The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (12 Viewers)

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.

www.politico.com

Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.

www.ncsl.org

Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

So Rudy went to Arizona to try to convince the state legislature to appoint electors...and now the legislature is closed for a week because Rudy exposed them to COVID. You simply cannot make this stuff up. Pure comedy.

 

[LA - L.A.]

We need a national education camp for some of these people.

I hope this is sarcasm.

 

[superchuck500]

So yes, it appears there are two primary questions, the first of which is timeliness. The PA Supreme dismissed on laches which is a common law doctrine requiring diligent pursuit of redress for legal harm known to the pursuer. I haven't read the decision in full but it's certainly sensible that the Act was known to Kelly and the relief Kelly seeks (rescinding PA's certification and invalidating all PA's mailed-in ballots that were authorized by Act 77) is so destructive, when a pre-election challenge would have been far more civil. I don't know the caselaw the court cited but laches exists for the equities involved - it's not 'justice' when one party can wait on a remedy should know they must pursue and then come in a late hour and kick over the whole apple cart. I think this question is very important for the SCOTUS to get beyond before any consideration of the merits. Kelly argues that it dismissing it on laches the PA Supreme violated federal constitutional rights.

Then there is the merits: Kelly is arguing that Act 77 is unconstitutional under PA's constitution. That's typically not a question for the SCOTUS, but a question for PA Supreme. The Court could, however, analyze the argument in the context of the federal Constitution's elector's clause that provides that electors are chosen in the manner in which the state legislatures shall establish. But even that is murky for the Court, because Act 77 was properly enacted PA legislation - which takes it back to the question of whether it violated PA's state constitution. And I don't think the Court would aim to resolve that question.

Seems like these are the possible scenarios:
1. Court declines to hear the case, it's a question of PA state law and the laches ruling did not violate the federal Constitution;
2. Court decides to hear it but rules that the question is really one for the PA Supreme and that court has already ruled on it so that's the answer;
3. Court decades to hear it and rules that the question is one for the PA Supreme and send it back to PA for resolution on the merits instead of laches/timeliness (which was either improperly decided or violated the federal Constitution); or
4. Court decides to hear the case and decides that laches was improper and Act 77 is invalid as a demonstration of legislative intent for the federal Elector's Clause (Art. II) because it was unconstitutional under state law. This would get the relief that Kelly seeks.

I really don't see 4 happening. I think 1 or 2 are most likely (same result basically, only 1 is the Court declining the application, and 2 is the Court taking it up). I also don't see how there's time for 3, and I think that matters.

Mostly the same conclusions:

Thread:

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Good thread.

 

[zztop]

I think it's time to reintroduce the fairness doctrine. What faux news is doing with all this fraud garbage is beyond irresponsible

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I think it's time to reintroduce the fairness doctrine. What faux news is doing with all this fraud garbage is beyond irresponsible

I don't think the Fairness Doctrine would matter one bit anymore. There are too many alternative sources of information. Right now people are leaving Fox in droves for Newsmax and OAN because Fox is giving only tepid support for the crazy. Tag fact checks on social media and they jump ship for MeWe and Parlor. The Fairness Doctrine worked when the information was sane, but opinions differed. Now 40% of the content available is absolute lunacy.

Even on the mainstream sources, how do we implement it now? If someone comes on that says Democrats aren't running Satanic pedophile rings from a pizza parlor and eating babies do we have to give equal time to people who say they are? Regular news will get as batty as Newsmax then.

The availability of alternative information sources combined with the sheer number of people that believe these things makes fixing this through policy pretty much impossible.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I hope this is sarcasm.

Sure. Sarcasm.

The fact is that there are a whole lot of people in this country that are sooooo easily convinced these undeniably stupid claims have merit. The majority of them believe that institutes of higher learning are already indoctrination camps, so yeah, the education camp idea was antagonistic on my part. Truth is, I don't know how to fix this problem, all I know is that if it continues, we will never heal this nation.

