Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights per draft opinion (Update: Dobbs opinion official) (4 Viewers)

Users who are viewing this thread

    Not long ago Kari Lake proclaimed Arizona's abortion law was a great law and wanted it the law of the state.

    Now that she has gotten her way, she is lobbying for it to be repealed.

    As I have been saying since 2022, the overwhelming vast majority of women aren't going to vote for the man who proudly boasts that he got rid of Roe V. Wade. Nor are those women going to vote for a forced birther politician.

    Turns out, republican belief in "pro life" was all just lies to get votes. Who is surprised? I sure am not.

    How many forced birthers will do the same about face?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ka ... r-BB1ltx3I.

    Arizona Republican Senate candidate Kari Lake is actively lobbying state lawmakers to overturn a 160-year-old law she once supported that bans abortion in almost all cases, a source with knowledge of her efforts told CNN.
     
    I don't think anyone can say what will help someone recover except the person who is harmed and trying to recover.

    I can't speak for her but if that happened to me, suing everyone involved who caused such a nightmare and life long health problems would go a long way to help me recover.

    Mostly, because it will help put a stop to all this.

    I would feel much better knowing that no other woman would be forced to endure such a nightmare.

    I would feel much better knowing that all those involved in causing this actually faced some sort of consequences for their actions.

    The doctors and hospital put money before that woman's life. That's a violation of the doctor's Hippocratic oath. It's also a violation of all ethical and humane standards.

    No man would ever have to face anything like this.
    I do think one can determine that which is nie impossible.

    Suing everyone involved is impossible. Everyone involved numbers American people in the millions. Probably somewhere around one in three of the people in this land.
     
    I do think one can determine that which is nie impossible.

    Suing everyone involved is impossible. Everyone involved numbers American people in the millions. Probably somewhere around one in three of the people in this land.


    No it doesn't.

    Everyone involved with causing her to experience that nightmare are the hospital, the doctors and politicians.

    The hospital put profits before the law and health care for the patient.

    The doctors put money, or being fined, before the law and health care for the patient.

    The politicians were practicing medicine without a license when they passed those laws. Those who aren't properly educated for and don't have any experience with medicine have no business passing laws about health care while ignoring the advice from those who are properly educated and have years of experience working in the medical field. Those experts and professionals were brought in to state congress when those states passed those laws. The republicans ignored the experts and practiced medicine without a license.

    The hospital, doctors and politicians, essentially all those involved in causing this, should be sued. If it was up to me, they would also face criminal charges and be sent to prison.

    They violated federal laws and the constitution.
     
    No it doesn't.

    Everyone involved with causing her to experience that nightmare are the hospital, the doctors and politicians.

    The hospital put profits before the law and health care for the patient.

    The doctors put money, or being fined, before the law and health care for the patient.

    The politicians were practicing medicine without a license when they passed those laws. Those who aren't properly educated for and don't have any experience with medicine have no business passing laws about health care while ignoring the advice from those who are properly educated and have years of experience working in the medical field. Those experts and professionals were brought in to state congress when those states passed those laws. The republicans ignored the experts and practiced medicine without a license.

    The hospital, doctors and politicians, essentially all those involved in causing this, should be sued. If it was up to me, they would also face criminal charges and be sent to prison.

    They violated federal laws and the constitution.
    Our disagreement is not on the merits of the issue itself. I can see I've been on this issue, on the same side you are for a lot longer than you have been going at it.

    My disagreement with you is limited to the merits of your advice to the victim. What you have just recommended is taking up three civil suites, all of which are not likely to yield any satisfaction in court even after years of toil and great expense to bring them forward.

    I suppose you also think she ought to become a political activist too. What you propose she ought to do would consume the remainder of her life.

    If that is what she wants to do with her life I don't mind. But after seeing what was available to me in the report about her life and position, my advice for her would be to try to heal, to go on as best she can, there's no available option open here for extracting vengeance.

    Obviously she decides.
     
    I support this ruling.


    I'm just seeing this decision - it's important because it goes to a central question that has been looming since the Dobbs decision: will states be able to prosecute citizens for abortions obtained beyond state lines where it was legal.

    This kind of extra-jurisdictional (extra-territorial) reach seems to have clear constitutional problems but that doesn't mean the courts will properly apply the law. Here in the first example that I know of, the district judge did indeed properly apply that law.

     
    I'm just seeing this decision - it's important because it goes to a central question that has been looming since the Dobbs decision: will states be able to prosecute citizens for abortions obtained beyond state lines where it was legal.

