Should transgender women have access to cis female sexual and reproductive healthcare? (1 Viewer)

[Intensesaint]

Meaning, do you believe that trans women should be afforded access to gynecologists where they can get pelvic exams, cervical screenings, or exams because they want to take female based contraceptives?

The National Center for Transgender Equality believes this.

Page not found | A4TE

transequality.org

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I agree that, for example, a transgender woman should have access to a prostate exam - assuming that is still medically relevant.

Part of the problem may be with the terminology. For example, the literature that was attached said that transgender women who have sex with men may be at risk for pregnancy.

My understanding who we refer to as a "transgender woman" is a biological male who is transitioning to a "woman." If that's correct, then there is no risk of pregnancy.

I read the link submitted by the OP. The only mentions of pregnancy risk were for transgender men and transgender teens. Nowhere that I saw did the information provided state that transgender women were at any risk of pregnancy.

 

[samiam5211]

So, the real question is, should insurance/MedicAid be forced to pay for unnecessary medical procedures for people who want them?

The answer is no.

We have enough issues as it is giving people the medical procedures they need.

I think the question is the potential cost to tax payers worth having a fight over trans rights.

That’s what this is about. It is not a big enough deal to care about unless you want to fight a culture war against trans.

How much does the VA spend on Viagria prescriptions? I bet it’s more than trans paps would ever come close to.

 

[Intensesaint]

I bet it’s more than trans paps would ever come close to.

What in the world are they doing a Pap Smear on?

Should actual medical supplies and a doctor's time be wasted on this?

 

[Beach Friends]

I think the question is the potential cost to tax payers worth having a fight over trans rights.

That’s what this is about. It is not a big enough deal to care about unless you want to fight a culture war against trans.

How much does the VA spend on Viagria prescriptions? I bet it’s more than trans paps would ever come close to.

Yeah, and they probably spend more on lung cancer treatment too. What is the relevance?

 

[Beach Friends]

I read the link submitted by the OP. The only mentions of pregnancy risk were for transgender men and transgender teens. Nowhere that I saw did the information provided state that transgender women were at any risk of pregnancy.

You are correct, I misread the text at footnote 6.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

What in the world are they doing a Pap Smear on?

Should actual medical supplies and a doctor's time be wasted on this?

Waste and improper consumption as a general matter in healthcare should always be avoided and minimized.

But you aren’t making that argument, you are only focusing on transgender people supposedly doing it.

Why?

As you have neither substantiated why it is a major problem relative to other forms of waste or improper consumption, nor explained why it is deserving of singularly focusing on? For instance you could easily focus on abstinence only policies that raise the rate of disease, pregnancy, and conditions born of sexual ignorance affecting woman that also presumably strain medical resources and supply chains, and likely in greater capacity than transgendered misuse does or would. Choosing to singularly hyperfocus on one thing suggests almost without alternative that your central grievance is in fact with the target and not the broader issue you are appealing to but ignoring everything else in its entiriety.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

What in the world are they doing a Pap Smear on?

Should actual medical supplies and a doctor's time be wasted on this?

The point being made in the link is that trans people need medical care based on their physical bodies and shouldn’t have to face discrimination when trying to access that care.

 

[Intensesaint]

What in the world are they doing a Pap Smear on?

Should actual medical supplies and a doctor's time be wasted on this?

The point being made in the link is that trans people need medical care based on their physical bodies and shouldn’t have to face discrimination when trying to access that care.

And that is absolutely fine based on their actual biological bodies. If a women transitions to a man and still has a vagina and cervix, they should be able to have access to pap smears absolutely. But a man who transitions to a woman has absolutely no need for a pap smear.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

And that is absolutely fine based on their actual biological bodies. If a women transitions to a man and still has a vagina and cervix, they should be able to have access to pap smears absolutely. But a man who transitions to a woman has absolutely no need for a pap smear.

I haven’t seen anyone make that argument, so why focus on it?

 

[samiam5211]

And that is absolutely fine based on their actual biological bodies. If a women transitions to a man and still has a vagina and cervix, they should be able to have access to pap smears absolutely. But a man who transitions to a woman has absolutely no need for a pap smear.

You’re probably right that they wouldn’t need a Pap smear, but we’re not doctors. It is not for either of us to decide.

I think an ethical doctor wouldn’t provide an unnecessary procedure. If there are examples of doctors providing and billing insurance for procedures that the medical community as a whole says are unnecessary, we should be discussing those specific examples and looking at holding those doctors accountable.

 

[Beach Friends]

The point being made in the link is that trans people need medical care based on their physical bodies and shouldn’t have to face discrimination when trying to access that care.

