Trans athletes (1 Viewer)

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Lazybones

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Should a man who changed himself to a woman be able to compete with ACTUAL woman in sporting competitions?

I searched and couldn’t find where a woman became a man and starting winning at any sport (I may be wrong)

At some point will there be a trans competition at the Olympics?

 

lurk

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There are standards for this that have been created by some of the sports regulating bodies. They usually involve the amount of time someone has been on hormone replacement therapy and the measurable levels of said hormone vs. the opposite hormone. Similarly, there have been biological women who have had issues because of their overproduction of testosterone. There was a recent notable case involving a runner (who I believe was intersex, if I'm not mistaken?). I'll look it up later if nobody posts it for me.
 

GMRfellowtraveller

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Should a man who changed himself to a woman be able to compete with ACTUAL woman in sporting competitions?

I searched and couldn’t find where a woman became a man and starting winning at any sport (I may be wrong)

At some point will there be a trans competition at the Olympics?

i think eventually we'll move away from an evaluation of biological plumbing and more to some hormonal or chemical markers
 

Ayo

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Similarly, there have been biological women who have had issues because of their overproduction of testosterone. There was a recent notable case involving a runner (who I believe was intersex, if I'm not mistaken?). I'll look it up later if nobody posts it for me.
Caster Semenya. Intersex not confirmed. It was reported by outlets in Australia and the UK, but with no verification. It was reported as "likely."

Her body produces more tesosterone which gives her an advantage in shorter distant races, because of the way her body handles oxygen. Due to a genetic benefit, Michael Phelps's body also handles oxygen differently - he produces less than half the lactic acid of his rivals, so he has an inherent advantage to how long his muscles can work. To say nothing of other genetic advantages he has due to his physiology. He was born to swim.

I think this can be a difficult area to navigate - where some cases strike me as cut and dry, there are others that are somewhat grayer.
 

wardorican

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Other than what has been stated, I'm curious if it would just be easier to create a third group. Mens, women's, trans.

There will never be a perfect solution.
 

samiam5211

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Other than what has been stated, I'm curious if it would just be easier to create a third group. Mens, women's, trans.

There will never be a perfect solution.
and would you need two trans categories?

Athletics is probably the most complicated part of trans rights.
 

crosswatt

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Moving into uncharted territory, and probably going to far into it, full equality would mean removing the male/female classes in competitive events completely. I could see this implemented by using a weight class system similar to boxing/wrestling. Will actually be interesting to see where this all leads one day.
 

Dadsdream

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They don't have these kinds of problems in the land of our good friends the Saudis.
 

SystemShock

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Moving into uncharted territory, and probably going to far into it, full equality would mean removing the male/female classes in competitive events completely. I could see this implemented by using a weight class system similar to boxing/wrestling. Will actually be interesting to see where this all leads one day.
When it comes to sports, as long as people are born with either XX or XY chromosomes (other rare combinations not withstanding) there will never be such a thing as "full equality". When it comes to biology, there is no such thing as "all men are created equal".

We have Paralympics for people with physical challenges.
We have special Olympics for people with cognitive challenges.
Have TransOlympics/Genderlympics and they can figure out how they want to compete.
 

wardorican

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When it comes to sports, as long as people are born with either XX or XY chromosomes (other rare combinations not withstanding) there will never be such a thing as "full equality". When it comes to biology, there is no such thing as "all men are created equal".

We have Paralympics for people with physical challenges.
We have special Olympics for people with cognitive challenges.
Have TransOlympics/Genderlympics and they can figure out how they want to compete.
The problem is that it isn't just the Olympics. Its grade school, middle school, high school sports, then collegiate and pro.

But as GMR said, we are talking about a few dozen or so at high levels. Maybe more at primary/secondary school. It becomes an Interesting issue of exclusion vs fairness.
 

SystemShock

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The problem is that it isn't just the Olympics. Its grade school, middle school, high school sports, then collegiate and pro.
I mentioned the Olympics as a high level example. There are certainly athletic organizations at all levels that cater to people with differences.

But as GMR said, we are talking about a few dozen or so at high levels. Maybe more at primary/secondary school. It becomes an Interesting issue of exclusion vs fairness.
Not to me. As I have said many times, first and foremost, I want to keep the people who are born with ovaries protected.
 

JimEverett

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Caster Semenya. Intersex not confirmed. It was reported by outlets in Australia and the UK, but with no verification. It was reported as "likely."

Her body produces more tesosterone which gives her an advantage in shorter distant races, because of the way her body handles oxygen. Due to a genetic benefit, Michael Phelps's body also handles oxygen differently - he produces less than half the lactic acid of his rivals, so he has an inherent advantage to how long his muscles can work. To say nothing of other genetic advantages he has due to his physiology. He was born to swim.

I think this can be a difficult area to navigate - where some cases strike me as cut and dry, there are others that are somewhat grayer.
Is the latic acid thing relevant though? We don't separate athletes based on lactic acid production while we do on sex. Or maybe you are saying that classifying based on sex is as arbitrary or not arbitrary as classifying based on lactic production - or any other known benefits to athletic competition?
 

Dadsdream

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So, where do the East German "women" Olympians fit into all this?
Really, the resulting health problems they've had are absolutely horrible and I do feel sorry for the ones who've survived. Not all of them did.


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TheRealTruth

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I think this is one area that just has to be looked at on a factual level. Without delving into feelings or hyperbole. There is no doubt some will get offended by a transperson competing. As well as the fact that a man who has transitioned to a woman will have clear advantages in a plethora of athletic events. To deny either is to wear blinders so to speak.
 

JimEverett

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I just want to point out, because I havent seen it mentioned yet - "unfairness" works the othercway as well if you insist on people competing accordingvto their chromosones.

There was that wrestler from Texas who wanted to compete as male but the district or state would not allow becquse he was born a girl. But he hadd transition therapy and looked like a young man.
 

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