treat his fans to any grub in the restaurant-bakery, a source with knowledge of the matter told the Miami New Times.

"It turns out no one got anything," the outlet reported.

MSN

The Trump suckers fall for it every time. He knows they will. At this point he could call all of his supporters clowns and tell them that their toilet is a secret portal to heaven and 37% of America would try to flush themselves down the toilet.

 

[Lapaz]

You should meet more Republicans. You would find that the idea of a "free lunch" is an anathema to most of them.

A lot of Republicans are wealthy and don't want to pay their taxes, so they don't want to strengthen the IRS.

 

[Snarky Sack]

You’re proving my point

What was said definitely implied “I’m buying food for everyone here”

If someone heard that and chose not to accept, because the idea of a “free lunch” is an anathema to them l, that’s their right and choice and also means that they clearly understood that the offer was for food for everyone a “free lunch”

My point was not that Republicans heard an offer of a "free lunch" and choose to reject it. My point is that a republican would not jump to the conclusion that "food for everyone!" meant "food for everyone, and I'm paying!"

Now if the person who said “food for everyone” knew good and well everyone would assume that he was going to buy food for everyone, and knew that he had zero intention of doing so but instead meant

Then that person is a heartless, cruel, deceitful and manipulative butt crevasse

Agreed, if the person really thought that. I just don't find it at all likely that Trump thought any of his supporters would have thought that.

Now, in a restaurant full of Democrats - not meaning any Democrat who happens to be on this board - I would expect that an exortation of "food for everyone!" by a political leader would lead to a rush of people ordering a meal from the top of the menu, and another one to go, and expecting not to have to pay.

I think most of them would expect the food to be "free," i.e. the restaurant doesn't charge, rather than expecting Joe Biden, for example, to pay for it. Biden would eat free also, would be their though process, in my opinion.

It's the same thought process as "forgiving" student loans, which really means forcing taxpayers to pay them off.

All the above is only my opinion, give respectfully.

 

[Snarky Sack]

A lot of Republicans are wealthy and don't want to pay their taxes, so they don't want to strengthen the IRS.

I agree with that, in part.

Wealthy Republicans do indeed want to avoid taxes. But I don't think they fear a more bloated IRS. The lawyers for the wealthy are adept at defeating the IRS. As so often, targeting the wealthy by more heavily arming the IRS, would only lead to more taxes paid by the middle class.

Middle class tax avoiders, to be sure. But it won't affect the wealthy. That's only my opinion.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Walk into a restaurant in the reddest part of the reddest county in your state yell “food for everyone” and let us know how it goes

 

[Lapaz]

If the documents were mishandled, as the prosecution alleges, their covers would not look so clean and new, whether they were passed around at drunken parties attended by foreign spies, or sat squeezed between other documents in boxes for more than a year.

Prove that the documents would not be clean? Where is the link that states that they were passed around during a drunken party?

 

[J-DONK]

A lot of Republicans are wealthy and don't want to pay their taxes, so they don't want to strengthen the IRS.

Do all the conservatives posters on this board have some kind of cognitive disease that impairs their ability to form long term memories?

Most of the US’ $800 billion in paycheck protection funds went to the richest 20%

Of the $800 billion distributed by the US as part of its paycheck protection program during the covid-19 pandemic, up to 77% of it went to business owners and shareholders in the richest 20% of the population.

qz.com

 

[Taurus]

Do all the conservatives posters on this board have some kind of cognitive disease that impairs their ability to form long term memories?

Most of the US’ $800 billion in paycheck protection funds went to the richest 20%

Of the $800 billion distributed by the US as part of its paycheck protection program during the covid-19 pandemic, up to 77% of it went to business owners and shareholders in the richest 20% of the population.

qz.com

It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Remember, every accusation is a confession.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Walk into a restaurant in the reddest part of the reddest county in your state yell “food for everyone” and let us know how it goes

I'll do it!

I live in Texas so there are a lot of red counties, so I'll have to find the most red.

I'll probably look for a red district, if you don't mind. Counties tend to look like fired eggs, with blue yolks and red whites. No pun intended with "red whites." Gerrymandering tends to divide districts by political bent much more so than counties are.

I'll try to video tape it, so I can document the results. If you don't mind, I won't risk it in a blue area.

 

[Snarky Sack]

Do all the conservatives posters on this board have some kind of cognitive disease that impairs their ability to form long term memories?

Most of the US’ $800 billion in paycheck protection funds went to the richest 20%

Of the $800 billion distributed by the US as part of its paycheck protection program during the covid-19 pandemic, up to 77% of it went to business owners and shareholders in the richest 20% of the population.

qz.com

My understanding, and I could be wrong of course, is that the idea of the Paycheck Protection Program was to give money to businesses and corporations (that tend to be owned by the wealthy) so that they could keep paying their employees to stay home.

So, theoretically, the money would go to two different groups, first to the employers and then to employees. Three, if you count the unions being able to continue pulling their dues. Four, if you count the businesses that the employees, employer and union bosses are able to continue to patronize.

It's seemed to be a win-win on paper. But now we see our nation crushed by debt, so maybe not so much.

Re-reading your article, I see your point:

The response was tremendous, the paper found. Around 94% of all eligible firms availed of the program, preserving up to million job-years of employment during and after the pandemic. (A job-year is comprised of a single job maintained over the course of one year; two people working six months apiece in a calendar year together present one job-year.) But the first $510 billion in loans failed to distinguish their recipients according to need—in part because of the pressures of the pandemic, but also because the US government had no infrastructure to conduct such targeted disbursals.

So, it was a good idea, but the government mismanaged it in a frenzy over the pandemic. Sadly, a common dynamic.

in my opinion.

 

[Lapaz]

I agree with that, in part.

