The Legacy Military Industrial Complex is Suffocating our Country's Growth (1 Viewer)

[Maxp]

I recently read the following article about the battle SpaceX fought competing with the aerospace establishment for government contracts and it made me wonder just how much further we'd be ahead if we didn't have these entrenched corporations vacuuming up public treasure. All the major auto manufacturers, the oil companies, some banks tried pretty hard to squash Tesla before they could become competitive and failed. All those same companies needed bailouts and the government to force them to make better products.

Boeing and Lockheed Martin(ULA), Northrup Grumman, and Blue Origin were given billions to develop a rocket with abilities that SpaceX Falcon Heavy already has. Of that 2.2 billion given to those companies, zero rockets have been produced and only one engine by Blue Origin that is now going to be used by ULA. So what the hell did ULA do with the 1 billion dollars they were given to make a rocket? We as a country need to start letting these behemoths fail. Better companies will rise from their dust.

How SpaceX outmaneuvered Blue Origin and other rivals to clinch a prized Space Force launch agreement worth billions

SpaceX, founded by Elon Musk, not only managed to get the rules of the competition changed, but also beat out Blue Origin and Northrop Grumman.

news.yahoo.com

 

[zztop]

Since this has kind of moved from just military spending... I think some of you are thinking too small
I present to you one of the greatest scams (that I know of lol)

The Book Of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal And Free The Net

By the end of 2014, America will have been charged about $400 billion by the local phone incumbents, Verizon, AT&T and CenturyLink, for a fiber optic future that never showed up.

www.huffpost.com

(Imagine if you will, two companies promising to build nationwide broadband. The government gives them boatloads of money, said companies hardly do what they promise, and pocket the rest)

" By the end of 2014, America will have been charged about $400 billion by the local phone incumbents, Verizon, AT&T and CenturyLink, for a fiber optic future that never showed up. And though it varies by state, counting the taxes, fees and surcharges that you have paid every month (many of these fees are actually revenues to the company or taxes on the company that you paid), it comes to about $4000-$5000.00 per household from 1992-2014, and that’s the low number. "

(You still see stuff like this happening)

AT&T grudgingly accepts $428 million in annual government funding

AT&T objected to 10Mbps requirement, but will expand “broadband” in 18 states.

arstechnica.com

" The money comes from the Connect America Fund, which draws from surcharges on Americans' phone bills to pay for rural Internet service. AT&T accepted the money even though it argued last year that rural customers don't need Internet service better than the old standard of 4Mbps downstream and 1Mbps upstream. The FCC ignored AT&T's protests in December, raising the Connect America Fund download standard to 10Mbps while leaving the 1Mbps requirement unchanged.

... Eight months later, AT&T is now willing to provide at least 10Mbps/1Mbps service to 1.1 million rural homes and businesses in 18 states in exchange for "$427,706,650 in annual, ongoing support from the Connect America Fund,"

(I shudder to think how many times over we the people have paid for something over and over and over again, and hardly gotten what we should have)

 

[Maxp]

Since this has kind of moved from just military spending... I think some of you are thinking too small
I present to you one of the greatest scams (that I know of lol)

The Book Of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal And Free The Net

By the end of 2014, America will have been charged about $400 billion by the local phone incumbents, Verizon, AT&T and CenturyLink, for a fiber optic future that never showed up.

www.huffpost.com

(Imagine if you will, two companies promising to build nationwide broadband. The government gives them boatloads of money, said companies hardly do what they promise, and pocket the rest)

" By the end of 2014, America will have been charged about $400 billion by the local phone incumbents, Verizon, AT&T and CenturyLink, for a fiber optic future that never showed up. And though it varies by state, counting the taxes, fees and surcharges that you have paid every month (many of these fees are actually revenues to the company or taxes on the company that you paid), it comes to about $4000-$5000.00 per household from 1992-2014, and that’s the low number. "

(You still see stuff like this happening)

AT&T grudgingly accepts $428 million in annual government funding

AT&T objected to 10Mbps requirement, but will expand “broadband” in 18 states.

arstechnica.com

" The money comes from the Connect America Fund, which draws from surcharges on Americans' phone bills to pay for rural Internet service. AT&T accepted the money even though it argued last year that rural customers don't need Internet service better than the old standard of 4Mbps downstream and 1Mbps upstream. The FCC ignored AT&T's protests in December, raising the Connect America Fund download standard to 10Mbps while leaving the 1Mbps requirement unchanged.

