The Joe Biden 2020 tracker thread (9 Viewers)

[Intensesaint]

A place for all the gaffs, slip-ups and overall outlandish things Democratic candidates will say or do in lead up to the 2020 Election.

 

[Taurus]

You're not the only one that feels that way. I'd rather "waste my vote" for someone whom I can support than blindly vote party lines or try to get points by casting my vote for a "winner." Our two party system and the horrible people they prop up will never change unless we make our voices heard by not giving them our endorsement.

How do you do that, though? If you don't vote, you end up with whatever someone else picks for you. Withholding your endorsement is meaningless in that context.

 

[Infoman]

How do you do that, though? If you don't vote, you end up with whatever someone else picks for you. Withholding your endorsement is meaningless in that context.

You are getting that NOW anyway.... That's the whole point. The "choice" you have now is not a real choice... It's the illusion of choice.... The choice has already been made for you by the party... you get to flip the coin.

 

[rajncajn]

Our political system has given us the equivalent of a flaming bag of dog poo at our doorstep. The Republicans are screaming to let it burn & the Democrats are screaming to stomp it out and most of us are too dense to go get the hose and make them clean it up.

 

[rajncajn]

How do you do that, though? If you don't vote, you end up with whatever someone else picks for you. Withholding your endorsement is meaningless in that context.

I never said that I don't vote. I just vote for someone whom I feel comfortable with supporting. There's nothing that says the only two choices are Biden & Trump. I can vote for whomever I please.

Edit: And it's NOT meaningless if enough people would have the fortitude to stand behind their principles and not follow like sheep to the polls. I may vote for a person who has no chance of winning, but the more people who are willing to do that, the better chance we have at forcing change in our political system.

 

[Richard]

I never said that I don't vote. I just vote for someone whom I feel comfortable with supporting. There's nothing that says the only two choices are Biden & Trump. I can vote for whomever I please.

Edit: And it's NOT meaningless if enough people would have the fortitude to stand behind their principles and not follow like sheep to the polls. I may vote for a person who has no chance of winning, but the more people who are willing to do that, the better chance we have at forcing change in our political system.

I have felt the same way several times over the years, but never more than in 2016 when the choices from the major parties were two people that I absolutely could not vote for. I felt strongly that Trump would be a disaster and he has proven me right, but there was no way I could cast my vote for Hillary Clinton. After searching through every candidate on the Mississippi ballot, I voted for a third party candidate. I do not regret that vote philosophically, but looking back, I can't help but wish we had grown ups running the show and feel that Clinton's team would have been an improvement over the yes men that Trump has surrounded himself with.

With that in mind, I don't think we can tolerate another four years of Trump and his team. Since my protest vote for a third party candidate could contribute to Trump's reelection, I cannot in good conscience vote for anyone other than a person with a chance to replace him. I have never voted for a Democrat for president before, but I will this time. It won't likely matter in Mississippi, but I must do all I can to prevent another Trump term. I will campaign for Biden and encourage others to do so. The change in our political system will have to wait until the cancer that is in the White House is excised.

 

[rajncajn]

I have felt the same way several times over the years, but never more than in 2016 when the choices from the major parties were two people that I absolutely could not vote for. I felt strongly that Trump would be a disaster and he has proven me right, but there was no way I could cast my vote for Hillary Clinton. After searching through every candidate on the Mississippi ballot, I voted for a third party candidate. I do not regret that vote philosophically, but looking back, I can't help but wish we had grown ups running the show and feel that Clinton's team would have been an improvement over the yes men that Trump has surrounded himself with.

With that in mind, I don't think we can tolerate another four years of Trump and his team. Since my protest vote for a third party candidate could contribute to Trump's reelection, I cannot in good conscience vote for anyone other than a person with a chance to replace him. I have never voted for a Democrat for president before, but I will this time. It won't likely matter in Mississippi, but I must do all I can to prevent another Trump term. I will campaign for Biden and encourage others to do so. The change in our political system will have to wait until the cancer that is in the White House is excised.

Biden, according to polls, already has the numbers to win the popular vote. All he has to do is win over the swing states and he will win the election. Mississippi is not a swing state and will absolutely vote red. So, what difference do you think casting your vote for Biden will make?

 

[Taurus]

I never said that I don't vote. I just vote for someone whom I feel comfortable with supporting. There's nothing that says the only two choices are Biden & Trump. I can vote for whomever I please.

Edit: And it's NOT meaningless if enough people would have the fortitude to stand behind their principles and not follow like sheep to the polls. I may vote for a person who has no chance of winning, but the more people who are willing to do that, the better chance we have at forcing change in our political system.

I used to think that as well. Thing is, it's a fool's errand. Winner-take-all guarantees only two parties. You'll never see an election where the 3rd party has a rat's chance in hell of winning or even polling high enough to force a seat at the table. Voting 3rd party just helps the person you like least to win.

