The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (2 Viewers)

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.

www.politico.com

Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.

www.ncsl.org

Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Louisiana is no longer one of the 17 states that are merely supporting the attempt by Texas to disenfranchise millions of voters who voted against the king. It is one of six states who have now formally intervened as parties. Cool, cool, cool.

 

[DaveXA]

Louisiana is no longer one of the 17 states that are merely supporting the attempt by Texas to disenfranchise millions of voters who voted against the king. It is one of six states who have now formally intervened as parties. Cool, cool, cool.

When will SCOTUS be able to respond to the complaint? I wouldn't think they'll even take the case. Would they do the same thing they did when they rejected the PA case?

 

[TaylorB]

This question has no good answers, since Trump is currently living in his own fact-free, Covid-free reality.. He knows that if he loses his Presidential powers, he’ll be prosecuted by the state of NY, which as we all know by know is immune from pardons.. He realizes that his ‘empire’ will start to crumble on Jan 21st.. As much as it pains me to attempt to think like Trump, I think if i were in his shoes, i would do ANYTHING to maintain power.. he is exactly the type who would rather bring the country and the world down with him if he knows he’s going down- and he does know.. I wouldnt put one thing past him if his legal Hail Marys fail- launching nukes or any other worst case scenarios you can imagine.. We are in a very dangerous time folks, buckle up.

We're already getting a good preview of his exit strategy. He'll pass out broad pardons for everyone in his circle. He'll almost certainly try to pardon himself, or have Pence pardon him. He'll gift foreign policy to his buddies in the Middle East in hopes that it will enrich him later. He'll keep using the rhetoric that got him into power so that he maintains a grip on his party as long as possible. He'll squeeze every last dollar he can out of his base to help fund his legal defense.

As stupid as he is, I think he understands that starting a nuclear war is probably not in his long term best interests. He's been more than willing to go along with Israel and the Sunni Arab nations in isolating Iran and escalating tensions, but he's not so much a "Dr. Evil-hold-the-world-ransom" villain as he is just a narcissistic mega grifter. If he really thinks he'll go to prison the rest of his life, he's more likely to seek asylum somewhere than he is to just blow it all up.

The foreign policy gifts to his buddies are scary, and certainly carry the risk of escalating things with a nuclear superpower, but fundamentally, I highly doubt he wants a nuclear war with Iran. Wars are expensive and he hasn't found a way to profit off of them yet. As long as his grift involves laundering foreign cash through his hotels, condos, and golf courses, I think we'll survive.

 

[wardorican]

Ben Sasse on Paxton's lawsuit...

Sasse has always been a lot of talk against Trump. No action.

Other than a couple key issues, it is hard to know what he stands for.

 

[MT15]

We're already getting a good preview of his exit strategy. He'll pass out broad pardons for everyone in his circle. He'll almost certainly try to pardon himself, or have Pence pardon him. He'll gift foreign policy to his buddies in the Middle East in hopes that it will enrich him later. He'll keep using the rhetoric that got him into power so that he maintains a grip on his party as long as possible. He'll squeeze every last dollar he can out of his base to help fund his legal defense.

As stupid as he is, I think he understands that starting a nuclear war is probably not in his long term best interests. He's been more than willing to go along with Israel and the Sunni Arab nations in isolating Iran and escalating tensions, but he's not so much a "Dr. Evil-hold-the-world-ransom" villain as he is just a narcissistic mega grifter. If he really thinks he'll go to prison the rest of his life, he's more likely to seek asylum somewhere than he is to just blow it all up.

The foreign policy gifts to his buddies are scary, and certainly carry the risk of escalating things with a nuclear superpower, but fundamentally, I highly doubt he wants a nuclear war with Iran. Wars are expensive and he hasn't found a way to profit off of them yet. As long as his grift involves laundering foreign cash through his hotels, condos, and golf courses, I think we'll survive.

They are certainly telegraphing another scenario, domestic violence to the point where Trump declares martial law and attempts to get Congress to intervene and seat alternate electors. Or he would try to declare the election void due to widespread civil unrest, and he would try to schedule a “do-over election”.

We are much closer to the brink than I care to be, tbh. The recklessness of the Republican party in letting this go this far is gob smacking.

 

[insidejob]

Sasse has always been a lot of talk against Trump. No action.

Other than a couple key issues, it is hard to know what he stands for.

Yeah but he's all folksy too. He says a "fella" is looking for a pardon. While I agree that he's (lately) talked a good game by speaking out against Trump, at the same time it's hard to see what he could've really done to make an iota of difference. With Trump's grip over the GOP at large, people who've spoken out against him and never supported him a la Mittens, he just gets the whole country to think of them as RINOs and neuters them in doing so. The most popular GOP members are the ones who vocally support him and his cons.

