Student Loan Forgiveness (MERGED) (2 Viewers)

[el caliente]

Rumors floating around is that today President Biden will be canceling a portion of student loans. That’s fine and all, but what’s your take on it? If it truly is only $10k in forgiveness, is that enough to make much of an impact? Is student loan forgiveness just tax payer funded student loan bribery?

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[FullMonte]

Personally, I wouldn't have a HUGE problem with the government paying off everyone's outstanding student loans .....

IF

They first addressed the issues that cause student loan debt. Paying off everyone's student loans just so that in ten years we are right back where we started is a huge waste of money.

 

[Joan's E]

You're gonna pay like 3 cents a year.

That's a lie. The reality of it is I'll likely pay even less than that in the near future, until the eventual mounting debt of it (along with a bunch of other fiscal policies) will either drive up inflation or simply crush us in interest repayment and then we'll be paying a lot more.

But those 200,000 communications degrees will be well worth it.

 

[Beach Friends]

I know you're just joking, but it isn't funny that the undergraduate program that cost 14k / yr when I was there is now 65k per year. It's even less funny that a kid who got out of there with a 5 year MBA would start on wall street at just over 100k. That same degree will still get you 100k, but if you're 300k in debt it was a bad deal.

One of the issues is the huge bloat in administration.

In all seriousness, if a university education becomes an entitlement I think it will be a huge money universities. Standards for admission will likely decrease and everyone will get passing grades. A diploma will be devalued.

I would rather see us focus on education that provides skills rather than some of the less marketable degrees.

 

[brandon]

Yeah, and what's wrong with that? Particularly when the "get nots" are underwriting the "gets".

Welcome to literally every tax cut the Republicans have passed in the last 50 years.

Taxation is basically taking money at gunpoint. What this boils down to is government taking money at gunpoint and then giving it to someone who made a conscious decision to undertake a financial obligation and, well, just doesn't want to pay it back anymore because they didn't realize their art history degree wasn't going to make them an instant millionaire. Philosophically, I think that's problematic.

It's better than tax cuts that take money (aT gUnPoiNt) from the poor that made no conscious decision to undertake a financial obligation and transfer it to the wealthy.

Now again, I'm reaping a benefit from this program, so I'm not nearly as broken up about it as I could be.

I'm receiving not one red cent from this program, and I'm completely ok with funding it for your benefit.

 

[dtc]

One of the issues is the huge bloat in administration.

In all seriousness, if a university education becomes an entitlement I think it will be a huge money universities. Standards for admission will likely decrease and everyone will get passing grades. A diploma will be devalued.

I would rather see us focus on education that provides skills rather than some of the less marketable degrees.

I don't agree with all your anti-government stuff, but I do agree we need to provide an education that fits not only the economy of tomorrow, but the person.

We have a serious shortage of skilled labor in this country and some of those jobs are well paying and honorable work where a person can be their own boss and build a life and retire early with any sort of aptitude.

As for the bloated administration, it's ridiculous. All the free money seems to have allowed universities to have built up huge facilities and costs and it should be curtailed.

I'd have no problem with state schools being free or just being what they used to be which was affordable. A young person ought to be able to work their way through state university or at least community college and get a meaningful education that leads to a reasonable job.

Edited to add:

To me it's nearly the same as healthcare. Not every body needs Princeton or Yale. Not everybody needs the world's greatest diagnostician like Doctor House in order to figure out they have indigestion. The facilities don't need to be shining monuments to someone's ego. It's just a waste.

 

[brandon]

That's a lie. The reality of it is I'll likely pay even less than that in the near future, until the eventual mounting debt of it (along with a bunch of other fiscal policies) will either drive up inflation or simply crush us in interest repayment and then we'll be paying a lot more.

But those 200,000 communications degrees will be well worth it.

Or, the people who have $10k cancelled suddenly have $10k in buying power they didn't have before, which stimulates the economy, which increases overall production, and suddenly, you actually make MORE money long-term because the economy is in much better shape when individuals are able to spend freely in the economy rather than making bankers rich with unending interest payments.

