The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (1 Viewer)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    Nobody conspired in an insurrection to try and get Hillary Clinton into office over Trump. Nobody.

    To answer your question, Yes she did. Stacey Abrams accepted that she lost. You've lost this argument.


    She and Hillary had about the same concession, 'it wasn't fair'.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/apr/20/stacey-abrams-refuses-concede-lost-election-perpet/

    Asked by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, “Yes or no, do you still maintain the 2018 election was stolen?,” Mrs. Abrams squirmed.

    “It was stolen from the voters of Georgia,” she replied. “We do not know what they would have done because not every eligible Georgian was permitted to participate fully in the election.”


    Mrs. Abrams continued: “Brian Kemp won under the rules that were in place. … I will continue to disagree with the system until it is fixed.”
     
    She and Hillary had about the same concession, 'it wasn't fair'.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/apr/20/stacey-abrams-refuses-concede-lost-election-perpet/

    Asked by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, “Yes or no, do you still maintain the 2018 election was stolen?,” Mrs. Abrams squirmed.

    “It was stolen from the voters of Georgia,” she replied. “We do not know what they would have done because not every eligible Georgian was permitted to participate fully in the election.”


    Mrs. Abrams continued: “Brian Kemp won under the rules that were in place. … I will continue to disagree with the system until it is fixed.”

    Like I said "Fair" vs "Legitimate".

    Like pass interference wasn't reviewable in the NFCCG. The Rams win wasn't fair, but it was legitimate.
     
    She and Hillary had about the same concession, 'it wasn't fair'.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/apr/20/stacey-abrams-refuses-concede-lost-election-perpet/

    Asked by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, “Yes or no, do you still maintain the 2018 election was stolen?,” Mrs. Abrams squirmed.

    “It was stolen from the voters of Georgia,” she replied. “We do not know what they would have done because not every eligible Georgian was permitted to participate fully in the election.”


    Mrs. Abrams continued: “Brian Kemp won under the rules that were in place. … I will continue to disagree with the system until it is fixed.”

    And? Sound like she accepted the results, but believes the election rules weren't fair to the voters of Georgia. That's mile apart from what Trump and his republican lackeys were clamming about the 2020 election. And their response to their grievances was light years apart as well. While Trump attempted an insurrection and instigated a mob to attack the Capitol, Abrams registered more voters and won 2 Senate seats for Democrats. Which one sounds authoritarian and which one sounds democratic to you?

    You should be asking yourself why you don't agree with Abrams? She's right, you know.
     
    I thought Trump was not y'alls president?

    Did Stacey Abrams concede her defeat? She didn't. So yeah, 'both sides' garabage is absolutely at play here.
    He wasn't our President, he was our national animal control officer, and were a bit peeved that he taught the pack to bark by day and bay at the moon by night instead of properly shushing them.

    ;)
     
    And? Sound like she accepted the results, but believes the election rules weren't fair to the voters of Georgia. That's mile apart from what Trump and his republican lackeys were clamming about the 2020 election. And their response to their grievances was light years apart as well. While Trump attempted an insurrection and instigated a mob to attack the Capitol, Abrams registered more voters and won 2 Senate seats for Democrats. Which one sounds authoritarian and which one sounds democratic to you?

    You should be asking yourself why you don't agree with Abrams? She's right, you know.
    Why is Abrams right in your opinion?
     
    Another Big Lie proponent trying to run states elections
    =====================

    Last September, Donald Trump released a statementthrough his Save America website. “It is my great honor to endorse a true warrior,” he proclaimed, “a patriot who has fought for our country, who was willing to say what few others had the courage to say, who has my Complete and Total Endorsement.”

    Former US presidents usually reserve their most gushing praise – replete with Capital Letters – for global allies or people they are promoting for high office. A candidate for the US Senate, perhaps, or someone vying to become governor of one of the biggest states.

    Trump by contrast was heaping plaudits on an individual running for an elected post that a year ago most people had never heard of, let alone cared about. He was endorsing Mark Finchem, a Republican lawmaker from Tucson, in his bid to become Arizona’s secretary of state.

    Until Trump’s endorsement, Finchem, like the relatively obscure position for which he is now standing, was scarcely known outside politically informed Arizona circles.

    Today he is a celebrity on the “Save America” circuit, one of a coterie of local politicians who have been thrown into the national spotlight by Trump as he lays the foundations for a possible ground attack on democracy in the 2024 presidential election.

    The role of secretary of state is critical to the smooth workings and integrity of elections in many states, Arizona included. The post holder is the chief election officer, with powers to certify election results, vet the legal status of candidates and approve infrastructure such as voting machines……..

     
    Another Big Lie proponent trying to run states elections
    =====================

    Last September, Donald Trump released a statementthrough his Save America website. “It is my great honor to endorse a true warrior,” he proclaimed, “a patriot who has fought for our country, who was willing to say what few others had the courage to say, who has my Complete and Total Endorsement.”

