The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (3 Viewers)

[Andrus]

By Laura Bassett

After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

“Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

Read the Full Story - InStyle

 

[Beach Friends]

I hate to break it to you podnuh, but you and i have very little say in whether or not he gets re-elected.

Just like “Beach friends” and those of her ilk have very little say.. All we have is our one vote... I guess if we can mobilize more of us to go out and vote, rather than more individuals like “Beach friends” and their cronies, then we’d have a shot.. But with the disorganized, chaotic mess that is the Democratic Party, i’d rather not hold onto false hope.

Hah, I think seeing the "chaotic mess that is the Democratic party" is my favorite part of this week. But, this is no accident. I have been saying for the last couple of years that the Democratic party's selling of its soul to the Church of Wokeness would result in a primary that force candidates to take positions that leave them unelectable in the general. What's entertaining is that people like Carville, and really the DNC, seem to just now be realizing what has been painfully obvious for so long.

What I am just now realizing is that this election may actually result in a split in the party.

I am not sure how the Democrats avoid disaster at this point. Quite frankly, I don't think this week could have turned out better for Sanders and the Democratic elite unwittingly set it all up for him. They started by cheating him in 2016. And now Hillary has really set the stage by her comments from the bleachers.

Bernie's supporters are going to rally around him and his competition is weak. So, the Democratic party is going to have a choice - allow the voters to actually pick the nominee and roll with Bernie or cheat him again in plain view of a crowd that happens to be anticipating it.

Neither is a good choice for the Democratic elites who may actually fear Bernie more than Trump.

Interesting times.

 

[Lapaz]

They both criticized the Administration's policies that they were working for and the serve at the pleasure of the President right? Vindman still has his job. He was transferred and not fired. I doubt anyone who was working to undermine the President's agenda would last long in any administration.

What agenda did Vindman undermine? The only thing he undermined is the corrupt agenda to pressure Ukraine? If he
undermined a legal action, it would be justified to fire him.

 

[SaintForLife]

What agenda did Vindman undermine? The only thing he undermined is the corrupt agenda to pressure Ukraine? If he
undermined a legal action, it would be justified to fire him.

The President's foreign policy agenda or do NSC officials get to set the agenda? Vindman still has his job. He wasn't fired. He was transferred.

 

[zztop]

Grisham told Fox News. "But I think he's also going to talk about just how horribly he was treated and, you know, that maybe people should pay for that."

and then there is this



so yep, not fired, just "reassigned" or "transferred"

 

[Lapaz]

The President's foreign policy agenda or do NSC officials get to set the agenda? Vindman still has his job. He wasn't fired. He was transferred.

What foreign policy did Vindman undermine?

 

[MT15]

They both criticized the Administration's policies that they were working for and the serve at the pleasure of the President right? Vindman still has his job. He was transferred and not fired. I doubt anyone who was working to undermine the President's agenda would last long in any administration.

how do you go from testifying truthfully equals criticizing the presidents policies? He wasn’t running around badmouthing the president. He recognized what Trump was doing was wrong and immediately went through proper channels. He didn’t testify until he was subpoenaed and then he told the truth.

he wasn’t just let go and reassigned, he was escorted out of the WH by security, like he was stealing. That was just bush league.

And they did the same thing to his brother, who wasn’t even involved in any way.

of course Trump has the right to do what he did, but anyone who says it wasn’t petty and vindictive and is trying to normalize it by comparing to past events is just being a Trump sycophant.

to clarify, SFL, I wasn’t calling you a Trump sycophant, what I mean is that this is one of those occasions where you can get a good bead on your sources. If you are reading sources who refuse to criticize this move as petty and vindictive, but rather justify it by drawing very flimsy comparisons, then you may want to re-evaluate the credence you give to those sources. I do that for my sources from time to time, it exposes the ones who are merely carrying water for their cause versus those who are more even handed.

 

[samiam5211]

Hah, I think seeing the "chaotic mess that is the Democratic party" is my favorite part of this week.

That is exactly how I felt about the Republicans 4 years ago.

I loved watching Trump calling women horse face and talk about his giant hands. The summer of 2016 was great. Watching the Republicans self destruct as we walked away with control of the entire government ushering in a generation of liberalism.

Ask me how that worked out for me.

 

[FWtex]

What foreign policy did Vindman undermine?

Actually he did more than undermine foreign policy. He went outside his chain of command with his concerns about the call. He leaked the details of the presidents call with a foreign leader to persons not in a need to know, and he did subvert the presidents foreign policy by advising his counterparts in Ukraine to no follow the directive set by the POTUS. All three of these were testified to in the house hearings.