 

[bdb13]

Hadn't thought of it but yeah, definitely similar in nature to another cult and its leader

 

[MT15]

You just cannot make this stuff up.

 

[Neworleansfan]

You just cannot make this stuff up.

Is Lin Wood a deep undercover Dem?

 

[MT15]

This guy is clarifying what Trump is doing.

 

[insidejob]

 

[efil4]

This guy is clarifying what Trump is doing.

so they have now changed tack, seeing as they cant undo the votes, to ask SCOTUS to simply nullify the election because in several states ( the R losing ones ) they claim the receiving/counting of ballots AFTER Nov 3 was in violation of the federal code?

I see this ALL THE TIME. Construction suits. We are suing everyone involved for everything...lets see what sticks.

 

[TaylorB]

They are certainly telegraphing another scenario, domestic violence to the point where Trump declares martial law and attempts to get Congress to intervene and seat alternate electors. Or he would try to declare the election void due to widespread civil unrest, and he would try to schedule a “do-over election”.

We are much closer to the brink than I care to be, tbh. The recklessness of the Republican party in letting this go this far is gob smacking.

If I'm projecting over-confidence, it's because Trump is getting absolutely dusted in court, and I've seen no indication that this is going to change at SCOTUS. None of this means I'm comfortable with the rhetoric that's coming out of the right, and there's no *political* nuclear option I'd put past Trump or his enablers. We're far too close to the brink already. No doubt.

Perhaps I haven't been plugged in enough to understand the prospect of a broad declaration of martial law, but because states are certifying their elections despite pressure from Trump, it seems that overturning the result outside SCOTUS -- including some broad invocation of martial law -- would require some sort of military intervention in order to be successful, right? Trump is commander-in-chief, but we already saw him test the limits of this over the summer, only to have been met by forceful resistance, and outright defiance, by his subordinates. I am skeptical that such a plan would get its wheels off the ground. If I'm being too dismissive of this, I want to know what I'm missing (to be clear, I have an infant and a very heavy workload so I am certainly missing a lot).

 

[Complex Kid]

This is a pretty good thread about why the Texas lawsuit isn't going anywhere

 

[superchuck500]

Is Lin Wood a deep undercover Dem?

His political contribution history shows he has a history of donating to Democratic candidates.

 

[superchuck500]

If I'm projecting over-confidence, it's because Trump is getting absolutely dusted in court, and I've seen no indication that this is going to change at SCOTUS. None of this means I'm comfortable with the rhetoric that's coming out of the right, and there's no *political* nuclear option I'd put past Trump or his enablers. We're far too close to the brink already. No doubt.

Perhaps I haven't been plugged in enough to understand the prospect of a broad declaration of martial law, but because states are certifying their elections despite pressure from Trump, it seems that overturning the result outside SCOTUS -- including some broad invocation of martial law -- would require some sort of military intervention in order to be successful, right? Trump is commander-in-chief, but we already saw him test the limits of this over the summer, only to have been met by forceful resistance, and outright defiance, by his subordinates. I am skeptical that such a plan would get its wheels off the ground. If I'm being too dismissive of this, I want to know what I'm missing (to be clear, I have an infant and a very heavy workload so I am certainly missing a lot).

The whole thing is totally misplaced legally - which is not surprising because the kinds of people who advocate for that don't understand the rule of law, they don't respect the rule of law, and they welcome authoritarian structures. They are American fascists.

A president can "declare" martial law and attempt to direct certain activities to be conducted and supervised by the military rather than civilian authorities but (1) that doesn't mean that the president can then do whatever he wants and all law, including the Constitution, is suspended, and (2) the declaration is reviewable by the judiciary, which would immediately enjoin it. There are other avenues such as the Insurrection Act, but that doesn't really do anything for Trump either.

These are nothing more than fascist fantasies with no basis for reality barring a full-scale coup against the Constitution and the judiciary's ability to uphold it.

Yeah, some 'patriot' you are.

^that's me talking to the fascists

 

[bdb13]

His political contribution history shows he has a history of donating to Democratic candidates.

That quote from him sure sounds to me like it would be coming from a Democrat attempting to goad Republicans into screwing themselves.

Though with where we are now, sure it's possible that we're witnessing a Republican attempting to goad other Republicans into screwing themselves. Why not?

 

[insidejob]

Pennsylvania sure isn't pulling any punches in their response to the Texas suit.