Student Loan Forgiveness (MERGED) (1 Viewer)

[el caliente]

Rumors floating around is that today President Biden will be canceling a portion of student loans. That’s fine and all, but what’s your take on it? If it truly is only $10k in forgiveness, is that enough to make much of an impact? Is student loan forgiveness just tax payer funded student loan bribery?

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[RegularChuck]

my daughter has a top 5 ranking at her high school. she is in all AP classes and Talented art. she did not make a B until freshman AP History. She plays sports for school and did so in middle school as well.

all that said "dad, I am not going to college unless it is 100% free and even then I will be done in 3 years" I asked what her plan was if she did not go to college and she said "anything but fall into debt"

She’s warning you that she’s never going to move out. Be careful.

 

[superchuck500]

After all, why does Harvard, Texas, or Stanford with their massive endowments make anyone who qualifies pay?

It definitely can be done. Last year, Brown University started using endowment to cover full tuition for all students from families with less than $125K in annual income, and full tuition plus full room and board plus expenses for students from families with less than $60K in annual income.

Brown to significantly expand financial aid and college access

Buoyed by endowment performance and strength in fundraising, the University will invest in three initiatives supporting undergraduates and Providence students.

www.brown.edu

 

[BrewDrees9]

She’s warning you that she’s never going to move out. Be careful.

lol she can live with her mother and visit me

 

[MT15]

I’m still chuckling at the thought that this $10-$20k is somehow life changing (even more so in this economy). The folks who will benefit most are going to still be salty that they have to pay their student loans, and thus, will probably be in the same situation 10 years from now as they were 10 years ago.

The amount of relief necessary for this to be life changing will need to be

If you cannot imagine how getting 10-20k in loan forgiveness can be life-changing especially when paired with the measure that will prevent your loans from ballooning again in the future, so that your payments will actually pay down the balance rather than merely partially service the debt, that’s on you.

I know the medical field primarily. Folks who change bed pans at the nursing home, who do the same in the hospital, who take your blood pressure and check you in at your doctor‘s appointment have to have schooling beyond high school. They often take out small loans, in that 10-20k range, to get that schooling. Their pay isn’t great - they often start out at 16-17 an hour, sometimes less in rural areas. When they defer payments or pay the minimum and their balance balloons to 30-40k, yes this will be life changing for them. Their dream is to often continue their schooling and become an RN or X-Ray tech or some other higher paid field. This debt keeps that from happening.

Chuckle away. The inability to imagine how another person is burdened is a modern failing in society in general.

 

[MT15]

I’m literally suggesting discharging loans after 10 years, an amount that may well exceed 20k. I want a plan not just a political payout.

I think that is literally one of the provisions in this plan. IIRC.

 

[Intensesaint]

I'm not a boomer but, these damn millennials want everything for free.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Of course a promissory note is property - the same way a good is property. The same way inventory is a property or unpaid invoices are property . . . . Come on.

The government can seize property in criminal cases after due process has been afforded. In the civil context the government has to pay for any property it seizes, which is what you would have in your scenario.

How about ‘hey banks, if taxpayers have ever bailed out your sorry butts, shut up about student loans”?

but muh shareholders

 

[MT15]

On another note - the Twitter trolling of every politician who bloviates about this student loan forgiveness with their forgiven PPP loans is kinda fun.

 

[JimEverett]

How about ‘hey banks, if taxpayers have ever bailed out your sorry butts, shut up about student loans”?

but muh shareholders

Yeah, all those pesky rights. Let's just get rid of them all.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

On another note - the Twitter trolling of every politician who bloviates about this student loan forgiveness with their forgiven PPP loans is kinda fun.

Ironically, no outrage about this kind of stuff as there is against the student debt relief... go figure..

 

[wardorican]

I'm not a boomer but, these damn millennials want everything for free.

His daughter would be too young to be a millenial. Gen Z, likely.

Also, you took the wrong message. Her point is that due to her academics, sports, accomplishments, she should be a student sought after for scholarships.

I'd say it depends more on what degree she would want. Some get more $$ thrown at them then others. Also depends on the school.

 

[brandon]

Pell grants and Stafford loans are means tested and provided prior to attending college. I’m advocating for an expansion of those programs vs a one-time Executive office payout for political purposes.