    This kind of extra-jurisdictional (extra-territorial) reach seems to have clear constitutional problems but that doesn't mean the courts will properly apply the law. Here in the first example that I know of, the district judge did indeed properly apply that law.

    We need a powerful showing at the polls this fall to hopefully have the political mandate show those judges that it hopefully will nudge them to steer their courts a wee bit more toward port so they'll stay in better formation with the rest of the fleet keeping at sea.

     
    Our disagreement is not on the merits of the issue itself. I can see I've been on this issue, on the same side you are for a lot longer than you have been going at it.

    My disagreement with you is limited to the merits of your advice to the victim. What you have just recommended is taking up three civil suites, all of which are not likely to yield any satisfaction in court even after years of toil and great expense to bring them forward.

    I suppose you also think she ought to become a political activist too. What you propose she ought to do would consume the remainder of her life.

    If that is what she wants to do with her life I don't mind. But after seeing what was available to me in the report about her life and position, my advice for her would be to try to heal, to go on as best she can, there's no available option open here for extracting vengeance.

    Obviously she decides.


    Suing those who seriously harmed her isn't political activism.

    It's holding them accountable for their actions and hopefully sending a message so that no one else would have to experience the nightmare she experienced.

    I don't know about you being on this issue longer than me.

    I'm 63 years old, will be 64 in July.

    My mom was an OBGYN. Before and after Roe V. Wade.

    All my life I have never been able to get rid of memories of what anti choice did to my mom.

    She spent years saving lives of women who either went to a butcher or tried to self abort.

    I lost count how many times my mom came home from work, went straight to her room, closed the door and didn't come out. She spent the evening crying and praying to the Mother Goddess for strength to carry on. That is after she spent a day trying to save the life of a woman and lost the fight.

    Every death took a piece of my mom from her and all of us.

    Then after Roe V. Wade my mom helped set up clinics in my area. One of them was bombed in the 80s. Thank goodness my mom wasn't there when the bomb went off.

    When you grow up seeing such things, when you grow up feeling so helpless to help your mom, when you grow up not knowing that your mom might not come home because some crazy person with a bomb blew up the clinic, you get a very different perspective.

    I don't expect you to understand. You didn't grow up the way I did. Seeing the things I saw and crying yourself to sleep because of what has happened to your mom.

    I got a very different perspective of things because of that.

    I know that if I was that woman in the story posted, I would be suing everyone involved. Not for activism.

    So that others wouldn't have to face the nightmare.

    I do care about people. Including people I don't know and never will know.

    It's as simple as that.
     
    Suing those who seriously harmed her isn't political activism.

    It's holding them accountable for their actions and hopefully sending a message so that no one else would have to experience the nightmare she experienced.

    I don't know about you being on this issue longer than me.

    I'm 63 years old, will be 64 in July.

    My mom was an OBGYN. Before and after Roe V. Wade.

    All my life I have never been able to get rid of memories of what anti choice did to my mom.

    She spent years saving lives of women who either went to a butcher or tried to self abort.

    I lost count how many times my mom came home from work, went straight to her room, closed the door and didn't come out. She spent the evening crying and praying to the Mother Goddess for strength to carry on. That is after she spent a day trying to save the life of a woman and lost the fight.

    Every death took a piece of my mom from her and all of us.

    Then after Roe V. Wade my mom helped set up clinics in my area. One of them was bombed in the 80s. Thank goodness my mom wasn't there when the bomb went off.

    When you grow up seeing such things, when you grow up feeling so helpless to help your mom, when you grow up not knowing that your mom might not come home because some crazy person with a bomb blew up the clinic, you get a very different perspective.

    I don't expect you to understand. You didn't grow up the way I did. Seeing the things I saw and crying yourself to sleep because of what has happened to your mom.

    I got a very different perspective of things because of that.

    I know that if I was that woman in the story posted, I would be suing everyone involved. Not for activism.

    So that others wouldn't have to face the nightmare.

    I do care about people. Including people I don't know and never will know.

    It's as simple as that.
    I think I mentioned the possibility if taking up political activism in addition to lawsuits, not that one is the other.

    I am a bit older than you. But not very much. Not enough to be lording it over you.

    Your discussion about your mom's part in the history of this is very interesting.

    I have a serious allergy for lawsuits. Anything at a lawyers office or courthouse. It's very hard for me to imagine a wounded person who's health would benefit by introducing such an overwhelming mind troubling factor into an already injured mind.

