The Impeachment Process Has Officially Begun (25 Viewers)

[Andrus]

By Laura Bassett

After months of internal arguing among Democrats over whether to impeach President Donald Trump, the dam is finally breaking in favor of trying to remove him from office. The Washington Post reported that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would announce a formal impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, following a bombshell report that Trump illegally asked Ukraine’s government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, one of his political opponents. (He essentially admitted to having done so over the weekend.)

“Now that we have the facts, we’re ready,” Pelosi said Tuesday morning at a forum hosted by The Atlantic. At 5 p.m. the same day, she was back with more. "The actions taken to date by the president have seriously violated the constitution, especially when the president says Article Two says I can do whatever I want," referring to the segment of the Constitution that defines the power of the executive branch of the government. Pelosi's message was that checks and balances of those branches are just as central to the Constitution. And one more thing: "Today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry," she said at a conference broadcast on Twitter by the Huffington Post. ...

Read the Full Story - InStyle

 

[Infoman]

I can't stomach the Far left or the Far right... I think both are equally bad for the country in general...

That said, Joe has a point, and it's not even debatable... One of these statements is acceptable by today's double standard, and one is not. Neither are "racists" IMO (dramatic and inflammatory on purpose, but not racists) ... but in today's society... one statement would be labeled "racist" and the other would not.

The only thing that gives me comfort is that the GOP is generally old, and white. The problem will literally die out with time. It's just a matter of can our democracy hold out till then.

The thing that gives me comfort is that the Left is generally young, and black. The problem will literally die out with natural selection. It's just a matter of can our democracy hold out till then.

Both statements are inflammatory, and untrue IMO... point is... one would be considered racists... and the other would not.

Now.... can we get back to the lies, omissions, corruption, bad acting, shirt show of a process... so we can all disagree.... and end up with a Senate vote of nothingness... that leads to another election in 2020 that no one will like the result of? Thanks.

 

[The moose]

Just think the Outrage if someone had said.. "Problem with our government is they are young and black."

Funny how one side can be openly racist and get away with it.

Joe I like you brother.

Nothing racist or ageist or sexist about saying someone is old and white and male.

As a middle aged white male I am not offended at all.

The younger generations want to do much more for the environment and gun laws plain an simple.

I think it is fair to say that the older generation has done plenty to screw it up to make a buck and really don't care in their last 15 years or so to fix it.

 

[Beach Friends]

Don't agree with the sign, but I do think what Jdonk said was unnecessary. Shouldn't wish for folks to "age out".

Are you making a funny? Or did you really not see any other issue with that post?

 

[J-DONK]

I can't stomach the Far left or the Far right... I think both are equally bad for the country in general...

That said, Joe has a point, and it's not even debatable... One of these statements is acceptable by today's double standard, and one is not. Neither are "racists" IMO (dramatic and inflammatory on purpose, but not racists) ... but in today's society... one statement would be labeled "racist" and the other would not.

The only thing that gives me comfort is that the GOP is generally old, and white. The problem will literally die out with time. It's just a matter of can our democracy hold out till then.

The thing that gives me comfort is that the Left is generally young, and black. The problem will literally die out with natural selection. It's just a matter of can our democracy hold out till then.

Both statements are inflammatory, and untrue IMO... point is... one would be considered racists... and the other would not.

Now can we get back to the lies, omissions, corruption, bad acting, shirt show of a process so we can all disagree and get to the Senate vote of nothingness that leads to another election in 2020 that no one will like the result of? Thanks.

I linked a article from politico talking about this. Do you consider that article inherently racist, and untrue? What do boomers think talking heads are referring to when they mention "Demographic changes are going to force the GOP to the left at some point".

 

[coldseat]

I can't stomach the Far left or the Far right... I think both are equally bad for the country in general...

That said, Joe has a point, and it's not even debatable... One of these statements is acceptable by today's double standard, and one is not. Neither are "racists" IMO (dramatic and inflammatory on purpose, but not racists) ... but in today's society... one statement would be labeled "racist" and the other would not.

The only thing that gives me comfort is that the GOP is generally old, and white. The problem will literally die out with time. It's just a matter of can our democracy hold out till then.

The thing that gives me comfort is that the Left is generally young, and black. The problem will literally die out with natural selection. It's just a matter of can our democracy hold out till then.

Both statements are inflammatory, and untrue IMO... point is... one would be considered racists... and the other would not.

Now can we get back to the lies, omissions, corruption, bad acting, shirt show of a process so we can all disagree and get to the Senate vote of nothingness that leads to another election in 2020 that no one will like the result of? Thanks.

Those two aren't exactly the same thing. Not even close really.

While the first one is insensitive and can be offensive to white people, there is nonetheless a basis for that belief that can be backed up by hard data (i.e. the GOP is older and whiter). Now whether that alone would fix the GOP is certainly up for discussion and is a matter of opinion.

The second one really has no basis of factual support and seems to rely solely on racist stereotypes that black people will either kill each other off or be killed because they're stupid (i.e. natural selection). .

One is way more racist than the other. I know you hate me pointing that out, you'd just prefer everything be equal. But it's not.

 

[Infoman]

You can link me to an article by Albert Einstein... they are the same type of inflammatory BS opinions that divide us... neither are true IMO... and neither are racists IMO... there is no debating that one would be taken as racists, and the other would not... whether they are factual is a matter of opinion based POV (not an cherry picked article - with selective information) that I was not debating...

I pulled "natural selection" out my arse because I knew it was inflammatory, and would raise arse hairs with those looking have them rose... same goes for the use of "die out' on the other side... as if everyone on the Right is 80 years old and white (also an un-true stereo type)... it's all dumb and inflammatory from both ends...