It's like investing in the police department. Yea, it's literally a money pit. The police department does not do anything economically except take money from the government. Yet, because they exist, other businesses are able to produce at a much higher level than if they didn't. Therefore, while the police isn't a direct economic driver, they indirectly allow others to produce at a much higher level, thereby increasing GDP and prosperity for everyone.

 

[samiam5211]

I don't agree with all your anti-government stuff, but I do agree we need to provide an education that fits not only the economy of tomorrow, but the person.

We have a serious shortage of skilled labor in this country and some of those jobs are well paying and honorable work where a person can be their own boss and build a life and retire early with any sort of aptitude.

As for the bloated administration, it's ridiculous. All the free money seems to have allowed universities to have built up huge facilities and costs and it should be curtailed.

I'd have no problem with state schools being free or just being what they used to be which was affordable. A young person ought to be able to work their way through state university or at least community college and get a meaningful education that leads to a reasonable job.

Edited to add:

To me it's nearly the same as healthcare. Not every body needs Princeton or Yale. Not everybody needs the world's greatest diagnostician like Doctor House in order to figure out they have indigestion. The facilities don't need to be shining monuments to someone's ego. It's just a waste.

When I was teaching about 15 years ago, I had plenty of kids who hated math but loved welding or computers or art. Many of them were disciplinary problems because they didn’t care.

If we could have put these kids in 4 hours of a vocation area instead of prepping them for the test to make sure we were preparing kids for college, they may have learned much more and not gotten used to the idea that they were disciplinary problems.

 

[B4YOU]

These replies are why something had to be done. This stops the ballooning interest that was actually predatory.



The people who benefit are not the Ivy League grads. It’s the people who went to trade school or community college for 2 years and took out a smallish $15,000 loan only to see it balloon into $30,000 after ten years because of compounding interest and predatory lending practices. Their jobs as 2-year RNs, CMAs or EMTs are not going to allow them to deal with this type of debt and also buy a house or start a family. The most important part of this is the way it stops the interest from allowing the principle to balloon in the future.

It doesn’t address increasing college costs - it wasn’t designed to do that. That has to be done by the states generally.

I had student loans and made my payments many years ago - I never saw this happen to me. Something is wrong with the way these borrowers have been treated. You shouldn’t have to pay back 5x your original loan.

If the plan was to set interest at 0-2% for all federal student loans (both existing and future) and forgive up to 10k of existing interest, then I would support this.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

I don't agree with all your anti-government stuff, but I do agree we need to provide an education that fits not only the economy of tomorrow, but the person.

We have a serious shortage of skilled labor in this country and some of those jobs are well paying and honorable work where a person can be their own boss and build a life and retire early with any sort of aptitude.

As for the bloated administration, it's ridiculous. All the free money seems to have allowed universities to have built up huge facilities and costs and it should be curtailed.

I'd have no problem with state schools being free or just being what they used to be which was affordable. A young person ought to be able to work their way through state university or at least community college and get a meaningful education that leads to a reasonable job.

Edited to add:

To me it's nearly the same as healthcare. Not every body needs Princeton or Yale. Not everybody needs the world's greatest diagnostician like Doctor House in order to figure out they have indigestion. The facilities don't need to be shining monuments to someone's ego. It's just a waste.

I’ve said before one of my complaints of a ‘liberal’ education was the flattening/one size fits all approach
HOWEVER
That was put into place bc there was very little compromise/adaptability from the ‘traditional‘ side so the baby and the bath water both went
IF
there was a way to have votech be about abilities and not just another means of racial/class segregation, I’d be all for it; but the current political climate demonstrates that would be folly

Also the explosion of spending on education has gone primarily to administration, then to gyms/commons and dorms - ‘maybe’ the odd new science building
At the same time, there were many state legislature pushes for bigger class sizes and a more ‘business model’ approach to ‘effective ‘ classes
This made most university studied cumbersome and less mobile- training kids for jobs that were 10 years passé and funneling more kids in those classes this adding more liquid to already over saturated pre-professions

 

[samiam5211]

But those 200,000 communications degrees will be well worth it.

No degree should cost 200,000 dollars.

There isn't anything wrong with a communications degree.