    Former US presidents usually reserve their most gushing praise – replete with Capital Letters – for global allies or people they are promoting for high office. A candidate for the US Senate, perhaps, or someone vying to become governor of one of the biggest states.

    Trump by contrast was heaping plaudits on an individual running for an elected post that a year ago most people had never heard of, let alone cared about. He was endorsing Mark Finchem, a Republican lawmaker from Tucson, in his bid to become Arizona’s secretary of state.

    Until Trump’s endorsement, Finchem, like the relatively obscure position for which he is now standing, was scarcely known outside politically informed Arizona circles.

    Today he is a celebrity on the “Save America” circuit, one of a coterie of local politicians who have been thrown into the national spotlight by Trump as he lays the foundations for a possible ground attack on democracy in the 2024 presidential election.

    The role of secretary of state is critical to the smooth workings and integrity of elections in many states, Arizona included. The post holder is the chief election officer, with powers to certify election results, vet the legal status of candidates and approve infrastructure such as voting machines……..

    Sigh. I saw the picture with the link to the Guardian story. Why do these azzhats have to wear cowboy hats? They look like idiots which simply reinforces their ideological idiocy.
     
    Sigh. I saw the picture with the link to the Guardian story. Why do these azzhats have to wear cowboy hats? They look like idiots which simply reinforces their ideological idiocy.
    Just the way that cowboy hats are part of the Arizona politician uniform, a Sharpie Marker in the shirt pocket is part of the uniform of a common sheet metal worker.

    When I was working as a tin bender for a while in Montana, and always had that permanent black Sharpie marker in my shirt pocket, I would write "Free Cowboy Hats" on those paper toilet seat cover dispensers in public restrooms.

    I have a nice hand for penmanship when it comes to labeling things. .
     
    Another Big Lie proponent trying to run states elections
    =====================

    Last September, Donald Trump released a statementthrough his Save America website. “It is my great honor to endorse a true warrior,” he proclaimed, “a patriot who has fought for our country, who was willing to say what few others had the courage to say, who has my Complete and Total Endorsement.”

    Former US presidents usually reserve their most gushing praise – replete with Capital Letters – for global allies or people they are promoting for high office. A candidate for the US Senate, perhaps, or someone vying to become governor of one of the biggest states.

    Trump by contrast was heaping plaudits on an individual running for an elected post that a year ago most people had never heard of, let alone cared about. He was endorsing Mark Finchem, a Republican lawmaker from Tucson, in his bid to become Arizona’s secretary of state.

    Until Trump’s endorsement, Finchem, like the relatively obscure position for which he is now standing, was scarcely known outside politically informed Arizona circles.

    Today he is a celebrity on the “Save America” circuit, one of a coterie of local politicians who have been thrown into the national spotlight by Trump as he lays the foundations for a possible ground attack on democracy in the 2024 presidential election.

    The role of secretary of state is critical to the smooth workings and integrity of elections in many states, Arizona included. The post holder is the chief election officer, with powers to certify election results, vet the legal status of candidates and approve infrastructure such as voting machines……..

    Then Dems will act all shocked when Trump is certified the winner in October of 2024.
     
    Then Dems will act all shocked when Trump is certified the winner in October of 2024.
    Let's hope he gets convicted of something and the 14th Amendment comes into play. There is contention whether or not this applies to someone running for president though.

    “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”

    I'd say that "any office" and "or as an officer of the United States" would include the presidency. Those saying it doesn't apply to the president use just the first line not mentioning specifically POTUS as their reasoning. The rest of the amendment seems to fit though.
     
    Let's hope he gets convicted of something and the 14th Amendment comes into play. There is contention whether or not this applies to someone running for president though.



    I'd say that "any office" and "or as an officer of the United States" would include the presidency. Those saying it doesn't apply to the president use just the first line not mentioning specifically POTUS as their reasoning. The rest of the amendment seems to fit though.

    Agreed. I would add that POTUS is the commander-in-chief, which technically makes it a military office as well.
     
    Do either of you really think such a quibble would stop them after they've certified Trump the winner in October?
    These are the kinds of people who'd elect a slate of Palin/Greene, then have Palin pardon Trump, Greene resigns, Palin names Trump VP, Palin resigns, Trump becomes Pres. then appoints Palin as VP while Greene becomes Secretary of State.
     
    Personally, i don't think the Senate would approve Trump to be VP, even if the Republicans have the majority. I think there would be enough Republicans who would vote no. All it would take was a couple, and we know who the are.
     
    Do either of you really think such a quibble would stop them after they've certified Trump the winner in October?
    These are the kinds of people who'd elect a slate of Palin/Greene, then have Palin pardon Trump, Greene resigns, Palin names Trump VP, Palin resigns, Trump becomes Pres. then appoints Palin as VP while Greene becomes Secretary of State.
    That's why they need to stop him before he can even start. Don't even let him get to the escalators this time around. If he's deemed "illegal" to run for office (oh, what fun that meltdown would be) in 2022, who cares what he wants or does in October of 2024?
     