 

[Infoman]

Biden, according to polls, already has the numbers to win the popular vote. All he has to do is win over the swing states and he will win the election. Mississippi is not a swing state and will absolutely vote red. So, what difference do you think casting your vote for Biden will make?

Yep... I keep saying this... If you live in a State that will no doubt be RED / BLUE no matter what... Vote 3rd party.

 

[Infoman]

I used to think that as well. Thing is, it's a fool's errand. Winner-take-all guarantees only two parties. You'll never see an election where the 3rd party has a rat's chance in hell of winning or even polling high enough to force a seat at the table. Voting 3rd party just helps the person you like least to win.

This is the mentality that keeps it from happening... The 2 clown Parties love that most people think that way, it keeps them in power and making your choices for you... and as long as we allow it, It will be that way... The only way to change it, is to get them to take notice... losing large swaths of votes/funding will get them to notice.

 

[rajncajn]

I used to think that as well. Thing is, it's a fool's errand. Winner-take-all guarantees only two parties. You'll never see an election where the 3rd party has a rat's chance in hell of winning or even polling high enough to force a seat at the table. Voting 3rd party just helps the person you like least to win.

The two parties make you believe that and as long as you do, they will always be right. It's not about winning, it's about being heard.

 

[Taurus]

This is the mentality that keeps it from happening... The 2 clown Parties love that most people think that way, it keeps them in power and making your choices for you... and as long as we allow it, It will be that way... The only way to change it, is to get them to take notice... losing large swaths of votes/funding will get them to notice.

No, it won't. That's the thing. They don't care if only 5% of the people vote, so long as they get 50.1% of that number. The two parties are only too happy to see a 3rd get some attention so long as it siphons support from their opponent.
Ranked-choice is how you break that duopoly.

Losing big is how you force a party to reevaluate itself or at least its tactics. So if your party's gone off the rails, vote for the other one, unless ranked-choice features heavily for a given candidate. If so, back that one.

 

[coldseat]

You are getting that NOW anyway.... That's the whole point. The "choice" you have now is not a real choice... It's the illusion of choice.... The choice has already been made for you by the party... you get to flip the coin.

You keep saying that, but how do you discount all of the people that voted for Biden as their choice in the primary? People didn't vote for him because they're sheep (like you love to claim). That's who they chose. They had plenty of choices, they could have chosen Tulsi and didn't. Why? Biden wasn't my choice for president, but that's my choice. Plenty of people, for whatever reason, chose him and disagreed with me. That doesn't mean I just throw my hands up in the air and go home. That's not really how democracies are supposed to work. It's not an all or nothing affair, we rarely (never really) get everything we want in a candidate.

In general, I think Trump represents the Republican party very well in the sense that he represents a large segment of our society and they approve of him. He is the choice they made 4 years ago and he prevailed in the general because enough people bought his BS. They love him and will be voting for him again. Again, they had other choice they could have made, but they chose his racist vitriol and fear mongering and it prevailed. Hopefully, the results in the general will be different this year.

Our 2 party system is entrinched. I understand hating that and always wanting a unicorn 3rd party candidate to vote for. But the absolute truth is that if there was a viable 3rd party out there, their candidates would be winning elections on all levels (local, state and federal). A viable 3rd party isn't going to just be handed to us and people aren't just going to vote 3rd party because it's not one of the two main parties like you would do.

 

[Infoman]

The people with money, influence, party position and power choose which handful candidates you get to choose from (which are all in their pockets already)... And throw them at you to give you the illusion of choice... That's a fact. If we had a real choice - most (if not all) of the people on the Primary ballots and November ballots would not be there (Biden and Trump included). The candidates that can enact real change and kill the status quo for the American peoples' overall direct prosperity and well-being (and not the political landscape or power structure) are never on the Primary or General ballots.

"Here's your choices... Flip the coin... We're not good, but we're better than them... We got ya"!

Until we get over this repeated lie/farce that real change in this archaic 2 party system is some imaginary "unicorn" that does not exist.... It won't... and we'll be feed the same garbage, whilst being told it's better than the other garbage.

 

[JRad]

I have felt the same way several times over the years, but never more than in 2016 when the choices from the major parties were two people that I absolutely could not vote for. I felt strongly that Trump would be a disaster and he has proven me right, but there was no way I could cast my vote for Hillary Clinton. After searching through every candidate on the Mississippi ballot, I voted for a third party candidate. I do not regret that vote philosophically, but looking back, I can't help but wish we had grown ups running the show and feel that Clinton's team would have been an improvement over the yes men that Trump has surrounded himself with.