Wealthy Republicans do indeed want to avoid taxes. But I don't think they fear a more bloated IRS. The lawyers for the wealthy are adept at defeating the IRS. As so often, targeting the wealthy by more heavily arming the IRS, would only lead to more taxes paid by the middle class.

Middle class tax avoiders, to be sure. But it won't affect the wealthy. That's only my opinion.

I hesitate to post this, since it may divert this discussion away from the Trump indictment, but I'll respond to this anyway, and then I leave the topic to return to the Trump indictment. When the top 1% are audited, the return on investment is much higher than the cost. I read an article on this yesterday, and the ROI is over 6 to 1. By contrast, when people below the 90th percentile, the ROI is much lower. It is the highest earners that pay the most by far when the IRS is strengthened.

The Effects of Increased Funding for the IRS

CBO estimates that portions of the Administration’s proposal to increase funding for the IRS by $80 billion over the 2022–2031 period would increase revenues by approximately $200 billion over those 10 years.

www.cbo.gov

I

 

[Snarky Sack]

Prove that the documents would not be clean?

I'm not sure that could be provable beyond common sense. What would you accept as proof?

Where is the link that states that they were passed around during a drunken party?

There is none. Apologies if I gave that impression.

I used that as an extreme worst case example to make the point. Perhaps that was a mistake.

I'll try to be more literal in the future, thanks!

 

[Snarky Sack]

I hesitate to post this, since it may divert this discussion away from the Trump indictment, but I'll respond to this anyway, and then I leave the topic to return to the Trump indictment. When the top 1% are audited, the return on investment is much higher than the cost. I read an article on this yesterday, and the ROI is over 6 to 1. By contrast, when people below the 90th percentile, the ROI is much lower. It is the highest earners that pay the most by far when the IRS is strengthened.

The Effects of Increased Funding for the IRS

CBO estimates that portions of the Administration’s proposal to increase funding for the IRS by $80 billion over the 2022–2031 period would increase revenues by approximately $200 billion over those 10 years.

www.cbo.gov

I

An interesting post, obviously fully thought out.

But, I agree, let's get back to the Trump indictment. I have something that relates reasonably directly to it.

 

[MT15]

Hillary was allowed to pick and choose what she returned.

The rest, she bleach bit and hammered.

you can repeat this lie a million times, but it will never be true.

 

[MT15]

I agree that poster is frustrated.

It's normal to be angry at a person who you want to blame for your frustration. Especially if the frustration comes from the other person using your own technique and finding out you can dish it out but cannot take it.

You are so off base here, it’s actually kinda funny.

 

[Lapaz]

Trump is openly saying he will weaponize the justice department if he gets elected. This would destroy this country.

The Radical Strategy Behind Trump’s Promise to ‘Go After’ Biden (Published 2023)

Conservatives with close ties to Donald J. Trump are laying out a “paradigm-shifting” legal rationale to erase the Justice Department’s independence from the president.

www.nytimes.com

When Donald J. Trump responded to his latest indictment by promising to appoint a special prosecutor if he’s re-elected to “go after” President Biden and his family, he signaled that a second Trump term would fully jettison the post-Watergate norm of Justice Department independence.
“I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the United States of America, Joe Biden, and the entire Biden crime family,” Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., on Tuesday night after his arraignment earlier that day in Miami. “I will totally obliterate the Deep State.”

Mr. Trump’s message was that the Justice Department charged him only because he is Mr. Biden’s political opponent, so he would invert that supposed politicization. In reality, under Attorney General Merrick Garland, two Trump-appointed prosecutors are already investigating Mr. Biden’s handling of classified documents and the financial dealings of his son, Hunter.

But by suggesting the current prosecutors investigating the Bidens were not “real,” Mr. Trump appeared to be promising his supporters that he would appoint an ally who would bring charges against his political enemies regardless of the facts.

The naked politics infusing Mr. Trump’s headline-generating threat underscored something significant. In his first term, Mr. Trump gradually ramped up pressure on the Justice Department, eroding its traditional independence from White House political control. He is now unabashedly saying he will throw that effort into overdrive if he returns to power.

...............

Trump pledges to appoint special prosecutor to 'go after' Biden family

www.politico.com

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Interesting. That was not my experience with classified cover sheets, but I will take your word for it.

It's most people's experience. Things properly packed in boxes that are properly stored tend to be just fine.

Agreement plus a mild compliment. Thank you!

If you take "you stopped lying, cool" as a compliment...

I'm glad to see that you recognize the possibility that the documents were not classified.

I never said that they were 100% guaranteed to be classified. I said it was the safest assumption.

It was an analogy, not a giant leap. I used to have a defense of the use of analogy in my sig, but I felt that it was a bit snarky, so I removed it.

No, it was a giant leap. You went from "maybe those redacted documents aren't classified" to "maybe we should lock up everyone accused of a violent crime in a full display of shirtting on our Constitution and criminal justice system." It was an absolute crap comparison and anyone with the barest hint of intellect and honesty can see that.

Agreed.

I'm not sure what you could mean by that. You may explain if you like. But that is your choice.

It is my belief that the way you carry yourself here will either lead you to leave because everyone eventually gets sick of your crap and blocks you or you violate so many rules that you get banned, much like most far right posters before you.

 

[Snarky Sack]

DeSantis asked about the Trump indictment.



His response must have been scripted in advance and well rehearsed. He talked about the double tiered system of justice, and how he was going to clean house, directly promising "a new FBI Director on day one," along with other unspecified terminations.

Never mentioned Trump, nor the indictment specifically, but says that he, DeSantis, will be the president in January 2025. DeSantis may end up being the chief beneficiary of the Trump indictment. Given the situation in the nation, I believe that Trump's negatives are the only thing that could save the Biden presidency.