... Eight months later, AT&T is now willing to provide at least 10Mbps/1Mbps service to 1.1 million rural homes and businesses in 18 states in exchange for "$427,706,650 in annual, ongoing support from the Connect America Fund,"

(I shudder to think how many times over we the people have paid for something over and over and over again, and hardly gotten what we should have)

Enter Musk and Starlink

 

[dtc]

Yep I knew I would run into a fanboy.

Do you own one?

Yep a bit over fifty percent of the model three is made in the USA for now without that billion dollar tax break from Nevada all the batteries would come from China. By the way the Ford ranger is the most American vehicle


At what cost? You could say the direct to consumer model has a ton to do with that. But really with dealerships for that tiny cut of the actual pie they purchase land build buildings employ people lots and lots of people in all areas of America that Tesla is not doing. Oh an make service easy.

Well if your playing with a BMW that is not a motorcycle or a low production M you should lease. I like BMWs and own a r1150rt that I would not trade for anything all drop in value like a rock got mine used.

If the insurance is less I am floored. Almost any city has a bunch of shops that can repair any German car yet in all of the USA they only have four Tesla body shops. Two in California one in Illinois and one in Maryland. Four in the entire country.

That is what dealerships are for employment and service.

If you own a Tesla I hope you don't need body work. Your rear bumper stays on in puddles and so forth.

So no I don't buy the hype. The Elon Musk direct sales it killing decent paying jobs all over America.

My father in law has the x thing with the funny doors and has put 30k miles on it over the past 3 years. FYI, he loves it. When someone hit him it was easier to get fixed than the Porsche Panamera my MIL drives.

There's a local place here that did the work.

 

[The moose]

My father in law has the x thing with the funny doors and has put 30k miles on it over the past 3 years. FYI, he loves it. When someone hit him it was easier to get fixed than the Porsche Panamera my MIL drives.

There's a local place here that did the work.

That is good to hear.

I guess depending on how much damage and where something could be easier to fix. I have read horribly bad Tesla stories about parts chain and collision shops refusing to touch them. They seem to get totaled all the time.

I am a bargain hunter for sure. Copart is a totaled or donated auction nation wide for vehicles. It is set up to sell cars to salvage yards and the public kinda like eBay for that. They have plenty totaled with next to no damage. Minor bumps that did not deploy air bags totals 100k cars. They actually have over 300 totaled at all times for sale.

Here is an example of a totaled Tesla model s. No damages really. Change a couple doors and a bit more it is still drive able.

https://www.copart.com/lot/35820390/2018-tesla-model-s-ga-atlanta-east

Glad it worked well for the family not at all the case for most.

 

[CoolBrees]

I bought a VW e-golf instead of the Model M. I love it. I like having a car that doesn’t look special. I negotiated to sign over my tax incentives to the dealer for the $ off the principle so my payment is that of a regular sedan. Between Oregon and the US I got close to $20k off the sticker.

Truth be told I really like the Tesla but I couldn’t give Musk my money...Not yet anyway. Though the tech inside The M test drove is amazing.

The model S is a beautiful car, and I really like the X to replace my highlander hybrid, But I am not ready to spend that kind of money on a car.

 

[Maxp]

I took classes this year in Ft Lauderdale to upgrade my license. Next to the school was a body shop that was fixing Teslas daily. Seemed like they had 3 at a time waiting on work everyday. Drivers down there are horrible.

Now that they are casting much of the Model Y, I'm not sure how easy it will be to fix those.

 

[wardorican]

I took classes this year in Ft Lauderdale to upgrade my license. Next to the school was a body shop that was fixing Teslas daily. Seemed like they had 3 at a time waiting on work everyday. Drivers down there are horrible.

Now that they are casting much of the Model Y, I'm not sure how easy it will be to fix those.

Truth.

And what do you mean by 'casting much of the Model Y'. ?

 

[The moose]

I bought a VW e-golf instead of the Model M. I love it. I like having a car that doesn’t look special. I negotiated to sign over my tax incentives to the dealer for the $ off the principle so my payment is that of a regular sedan. Between Oregon and the US I got close to $20k off the sticker.

Truth be told I really like the Tesla but I couldn’t give Musk my money...Not yet anyway. Though the tech inside The M test drove is amazing.