    Personally, i don't think the Senate would approve Trump to be VP, even if the Republicans have the majority. I think there would be enough Republicans who would vote no. All it would take was a couple, and we know who the are.
    I think the whole blasted theory is but cargo being shipped aboard the good sailing ship Far Fetched.
     
    Ha!
    =========================
    Mark Meadows, who grew up in Florida, moved to North Carolina in the nineteen-eighties and opened Aunt D’s, a sandwich shop in Highlands. He later sold the restaurant and started a real-estate company with a line in vacation properties. (He showed a few to my parents, in the nineties.) He became active in local Republican politics, and, in 2012, ran for Congress and won, going on to represent North Carolina’s Eleventh District until March, 2020, when he resigned the seat to become President Donald Trump’s chief of staff.

    Earlier that month, he sold his twenty-two-hundred-square-foot home in Sapphire. He and his wife, Debbie, also had a condo in Virginia, near Washington, D.C. But, as the summer passed and the election neared, Meadows had not yet purchased a new residence in what had been his home state. On September 19th, about three weeks before North Carolina’s voter-registration deadline for the general election, Meadows filed his paperwork.

    On a line that asked for his residential address—“where you physically live,” the form instructs—Meadows wrote down the address of a fourteen-by-sixty-two-foot mobile home in Scaly Mountain. He listed his move-in date for this address as the following day, September 20th.

    Meadows does not own this property and never has. It is not clear that he has ever spent a single night there. (He did not respond to a request for comment.) The previous owner, who asked that we not use her name, now lives in Florida. “That was just a summer home,” she told me, when I called her up the other day. She seemed surprised to learn that the residence was listed on the Meadowses’ forms.

    The property sits in the southern Appalachian mountains, at about four thousand feet, in the bend of a quiet road above a creek in Macon County. She and her husband bought it in 1985. “We’d come up there for three to four months when my husband was living,” she said. Her husband died several years ago, and the house sat mostly unused for some time afterward, she said, because she had “nobody to go up there with anymore.”

    She only rented it out twice, she told me. The first renter, she said, was Debbie Meadows, who, according to the former owner, reserved the house for two months at some point within the past few years—she couldn’t remember exactly when—but only spent one or two nights there. The Meadowses’ kids had visited the place, too, she said. The former owner was in Florida at the time, but her neighbors, the Talleys, whom she described as friends of the Meadowses’, debriefed her later. As for Mark Meadows, she said, “He did not come. He’s never spent a night in there.”................




     
    Ha!
    =========================
    Mark Meadows, who grew up in Florida, moved to North Carolina in the nineteen-eighties and opened Aunt D’s, a sandwich shop in Highlands. He later sold the restaurant and started a real-estate company with a line in vacation properties. (He showed a few to my parents, in the nineties.) He became active in local Republican politics, and, in 2012, ran for Congress and won, going on to represent North Carolina’s Eleventh District until March, 2020, when he resigned the seat to become President Donald Trump’s chief of staff.

    Earlier that month, he sold his twenty-two-hundred-square-foot home in Sapphire. He and his wife, Debbie, also had a condo in Virginia, near Washington, D.C. But, as the summer passed and the election neared, Meadows had not yet purchased a new residence in what had been his home state. On September 19th, about three weeks before North Carolina’s voter-registration deadline for the general election, Meadows filed his paperwork.

    On a line that asked for his residential address—“where you physically live,” the form instructs—Meadows wrote down the address of a fourteen-by-sixty-two-foot mobile home in Scaly Mountain. He listed his move-in date for this address as the following day, September 20th.

    Meadows does not own this property and never has. It is not clear that he has ever spent a single night there. (He did not respond to a request for comment.) The previous owner, who asked that we not use her name, now lives in Florida. “That was just a summer home,” she told me, when I called her up the other day. She seemed surprised to learn that the residence was listed on the Meadowses’ forms.

    The property sits in the southern Appalachian mountains, at about four thousand feet, in the bend of a quiet road above a creek in Macon County. She and her husband bought it in 1985. “We’d come up there for three to four months when my husband was living,” she said. Her husband died several years ago, and the house sat mostly unused for some time afterward, she said, because she had “nobody to go up there with anymore.”

    She only rented it out twice, she told me. The first renter, she said, was Debbie Meadows, who, according to the former owner, reserved the house for two months at some point within the past few years—she couldn’t remember exactly when—but only spent one or two nights there. The Meadowses’ kids had visited the place, too, she said. The former owner was in Florida at the time, but her neighbors, the Talleys, whom she described as friends of the Meadowses’, debriefed her later. As for Mark Meadows, she said, “He did not come. He’s never spent a night in there.”................






    He should catch charges just like anyone else would for intentionally lying about their residence in order to vote.
     
    He won’t. They never prosecute politicians who lie about their residences. The 2020 sitting VP put down the Indiana Governor’s residence as his home address, IIRC, so that he could vote in Indiana despite owning no property there and not residing there for over 4 years. They did nothing.
     

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