 

[BrewDrees9]

How about ‘hey banks, if taxpayers have ever bailed out your sorry butts, shut up about student loans”?

but muh shareholders

this is the path that would upset the fewest people. you know... just a more polished argument.

 

[Joan's E]

Welcome to literally every tax cut the Republicans have passed in the last 50 years.

Okay? Let's get rid of those too. I fail to see the applicability.

It's better than tax cuts that take money (aT gUnPoiNt) from the poor that made no conscious decision to undertake a financial obligation and transfer it to the wealthy.

Okay? Let's get rid of those too. I fail to see the applicability.

I'm receiving not one red cent from this program, and I'm completely ok with funding it for your benefit.

I'm happy to send you a cookie for your benevolence. But honestly, you shouldn't be okay with it. We don't need the help and we completely understood what we were signing and what the ramifications of it were. We're the last people a program like this should be for, which only supports how foolishly it's being implemented.

 

[dtc]

this is the path that would upset the fewest people. you know... just a more polished argument.

Republicans saw to it that the government run student loans were turned over to for profit entities to manage. The government backs the loans, but big money bought policies that puts all the risk on the kid and the government and locks in the interest rates.

I have a friend who's my age who borrowed 100k to get through grad school. He did volunteer work, peace corps and all manner of financially useless stuff in his 20s and put his loans into delayed payment status all while the interest accrued. if I'm not mistaken, the rate he was paying is close to 10% and all that time the clock just ticked as the rate went up.

He's been paying 6-800 per month for decades now and still has a ton of debt and no way to refi at a lower rate evidently. Somehow the law says you can't get a reduced rate and you can't bankrupt out of the debt.

It's ridiculous.

 

[coldseat]

I don't want people to "suffer like I suffered". I want to be able to stop "suffering" now to pay for other people's choices.

I get it. On the one hand, we want teachers and public servants to be able to get degrees and not be covered in debt. But on the other hand, I don't want to be paying for 100,000 art history degrees every year because kids make stupid decisions with their own lives. You want to get a modern dance degree from Julliard? Go for it! But I shouldn't be paying for it, particularly when I actually chose a boring marketable major with the understanding that I'd have to pay for my education.

Why is always assumed that people that went to college and have student loan debt got degrees in "gender studies" or "modern dance" or some other liberal arts degree that Republicans hate? As if all liberal arts degrees are worthless and people who got loans were only allowed to pick one of those degrees.

I realize that's a Republican taking point to cast a wide net of dispersion on anybody who went to college, but it doesn't need to be repeated ad nauseum, especially by people that actually went to college.

People who will get debt relief are in many fields that we need educated professionals in, including arts and social science. You can't address mental health issues without counselors and psychologist, just like we wouldn't have a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry without people in arts. It's all needed and we shouldn't be discouraging young adults from pursuing careers in those fields that require the requisite education to pursue.

 

[Joan's E]

Or, the people who have $10k cancelled suddenly have $10k in buying power they didn't have before, which stimulates the economy, which increases overall production, and suddenly, you actually make MORE money long-term because the economy is in much better shape when individuals are able to spend freely in the economy rather than making bankers rich with unending interest payments.

It's like investing in the police department. Yea, it's literally a money pit. The police department does not do anything economically except take money from the government. Yet, because they exist, other businesses are able to produce at a much higher level than if they didn't. Therefore, while the police isn't a direct economic driver, they indirectly allow others to produce at a much higher level, thereby increasing GDP and prosperity for everyone.

What about all of our spending power when our runaway debt drives that $10,000 in "savings" to only be worth a couple grand down the line due to inflation? And it dings those of us who paid our student debts off as well as keep paying off the ones now moving forward? It's basically making me pay thrice. Once for my degree, once for theirs, and then once for the decrease in buying power that our borrowing will cost to pay this back later.

 

[reubenray]

From a person that could not go to college due to not having the money to go where is this money coming from to forgive these student loans?

 

[Joan's E]

There isn't anything wrong with a communications degree.

No there's not. Unless I'm being forced to pay for it.

 

[samiam5211]

From a person that could not go to college due to not having the money to go where is this money coming from to forgive these student loans?

If we cut defense spending to pre 911 levels, it would free up around 400 billion dollars. That's a good start.