The model S is a beautiful car, and I really like the X to replace my highlander hybrid, But I am not ready to spend that kind of money on a car.

I like the egolf just doesn't have great range. The new vw platform coming to the us is gonna be nice. I think it is the Id.4. it is a platform that was engineered to be electric.

The whole Id line is not coming to the states. They are gonna be great subcompacts that they refuse to sell here but don't need huge batteries because of the size and gonna hit the market below 20k.

Truth.

And what do you mean by 'casting much of the Model Y'. ?

It is kinda cool but cast aluminum is not the greatest for a frame material definitely not remotely close to the repairable non cast steel or aluminum.

Tesla Fremont to Soon Activate World’s Largest Unibody Casting Machine in Mass Model Y Production

Featured Image Credit: Tesla Tesla strives to produce its cars with maximal efficiency and quality. That is why Tesla is constantly revising its manufacturing processes. One of the latest areas of focus is the vehicle body.Model Y is the first application for which Tesla is using its new...

www.tesmanian.com

The speed of assembly is great and all but it also makes not anywhere near as repairable.

It just seems like a plan to not employ people and make his cars more disposable.

You know the more I think about it the old ways of the 100 series landcruser and the w123 Benz that are certainly not as bad for the environment because they last for lifetime.

The carbon footprint to keep building crazy electric cars that can't survive a crash is not near as bad as the poor gas mileage my old Toyota gets.

 

[wardorican]

I like the egolf just doesn't have great range. The new vw platform coming to the us is gonna be nice. I think it is the Id.4. it is a platform that was engineered to be electric.

The whole Id line is not coming to the states. They are gonna be great subcompacts that they refuse to sell here but don't need huge batteries because of the size and gonna hit the market below 20k.


It is kinda cool but cast aluminum is not the greatest for a frame material definitely not remotely close to the repairable non cast steel or aluminum.

Tesla Fremont to Soon Activate World’s Largest Unibody Casting Machine in Mass Model Y Production

Featured Image Credit: Tesla Tesla strives to produce its cars with maximal efficiency and quality. That is why Tesla is constantly revising its manufacturing processes. One of the latest areas of focus is the vehicle body.Model Y is the first application for which Tesla is using its new...

www.tesmanian.com

The speed of assembly is great and all but it also makes not anywhere near as repairable.

It just seems like a plan to not employ people and make his cars more disposable.

You know the more I think about it the old ways of the 100 series landcruser and the w123 Benz that are certainly not as bad for the environment because they last for lifetime.

The carbon footprint to keep building crazy electric cars that can't survive a crash is not near as bad as the poor gas mileage my old Toyota gets.

Thanks.

Yeah... it's going to be an interesting trade off between failure of assembly joints vs eventual failure of the unibody. I wish they said which Aluminum alloy they were casting, but most have really crappy elongation, thus have very low toughness. That means impacts can be more likely to lead to cracks, any defect will eventually lead to fatigue, and even without defects (just the natural cast ones, like porosity), it will fatigue. Aluminum does not have a true endurance limit, but the lack of ductility is a real concern (again.. not knowing which alloy they've chosed).

I'd hope it's better than the castings they use for alloy wheels. Watch the insurance crash replays.... you'll see those wheels split in half sometimes. Now imagine your unibody splitting in half if you slammed into a telephone pole.

The crash testing will be key for this, up front, but longer term fatigue concerns are there.

 

[Maxp]

Tesla Model Y giga-press aluminum casting

Tesla Model Y giga-press aluminum casting

www.sae.org

Repairs might become "easier" depending on the cost of a new cast part if you are just swapping one piece instead of 70. What do you think Ward?

 

[wardorican]

Tesla Model Y giga-press aluminum casting

Tesla Model Y giga-press aluminum casting

www.sae.org

Repairs might become "easier" depending on the cost of a new cast part if you are just swapping one piece instead of 70. What do you think Ward?

You can't just swap out the unibody.

If you bent or cracked your frame, they usually scrap the car. You wouldn't purchase a new frame, and then take your entire car apart and re-assemble it.

But it wouldn’t be the approach for low-volume production, Munro maintained. And “castings don’t repair very well,” he added. “If an impact was severe enough, the car’s a write-off,” he said. Of course, such is the case with many contemporary vehicle designs.