    All I can see is it would likely derail what's left of the poor woman's life. And I would foresee that she would make no progress whatsoever with such a poor set of lawsuits to work with. At every turn they have themselves covered by boilerplate fine print, or immunity. Immunity for the case of members of congress state or federal, Immunity for the courts.


    At this moment I'm sitting on an "I could sue them" situation. I'm not going to do it, it would be counterproductive for my remaining life even if I won.

    It seems that during the early stages of Covid I may have been misdiagnosed as having a massive heart attack. I told them I wasn't in pain, nor did I think I needed an ambulance to carry me from one small hospital to a big one in the far off city.

    I went in to the ER because I felt a strange resonance in my heart for a few moments that evening. I was thinking I needed to ge that captured on an EKG. It turns out that strange rhythm was a common heart chamber flutter. Considered to be benign. It's a sound resonance quirk that causes one to think their heart is beating exactly twice as fast as it actually is.

    It's basically a musical thing. It is explained the same way a pipe organ pipe is explained. That resonance is what makes the notes sound so big and full.

    I should have stayed home.

    They ignored usual protocol because the Covid in the Hospital was terrifying both them and me. Basically they put stents in me on the basis of a single blood test without testing twice to if it was a lab error, they do run a 4% false positive error rate on that test.

    They didn't exam me, they hardly even held a stethoscope to my chest. They didn't do anything which is listed under the protocols as the standard for diagnosis of the condition, they rushed me through surgery.

    I'm not inclined to nessarally fault them under the conditions I saw that day. They were terrified, I was terrified, and I will have to admit I was glad they were not messing around that day. They got me in and out of that scary hospital in about a half a day. Pretty darned fast for what is serious a heart surgery.

    During the few hours I was there I saw a dead person being wheeled out of the area the Covid cases were being kept, going toward the morgue. He was sitting up in his wheeled bed. His last meal and all of his personal belonging were piled on the bed with him.

    That's how they do it. That is how I feel about it. I am a victim, but I see the way it came about, and those weren't bad people. They were trying as best as they could. I'm not going to sue them for trying.
     
    Last edited:
    I think I mentioned the possibility if taking up political activism in addition to lawsuits, not that one is the other.

    I am a bit older than you. But not very much. Not enough to be lording it over you.

    Your discussion about your mom's part in the history of this is very interesting.

    I have a serious allergy for lawsuits. Anything at a lawyers office or courthouse. It's very hard for me to imagine a wounded person who's health would benefit by introducing such an overwhelming mind troubling factor into an already injured mind.

    All I can see is it would likely derail what's left of the poor woman's life. And I would foresee that she would make no progress whatsoever with such a poor set of lawsuits to work with. At every turn they have themselves covered by boilerplate fine print, or immunity. Immunity for the case of members of congress state or federal, Immunity for the courts.


    At this moment I'm sitting on an "I could sue them" situation. I'm not going to do it, it would be counterproductive for my remaining life even if I won.

    It seems that during the early stages of Covid I may have been misdiagnosed as having a massive heart attack. I told them I wasn't in pain, nor did I think I needed an ambulance to carry me from one small hospital to a big one in the far off city.

    I went in to the ER because I felt a strange resonance in my heart for a few moments that evening. I was thinking I needed to ge that captured on an EKG. It turns out that strange rhythm was a common heart chamber flutter. Considered to be benign. It's a sound resonance quirk that causes one to think their heart is beating exactly twice as fast as it actually is.

    It's basically a musical thing. It is explained the same way a pipe organ pipe is explained. That resonance is what makes the notes sound so big and full.

    I should have stayed home.

    They ignored usual protocol because the Covid in the Hospital was terrifying both them and me. Basically they put stents in me on the basis of a single blood test without testing twice to if it was a lab error, they do run a 4% false positive error rate on that test.

    They didn't exam me, they hardly even held a stethoscope to my chest. They didn't do anything which is listed under the protocols as the standard for diagnosis of the condition, they rushed me through surgery.

    I'm not inclined to nessarally fault them under the conditions I saw that day. They were terrified, I was terrified, and I will have to admit I was glad they were not messing around that day. They got me in and out of that scary hospital in about a half a day. Pretty darned fast for what is serious a heart surgery.

    During the few hours I was there I saw a dead person being wheeled out of the area the Covid cases were being kept, going toward the morgue. He was sitting up in his wheeled bed. His last meal and all of his personal belonging were piled on the bed with him.

    That's how they do it. That is how I feel about it. I am a victim, but I see the way it came about, and those weren't bad people. They were trying as best as they could. I'm not going to sue them for trying.


