Trump Indictment ( includes NY AG and Fed documents case ) (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

Former President D. Trump has been indicted by a New York Grand Jury. There will be much to talk about on this topic because this is just the first step in a lengthy process.
Possibly it is worthy of its own thread here rather than posting about Trump's indictment in already existing threads?
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This 3/31/23 story might get the ball rolling....
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Manhattan’s DA wanted a Friday Trump arrest. Trump’s team said no.

Secret Service needed more time to prepare, according to the ex-president’s legal team.

www.yahoo.com

 

[RobF]

Ok if you think Smith is an inferior officer then

“but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.”

There currently is no federal statute giving the AG the appointment power. That last piece f legislation for that purpose expired in 1999.

As I understand it, you now have the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 28, part 600 (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-28/chapter-VI/part-600?toc=1) which derives its legal authority from 28 U.S. Code § 510 - Delegation of authority (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/510) and 28 U.S. Code § 515 - Authority for legal proceedings; commission, oath, and salary for special attorneys (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/515).

 

[Sendai]

As I understand it, you now have the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 28, part 600 (https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-28/chapter-VI/part-600?toc=1) which derives its legal authority from 28 U.S. Code § 510 - Delegation of authority (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/510) and 28 U.S. Code § 515 - Authority for legal proceedings; commission, oath, and salary for special attorneys (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/515).

“The Attorney General may from time to time make such provisions as he considers appropriate authorizing the performance by any other officer, employee, or agency of the Department of Justice of any function of the Attorney General.”

Smith was neither an officer, employee, or agency of the department of justice.

If Garland brought him in as an assistant attorney then he would have been an employee.

 

[RobF]

Smith was neither an officer, employee, or agency of the department of justice.

That would appear to be entirely wrong. Read the links, and see also, 'Special Counsel's Office - Jack Smith' under https://www.justice.gov/agencies/chart .

 

[Sendai]

That would appear to be entirely wrong. Read the links, and see also, 'Special Counsel's Office - Jack Smith' under https://www.justice.gov/agencies/chart .

at the time Smith was appointed by the AG he was a prosecutor with The Hague. That is not an officer, employee, or agency as required by 28 515.

An entry in the org chart doesn’t make it so.

 

[faceman]

Jack Smith is now legally special council and has appealed Cannons ruling to the 11th circuit.

 

[RobF]

at the time Smith was appointed by the AG he was a prosecutor with The Hague. That is not an officer, employee, or agency as required by 28 515.

An entry in the org chart doesn’t make it so.

Are you seriously trying to argue that he's not an officer, employee, or agent of the DoJ because he wasn't one before he was appointed as one?

Seriously?

 

[Sendai]

That would appear to be entirely wrong. Read the links, and see also, 'Special Counsel's Office - Jack Smith' under https://www.justice.gov/agencies/chart .

28 U.S. Code § 510 - Delegation of authority​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
The Attorney General may from time to time make such provisions as he considers appropriate authorizing the performance by any other officer, employee, or agency of the Department of Justice of any function of the Attorney General.
(Added Pub. L. 89–554, § 4(c), Sept. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 612.)


In order to qualify under this designation you must already be a member of The DOJ. Smith was not a member of the DOJ when appointed. He was a prosecutor with The Hague.

 

[J-DONK]

28 U.S. Code § 510 - Delegation of authority​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
The Attorney General may from time to time make such provisions as he considers appropriate authorizing the performance by any other officer, employee, or agency of the Department of Justice of any function of the Attorney General.
(Added Pub. L. 89–554, § 4(c), Sept. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 612.)


In order to qualify under this designation you must already be a member of The DOJ. Smith was not a member of the DOJ when appointed. He was a prosecutor with The Hague.

Sendai, lives in a world were you delegate authority and duties to employees before you hire them.

 

[Sendai]

Sendai, lives in a world were you delegate authority and duties to employees before you hire them.

No, the regulation says that in order to be appointed, you must already be an officer, employee, or agency within the DOJ. Smith was not in the DOJ and, therefore, not eligible to be appointed und er this regulation.

 

[J-DONK]

No, the regulation says that in order to be appointed, you must already be an officer, employee, or agency within the DOJ. Smith was not in the DOJ and, therefore, not eligible to be appointed und er this regulation.

You really think he wasn't hired before he was appointed?

 

[RobF]

No, the regulation says that in order to be appointed, you must already be an officer, employee, or agency within the DOJ. Smith was not in the DOJ and, therefore, not eligible to be appointed und er this regulation.

That's because that's the law about delegation of authority, not appointment. Why are you ignoring the (previously linked!) full regulations and related laws including the ones about commissioning?

Do you think if you pretend you can't see them, no-one else can? Because that's not how that works.

Let me put it this way, what you're doing here is like claiming there's no right of any kind to bear arms in the constitution because it's not covered by the first amendment.

The fact is, these regulations and laws have served as the legal basis for this for over two decades. If there is a flaw in them - which is highly debatable - it's not going to be of the glaringly obvious, "Oopsy, this says we can only hire people we've already hired! D"oh!" nature.

 

[Optimus Prime]

US Attorney General Merrick Garland has torn into federal Judge Aileen Cannon over her unprecedented decision to throw out the classified documents case against Donald Trump.

In an interview with NBC News on Tuesday night, Garland slammed Cannon’s ruling from earlier this month and suggested she does not understand the law, after she ruled that the appointment of a special counsel to oversee the case was unconstitutional.

“For more than 20 years I was a federal judge,” Garland said.

“Do I look like somebody who would make that basic mistake about the law? I don’t think so.”

Two years ago, Garland invoked his power as head of the Justice Department to appoint Jack Smith as special counsel to oversee the investigation, and eventual indictment, into Trump’s alleged illegal retention of classified documents after leaving the White House.

An attorney general has the power to appoint a special counsel to investigate, and potentially prosecute, a case independently from the Justice Department when there may be a conflict of interest.…..

Merrick Garland tears into judge who dismissed Trump’s classified docs case

Merrick Garland slammed Cannon’s ruling and suggested she does not understand the law, after she ruled that the appointment of a special counsel to oversee the case was unconstitutional

www.independent.co.uk

 

[LA - L.A.]

Cannon’s opinion

We'll have to wait and see what the appellant judges think of Cannon's opinion before we know how unsound it is or isn't.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The DOJ can’t set rules and regulations that circumvent the constitution. The constitution is clear on appointments.

Yes, the Constitution is very clear. It's Canon's lone wolf, outlying misinterpretation that is very murky.

 

[LA - L.A.]

There currently is no federal statute giving the AG the appointment power. That last piece f legislation for that purpose expired in 1999.

Actually there is a federal statue that gives both the AG and an acting AG the authority to appoint a special counsel.

That's been pointed out and cited to you several times. You dishonestly keep ignoring it just to repeat the same false claims.

 

[FullMonte]

No, the regulation says that in order to be appointed, you must already be an officer, employee, or agency within the DOJ. Smith was not in the DOJ and, therefore, not eligible to be appointed und er this regulation.

Actually, the regulation specifically states

“The Special Counsel shall be selected from outside the United States Government.”
28CFR600.3(a) Qualifications of the Soecial Counsel

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

If the appeals court overturns her decision, does it go back to her or would it have to go somewhere else?

 

[DaveXA]

If the appeals court overturns her decision, does it go back to her or would it have to go somewhere else?

I think it would depend on how the 11th Circuit rules. My guess is 11th Circuit overturns Cannon decision, then SCOTUS remands it back to the 11th Circuit. I'd be surprised if the Court overturns the Circuit's decision, but if they do, then the case is over and Cannon's decision stands.