 

[MT15]

Actually he did more than undermine foreign policy. He went outside his chain of command with his concerns about the call. He leaked the details of the presidents call with a foreign leader to persons not in a need to know, and he did subvert the presidents foreign policy by advising his counterparts in Ukraine to no follow the directive set by the POTUS. All three of these were testified to in the house hearings.

So your first two items are the same thing, I presume it refers to him going to WH counsel? I think it’s a stretch to call that nefarious and liken it to a “leak” is not quite honest.

And I do think a soldier should not follow an illegal directive, correct?

 

[Lapaz]

Actually he did more than undermine foreign policy. He went outside his chain of command with his concerns about the call. He leaked the details of the presidents call with a foreign leader to persons not in a need to know, and he did subvert the presidents foreign policy by advising his counterparts in Ukraine to no follow the directive set by the POTUS. All three of these were testified to in the house hearings.

You still didn’t answer my question. What was the foreign policy undermined? I assume you’ll say fighting corruption, and if so, explain how this effectively fought corruption? Also, why direct traffic, instead of asking them to prove they’re fighting corruption? Also, why didn’t Trump believe his own people that certified that Ukraine was doing well?

 

[SaintForLife]

how do you go from testifying truthfully equals criticizing the presidents policies? He wasn’t running around badmouthing the president. He recognized what Trump was doing was wrong and immediately went through proper channels. He didn’t testify until he was subpoenaed and then he told the truth.

he wasn’t just let go and reassigned, he was escorted out of the WH by security, like he was stealing. That was just bush league.

And they did the same thing to his brother, who wasn’t even involved in any way.

of course Trump has the right to do what he did, but anyone who says it wasn’t petty and vindictive and is trying to normalize it by comparing to past events is just being a Trump sycophant.

to clarify, SFL, I wasn’t calling you a Trump sycophant, what I mean is that this is one of those occasions where you can get a good bead on your sources. If you are reading sources who refuse to criticize this move as petty and vindictive, but rather justify it by drawing very flimsy comparisons, then you may want to re-evaluate the credence you give to those sources. I do that for my sources from time to time, it exposes the ones who are merely carrying water for their cause versus those who are more even handed.

As you said Trump has the right to do what he did and Vindman still has his job. The outrage over the President removing someone from the NSC that he didn't trust is a little much.

 

[zztop]

Even faux news said he was fired. lol

 

[SFIDC3]

Did you expect something different?

Exactly...

I doubt anyone who was working to undermine the President's agenda would last long in any administration

This may be the single most idiotic thing i've read on this board....Undermining a corrupt/illegal agenda? I just pray there are more Vindman's out there willing to put country first, there are certainly none in the GOP senate pool (except for Romney)....

 

[TaylorB]

See my last post.

They both criticized the Administration's policies that they were working for and the serve at the pleasure of the President right? Vindman still has his job. He was transferred and not fired. I doubt anyone who was working to undermine the President's agenda would last long in any administration.

Of course the president generally has the legal right to hire and fire within his administration; I just disagree with the implication in your post that Jofi’s firing has value as a precedent in justifying Vindman’s removal. Sure, you can argue what happened with Vindman was legal and/or you don’t care, I’m just pushing back on the suggestion that “Obama did this too.” No, he didn’t. Spewing anti administration propaganda from fake twitter accounts does not equal testifying in response to a congressional subpoena.

 

[SaintForLife]

Of course the president generally has the legal right to hire and fire within his administration; I just disagree with the implication in your post that Jofi’s firing has value as a precedent in justifying Vindman’s removal. Sure, you can argue what happened with Vindman was legal and/or you don’t care, I’m just pushing back on the suggestion that “Obama did this too.” No, he didn’t. Spewing anti administration propaganda from fake twitter accounts does not equal testifying in response to a congressional subpoena.

There were plenty reasons for Vindman being removed from the NSC. Here is Vindman's boss testifying to some of the issues.

 

[SaintForLife]

Exactly...



This may be the single most idiotic thing i've read on this board....Undermining a corrupt/illegal agenda? I just pray there are more Vindman's out there willing to put country first, there are certainly none in the GOP senate pool (except for Romney)....

If it was illegal please point out the law that Trump broke with the call. Why didn't the Democrats list an actual crime in their articles of impeachment instead of the nebulous Abuse of Power?

 

[Beach Friends]

This may be the single most idiotic thing i've read on this board....

That wasn't nice.

 

[st dude]

I dont know if this got posted elsewhere but I thought Laura did a good job of taking Collins in her latest GQ piece:

Why Susan Collins Is More Dangerous Than Mitch McConnell

It’s doubtful that Collins is simply naive and easily duped after serving in the Senate for more than two decades.

www.gq.com