 

[Optimus Prime]

From Christopher Krebs
==================
On Nov. 17, I was dismissed as director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, a Senate-confirmed post, in a tweet from President Trump after my team and other election security experts rebutted claims of hacking in the 2020 election.

On Monday, a lawyer for the president’s campaign plainly stated that I should be executed. I am not going to be intimidated by these threats from telling the truth to the American people.

Three years ago, I left a comfortable private-sector job to join, in the spirit of public service, the Department of Homeland Security. At the time, the national security community was reeling from the fallout of the brazen Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. I wanted to help.

Across the nation’s security agencies, there was universal acknowledgment that such foreign election interference could not be allowed to happen again.

The mission was clear: Defend democracy and protect U.S. elections from threats foreign and domestic.............

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/christopher-krebs-trump-election-wasnt-hacked/2020/12/01/88da94a0-340f-11eb-8d38-6aea1adb3839_story.html

 

[wardorican]

So I'm reading how republicans in GA are starting to push for a required photo ID for mail-in voting

Mail in your license?

 

[wardorican]

China Virus??? That's funny, me and my peeps call it the Trump Virus!

The world looks at the United States as The Leaders of The World and as the leader of the US, the world tends to follow the POTUS' lead. When the virus grew beyond the borders of China, Trump failed to lead the WORLD outta danger! His failure of leadership makes him personally responsible for this global pandemic!

Remember those 2-3 days when he caught it and we all had to take it seriously along with him. Good times.

 

[JRad]

Mail in your license?

I'm guessing they want you to mail in a copy, and that's supposed to be proof you're you? Now I have to buy a printer to vote?

 

[insidejob]

So Rudy went to Arizona to try to convince the state legislature to appoint electors...and now the legislature is closed for a week because Rudy exposed them to COVID. You simply cannot make this stuff up. Pure comedy.

I saw a link to an article yesterday about whether or not COVID can be transmitted via fart. I just searched fart COVID and this article from Forbes came up. Can Farts Transmit COVID-19 Coronavirus? Here Is What Is Being Said (forbes.com) The question was posed by someone in Australia back at the start of this mess. Looks like Australia found the answers to these questions, and many more important ones, way back then and actually paid attention to the science. We, as a country, are still asking/answering these questions almost a year later because the Top Patriot leading Trump's moronic crusade to overturn the election results got infected and possibly transmitted it to numerous other people - via fart and otherwise.

 

[zztop]

How was everyone's weekend?

Michigan Secretary of State says armed protesters gathered outside her home

Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson said dozens of armed protesters gathered in a threatening manner outside her home on Saturday evening chanting "bogus" claims about electoral fraud.

www.reuters.com

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

Another Kraken down this morning.



This continues the brilliant legal strategy of not clearing even the initial thresholds of litigation in any court to "get it to the Supreme Court faster" or something.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

That is the specific suit that we were promised would be "Biblical." I haven't attended Catholic school in 25 years so I've leave it to someone else to select the appropriate passage from scripture to describe the dismissal.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

That is the specific suit that we were promised would be "Biblical." I haven't attended Catholic school in 25 years so I've leave it to someone else to select the appropriate passage from scripture to describe the dismissal.

Proverbs 24:16 - For the righteous falls seven times and rises again, but the wicked stumble in times of calamity.

They have fallen 48 times. You do the math.

 

[insidejob]

Finally! I thought all my ranting at the sun was going unheard.

 

[FullMonte]

The latest claim is that they took one of the Dominion machines in Georgia and ran an equal number of ballots through it for Trump and Biden, and the machine reported a 26% lead for Biden.

So, here is what I guess happened:

---There were 1,000,000 paper ballots with a vote for Trump, and 700,000 ballots with a vote for Biden.
---The machine tabulated them, and reported that Trump received 750,000 ballots and Biden received 1,000,000.
---3 hand recounts of the paper ballots showed that Biden had 1,000,000 ballots and Trump had 750,000 ballots.

I'm trying to figure out how they were able to replace 250,000 paper ballots for Trump with paper ballots for Biden, and why they needed the machine to change the numbers if they had a way to replace that many paper ballots without getting caught.