My point was to show the double standard that Joe pointed to... I did that... your responses show that... I don't care either way (I am an Independent multi-race 40 something). The double standard exists... that's all I had.

 

[samiam5211]

It was a mistake to go forward without at least John Bolton’s testimony.

There’s plenty already to show that Trump abused his power, but I don’t think they are going to flip a single Senator without more.

Even Mitt Romney, who I think hopes he is able to vote to Impeach, but kids with scoliosis have stronger spines that Mitt.

 

[J-DONK]

It was a mistake to go forward without at least John Bolton’s testimony.

There’s plenty already to show that Trump abused his power, but I don’t think they are going to flip a single Senator without more.

Even Mitt Romney, who I think hopes he is able to vote to Impeach, but kids with scoliosis have stronger spines that Mitt.

There are reps that believe the house should hold out on voting for articles until the key witnesses testify. What's the deal with Giuliani getting a hall pass anyways? He is a private citizen. He shouldn't be able to ignore a congressional subpoena.

 

[JimEverett]

It was a mistake to go forward without at least John Bolton’s testimony.

There’s plenty already to show that Trump abused his power, but I don’t think they are going to flip a single Senator without more.

Even Mitt Romney, who I think hopes he is able to vote to Impeach, but kids with scoliosis have stronger spines that Mitt.

Do you think political considerations are the reason they are trying to rush this through?
I mean it seems to me that the case for impeachment can only get stronger if an attempt is made to get ky players to testify.

 

[samiam5211]

Do you think political considerations are the reason they are trying to rush this through?
I mean it seems to me that the case for impeachment can only get stronger if an attempt is made to get ky players to testify.

I think they are afraid that giving the Republicans more time to repeat Russian talking points the more likely it is to stick with people.

I don’t disagree, but I think Bolton’s testimony could have been gotten with more public pressure. He doesn’t have to wait for the court to decide.

 

[JimEverett]

I think they are afraid that giving the Republicans more time to repeat Russian talking points the more likely it is to stick with people.

That makes it seem like there is a fairly weak case for impeachment - if Russian talking points, whatever those are, will undercut the argument for removal.

I am not going to pretend to know exactly how things moved during the Watergate investigation - really the only "successful" impeachment prosecution even though there was no actual impeachment. But arguably it was the slow drip of bad news as the investigation carried on and uncovered more and more instances of cover ups and attempted cover ups. And its worth mentioning that court cases played key roles - it is generally assumed the SCOTUS ruling ordering the turnover of all the tapes was the catalyst for the loss of the base of the remaining Republicans loyal to the President.

This impeachment seems overly rushed in comparison - as if the goal is political as opposed to actual oversight.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Perhaps you should start another thread. You're clearly digging a hole in this one.

If he was digging a hole it would be pretty easy to contradict
Instead the response is only mock outrage

 

[Beach Friends]

If he was digging a hole it would be pretty easy to contradict
Instead the response is only mock outrage

Perhaps.you are just not sensitive enough to racial issues.

Oh wait, hey GMR! I didn't recognize you at first.

 

[SaintForLife]

I think they are afraid that giving the Republicans more time to repeat Russian talking points the more likely it is to stick with people.

I don’t disagree, but I think Bolton’s testimony could have been gotten with more public pressure. He doesn’t have to wait for the court to decide.

What exactly are the Russian talking points?

 

[samiam5211]

That makes it seem like there is a fairly weak case for impeachment - if Russian talking points, whatever those are, will undercut the argument for removal.

I am not going to pretend to know exactly how things moved during the Watergate investigation - really the only "successful" impeachment prosecution even though there was no actual impeachment. But arguably it was the slow drip of bad news as the investigation carried on and uncovered more and more instances of cover ups and attempted cover ups. And its worth mentioning that court cases played key roles - it is generally assumed the SCOTUS ruling ordering the turnover of all the tapes was the catalyst for the loss of the base of the remaining Republicans loyal to the President.

This impeachment seems overly rushed in comparison - as if the goal is political as opposed to actual oversight.

It doesn’t undercut the arguement for impeachment at all.

The Republicans have resorted to disseminating Russian propaganda because they can’t defend the President on the facts. Half of the country hopes their team wins (well, both halves), and will buy in to what they believe is a winning argument.

Most people in both sides can’t be bothered to keep up with everything that is going on. Most people take the word of leaders they trust from their team. Right now on one team, the only leaders talking are the ones spewing Russian conspiracy theories.

The Senate isn’t going to move until public sentiment shifts meaningfully.

The democrats have to hope at the time of the senate votes Trump has done something especially terrible (charlottesville response kind of terrible) in the past week.

It’s possible I’m the one who is delusional and projecting.

 

[wardorican]

There are reps that believe the house should hold out on voting for articles until the key witnesses testify. What's the deal with Giuliani getting a hall pass anyways? He is a private citizen. He shouldn't be able to ignore a congressional subpoena.

Only guess is attorney client privilege..

But Bolton and Rudy would have been the two I pushed for. I'd also take the documents to court. They dont have to wait for the results, but have it in motion.

 

[coldseat]

What exactly are the Russian talking points?

That the Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election and not Russia. Lies being spread by Trump and republicans.

 

[FWtex]

Only guess is attorney client privilege..

But Bolton and Rudy would have been the two I pushed for. I'd also take the documents to court. They dont have to wait for the results, but have it in motion.

The Democrats don't want the witnesses to testify because they know it would not help their case. This way they can use the charge of Obstruction which is ridiculous because the democrats did not use all the means available to them to get what they ask for. They knew the WH was not going to open the door and just invite them in because that would be bad for the Oval Office for future presidents.