With that in mind, I don't think we can tolerate another four years of Trump and his team. Since my protest vote for a third party candidate could contribute to Trump's reelection, I cannot in good conscience vote for anyone other than a person with a chance to replace him. I have never voted for a Democrat for president before, but I will this time. It won't likely matter in Mississippi, but I must do all I can to prevent another Trump term. I will campaign for Biden and encourage others to do so. The change in our political system will have to wait until the cancer that is in the White House is excised.

This is was 100% me in 2016 as well. Granted, part of that was due to the Electoral College. Were that abhorrent system not in place, I would have held my nose and threw Hillary another popular vote.

The EC needs to go. I would also welcome ranked choice with open arms.

 

[rajncajn]

No, it won't. That's the thing. They don't care if only 5% of the people vote, so long as they get 50.1% of that number. The two parties are only too happy to see a 3rd get some attention so long as it siphons support from their opponent.
Ranked-choice is how you break that duopoly.

You're right that they don't really care if you vote or not as long as they get the majority vote, but I disagree with the premise that they like seeing a 3rd party get a vote because it not only siphons votes from their opponent, it siphons votes from them. Ask Hillary if she cares about people voting 3rd party. I don't buy into the "if you don't vote for me, you're voting for the other guy" farce.

Losing big is how you force a party to reevaluate itself or at least its tactics. So if your party's gone off the rails, vote for the other one, unless ranked-choice features heavily for a given candidate. If so, back that one.

So what if you think both parties have gone off the rails? You vote for the one that you think is less of a disaster?

 

[coldseat]

The people with money, influence, party position and power choose which handful candidates you get to choose from (which are all in their pockets already)... And throw them at you to give you the illusion of choice... That's a fact. If we had a real choice - most of the people on the Primary ballots and November ballots would not be there (Biden and Trump included). The candidates that can enact real change and kill the status quo for the American peoples' well-being (and not the political landscape or power structure) are never on the Primary or General ballots.

"Here's your choices... Flip the coin... We got ya"!

Until we get over this repeated lie/farce that real change in this archaic 2 party system is some imaginary "unicorn" that does not exist.... It won't... and we'll be feed the same garbage, whilst being told it's better than the other garbage.

Who are these candidates you keep talking about? Kanye? Who didn't get a shot at running for president that should have? You're speaking in so much generalities that are easy to agree with in passing, but where are these facts you keep mentioning.

 

[Infoman]

Who are these candidates you keep talking about? Kanye? Who didn't get a shot at running for president that should have? You're speaking in so much generalities that are easy to agree with in passing, but where are these facts you keep mentioning.

Yeah... I am talking about Kanye... you got me.... LMAO!

You keep asking for specifics that don't exist (yet - hopefully)... They don't exist because of the majority acceptance of the 2 party system we have now, and the lack of push back from the people that rather be comfortable with the evil that somewhat benefits them now - rather than to painfully do what they know is right for everyone in the long term.

If you don't know by now that each party is controlled and run by it's rich, influential elite donor class (as fact)... and that they get to choose who you get to "choose" from... and does not give a crap about you outside of devising a way to farm your vote without giving you any real / meaningful choices... then I have no idea how to break this to you...

In any event... sorry for the thread jack, we are way off topic now.

 

[coldseat]

Yeah... I am talking about Kanye... you got me.... LMAO!

You keep asking for specifics that don't exist (yet - hopefully)... They don't exist because of the majority acceptance of the 2 party system we have now, and the lack of push back from the people that rather be comfortable with the evil that somewhat benefits them now - rather than painfully do what they know is right for everyone in the long term.

If you don't know by now that each party is controlled and run by it's rich, influential elite donor class (as fact)... and that they get to choose who you get to "choose" from... and does give a crap about you outside of devising a way to farm your vote without giving any real choices... then I have no idea how to break this to you...

In any event... sorry for the thread jack, we are way off topic now.

Cool story bro. You can imagine that's always true, but if you honestly look at it the rich, influential elite donor class don't always get their pick. In the Republican primary 4 years ago., they initially wanted Jeb or Rubio. They got stuck with Trump and eventually coalesced behind him because that's who the republican base supported and who they could get elected. The same would have happened this year with the democarats if Bernie had won the democratic primary.

I'm not saying they don't have an outsized influence in our election. They certainly do, which is why I I'm in favor or campaign fiance reform and against the citizens united verdict. We need to control the influence of the rich on our political system to make thing much more equitable. One of the two major parties is actually in favor of doing that and has provided legislation to the that effect that has been rejected by the other party at every turn. I'll let you figure out which party is which.

Even with all of that being true, you and I can still agree on several things. I would like to see us change to a ranked choice system. I think that would better reflect the will of the people. I also believe that it's time to leave the EC behind (not sure if you agree with that or not), but it's time for the vote of the people to reflect the vote of the people.