Uh, yea. This one is means tested, too. As in, if you make over a certain amount, you don't get the money. Does it matter if you get a grant before school begins or a forgiven loan after school ends? Functionally, and fiscally, they're identical.

I'm advocating for the reality that public universities, colleges, and trade schools should be free, because you can't get a good job in 2022 without a post-secondary education.

When that happens, you can bet that a full cancellation of all outstanding student debt will be part of the package.

And people will birch about that too, but it will pay off in the decades to come when we have a more educated and productive populace.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Yeah, all those pesky rights. Let's just get rid of them all.

Slow down commie, just want to get rid of the ones that suck

 

[Joan's E]

I don't want people to "suffer like I suffered". I want to be able to stop "suffering" now to pay for other people's choices.

I get it. On the one hand, we want teachers and public servants to be able to get degrees and not be covered in debt. But on the other hand, I don't want to be paying for 100,000 art history degrees every year because kids make stupid decisions with their own lives. You want to get a modern dance degree from Julliard? Go for it! But I shouldn't be paying for it, particularly when I actually chose a boring marketable major with the understanding that I'd have to pay for my education.

 

[dtc]

I would be more receptive if universities were not infested with postmodern crap. As it stands, I don't care to fund the demise of Western civilization with our tax dollars. We do too much of that already.

That's where the fraud is. Students go into college with healthy brains. They leave confused about which bathroom to use.

I know you're just joking, but it isn't funny that the undergraduate program that cost 14k / yr when I was there is now 65k per year. It's even less funny that a kid who got out of there with a 5 year MBA would start on wall street at just over 100k. That same degree will still get you 100k, but if you're 300k in debt it was a bad deal.

 

[brandon]

I don't want people to "suffer like I suffered". I want to be able to stop "suffering" now to pay for other people's choices.

I get it. On the one hand, we want teachers and public servants to be able to get degrees and not be covered in debt. But on the other hand, I don't want to be paying for 100,000 art history degrees every year because kids make stupid decisions with their own lives. You want to get a modern dance degree from Julliard? Go for it! But I shouldn't be paying for it, particularly when I actually chose a boring marketable major with the understanding that I'd have to pay for my education.

You're gonna pay like 3 cents a year. Calm down.

You can't get a good job without post-secondary education (yes, including trade schools). Someone has to pay for that. It would be better for society if we all chipped in our 3 cents a year, rather than saddling everyone with 10k+ worth of debt.

 

[FullMonte]

I know you're just joking, but it isn't funny that the undergraduate program that cost 14k / yr when I was there is now 65k per year. It's even less funny that a kid who got out of there with a 5 year MBA would start on wall street at just over 100k. That same degree will still get you 100k, but if you're 300k in debt it was a bad deal.

I would disagree. If I could invest $300k one time to get a $100k per year job, that would likely be a good investment. Let's say you could borrow $300,000 today, and you could invest it in something that would pay you $100,000 a year for the next 40 years (and likely increase fairly regularly), would you take it? I mean, you could comfortably live like someone making $60k per year, and pay the loan back in 8 years.

The bigger problem in a lot of cases (especially with advanced degrees) is that people immediately adopt a lifestyle that goes with that new job, which makes it difficult to pay back the loan rapidly. Take doctors. In 2016, the average medical school debt was $190,000. In 2018, the average salary of a doctor was $299,000 year. If a kid fresh out of medical school was making $200,000 per year as a new doctor, and lived like someone making $70,000 per year, they could pay off their $190,000 student loan in about three years. The problem is when that fresh doctor lives like someone making $200,000 per year, and takes decades to pay off their loans.

I'm not saying that's always the case, but it happens fairly regularly.

 

[Joan's E]

The feeling i get from most who are upset about this are basically mad someone is getting money and not them..lol

Yeah, and what's wrong with that? Particularly when the "get nots" are underwriting the "gets".

Taxation is basically taking money at gunpoint. What this boils down to is government taking money at gunpoint and then giving it to someone who made a conscious decision to undertake a financial obligation and, well, just doesn't want to pay it back anymore because they didn't realize their art history degree wasn't going to make them an instant millionaire. Philosophically, I think that's problematic.

Now again, I'm reaping a benefit from this program, so I'm not nearly as broken up about it as I could be.