    I understand. I've been through something like that but it didn't involve surgery.

    I'm allergic to penicillin family of antibiotics and any natural mold that has the same components as penicillin.

    In the early 2000s, a doctor I had been seeing for about a decade prescribed an antibiotic and it sent me into severe anaphylactic reaction. I nearly died.

    Suing him was the last thing that I thought of. All he was doing was trying to help me. After all those years of seeing him we had become friends and he felt so bad that he nearly killed his friend. I felt bad that it took such a toll on him.

    But what happened to that woman isn't what happened to you or me.

    You and I aren't that woman either.

    I know a lot about other people taking my power and my control of my body from me.

    What that woman went through robbed her of her power, her dignity and control of her own body. It has also robbed her of the ability to have more children. Which I believe is so far beyond cruel I don't have the words to describe it. Standing up to a system that allows that can and probably will help her regain her power and control of her life and body. Taking proaction to help make sure that other women don't have to go through that nightmare will also help.

    Just slinking away allowing all that to happen and not even saying what they did was wrong and to stop doing it will not help her. In fact it will probably harm her.
     
    I understand. I've been through something like that but it didn't involve surgery.

    I'm allergic to penicillin family of antibiotics and any natural mold that has the same components as penicillin.

    In the early 2000s, a doctor I had been seeing for about a decade prescribed an antibiotic and it sent me into severe anaphylactic reaction. I nearly died.

    Suing him was the last thing that I thought of. All he was doing was trying to help me. After all those years of seeing him we had become friends and he felt so bad that he nearly killed his friend. I felt bad that it took such a toll on him.

    But what happened to that woman isn't what happened to you or me.

    You and I aren't that woman either.

    I know a lot about other people taking my power and my control of my body from me.

    What that woman went through robbed her of her power, her dignity and control of her own body. It has also robbed her of the ability to have more children. Which I believe is so far beyond cruel I don't have the words to describe it. Standing up to a system that allows that can and probably will help her regain her power and control of her life and body. Taking proaction to help make sure that other women don't have to go through that nightmare will also help.

    Just slinking away allowing all that to happen and not even saying what they did was wrong and to stop doing it will not help her. In fact it will probably harm her.
    I don't think there are that many who will just slink away as you put it. The ones who've been awful all along will likely continue to be awful. I guess they are about 30%.

    Good people will vote in 24.
     
    I don't think there are that many who will just slink away as you put it. The ones who've been awful all along will likely continue to be awful. I guess they are about 30%.

    Good people will vote in 24.


    I mean that woman who was harmed. Her not doing anything and just slinking away quietly allows this nightmare to continue. And that's what the forced birthers want women to do. To just allow this nightmare to continue.

    Speaking up. Suing all those involved will help her. It will help her regain her power, her self dignity and control of her own body. Knowing that she took action to hold those people accountable for what they did will help her.

    That's what I meant.

    I am pretty sure women all over this nation can't wait for November to get here to vote as many forced birthers out of office as possible.

    I wish I could. There are no forced birthers representing me. My state is fully controlled by democrats who support freedom and women and it's been that way for literally decades, since the 90s. And that isn't going to change.

    I have been a registered Independent voter since 1978. I have never missed an election in my adult life. I take that voter's pamphlet and call all those who provide a phone number and talk to them. My first question has always been "are you pro choice?" If they don't immediately say yes, if they filibuster or say no, they don't get my vote. In the last couple decades email address have been included, I email those who don't provide a phone number and the first question is always the same. "Are you pro choice."

    I have financially supported Planned Parenthood all my adult life. I have financially supported organizations that do nothing but fund abortions since the bush boy years. Now that includes transportation, hotel, food etc along with the abortion. I just sent out another 100 dollar check Wednesday.

    I have walked the walk all my adult life.

    I don't just talk the talk.
     
    Speaking up. Suing all those involved will help her. It will help her regain her power, her self dignity and control of her own body. Knowing that she took action to hold those people accountable for what they did will help her.
    Everyone is unique and everyone recovers from trauma and grief in unique ways. The approach you describe above would help some people recover from trauma and grief, but it would also be completely devastating for others.

    Just like you want everyone to respect that each pregnant person and their doctor gets to decide what's best for them, you should show the same respect to this woman that she and those who care for her have the right to determine what's best for her.
     

    Create an account or login to comment

    You must be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create account

    Create an account on our community. It's easy!

    Log in

    Already have an account? Log in here.

    Advertisement

    General News Feed

    Fact Checkers News Feed

    Sponsored

    Back
    Top Bottom