And I think that is an issue that is worth addressing. A transgender woman should be able to get a prostate exam and not be reluctant about that at all. We should all be able to agree on that.

I think where the confusion lies is when, for example, Castro said during the debates that abortion rights should extend to transgender women. That's the sort of statement that leads to people resenting the discussion and I think is counterproductive to addressing legitimate issues, such as the one I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps Castro misspoke. If he did, he should correct himself if he hasn't already. (I hope I am not having a faulty memory of what he said).

 

[samiam5211]

And I think that is an issue that is worth addressing. A transgender woman should be able to get a prostate exam and not be reluctant about that at all. We should all be able to agree on that.

I think where the confusion lies is when, for example, Castro said during the debates that abortion rights should extend to transgender women. That's the sort of statement that leads to people resenting the discussion and I think is counterproductive to addressing legitimate issues, such as the one I mentioned in the above paragraph. Perhaps Castro misspoke. If he did, he should correct himself if he hasn't already. (I hope I am not having a faulty memory of what he said).

I will agree with you that Castro shouldn’t have said that about trans having abortion rights. I don’t think it was intentional. I think it unnecessarily escalated the discussion. Plenty of ways to discuss trans rights without throwing in a side of abortion.

Remember thinking at the time it was like he was playing woke madlibs.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

I haven’t seen anyone make that argument, so why focus on it?

Deleted my last post because I didn’t want to derail with speculation, but it is quite the leap to go from that link to what is being asserted.

To the point that unless the OP has something else to offer, he’s basically tilting at windmills.

 

[lurk]

Is the patient's hormone replacement therapy being regulated by the gynecologist? Gynecologists often regulate cis women's hormone therapy.

Is the patient's breast health as it relates to cancer screening being overseen by a gynecologist? This is almost always overseen by a gynecologist in cis women who have not yet had cancer, and someone on HRT is just as at risk as a cis woman, possibly moreso depending on their biology (hell, even breast cancer numbers in regular men are rapidly rising due to increased estrogen exposure in daily life).

Has the patient had male-to-female pelvic surgery? If so, then there is as much of a reason for that person to have a pelvic exam by a physician who routinely does pelvic exams as there is for anyone else to have one.

The bigger question here is why is it any of your business to have to know the answer to these questions before you can permit another human being to see a physician who specializes in treating the medical problems they're experiencing? When you get very sick one day and insurance denies you coverage for the treatments that will help your problem because they decide they know more about medicine and your body than you and your physician do, I hope you'll remember this thread. Maybe then you'll understand that things have devolved the way they have because many found it more appropriate to stand against their fellow humans rather than uniting and demanding dignified treatment for all human beings. Right now you think it doesn't matter because you see yourself as part of the club rather than part of the "others". Your bank account will show you how big of a lie that is some day. Unfortunately, by then it will be too late for you to change anything. /soapbox

 

[Intensesaint]

Is the patient's hormone replacement therapy being regulated by the gynecologist? Gynecologists often regulate cis women's hormone therapy.

Is the patient's breast health as it relates to cancer screening being overseen by a gynecologist? This is almost always overseen by a gynecologist in cis women who have not yet had cancer, and someone on HRT is just as at risk as a cis woman, possibly moreso depending on their biology (hell, even breast cancer numbers in regular men are rapidly rising due to increased estrogen exposure in daily life).

Has the patient had male-to-female pelvic surgery? If so, then there is as much of a reason for that person to have a pelvic exam by a physician who routinely does pelvic exams as there is for anyone else to have one.

The bigger question here is why is it any of your business to have to know the answer to these questions before you can permit another human being to see a physician who specializes in treating the medical problems they're experiencing? When you get very sick one day and insurance denies you coverage for the treatments that will help your problem because they decide they know more about medicine and your body than you and your physician do, I hope you'll remember this thread. Maybe then you'll understand that things have devolved the way they have because many found it more appropriate to stand against their fellow humans rather than uniting and demanding dignified treatment for all human beings. Right now you think it doesn't matter because you see yourself as part of the club rather than part of the "others". Your bank account will show you how big of a lie that is some day. Unfortunately, by then it will be too late for you to change anything. /soapbox

I appreciate the virtue signaling(not really), but the fact remains that it is inane for the medical industry to preform female biological specific procedures on trans females. They might as well have imaginary tea time while they are at it.

 

[dtc]

Why should we allow doctors conduct and charge for procedures that we know are not medically necessary?

That doesn't seem like we are being good stewards of the taxpayers money.

We allow doctors to perform all manner of unnecessary procedures and they charge whatever they want or whatever they can get for it all the time. Medicare pays for freaking Viagra from what I understand and a sprained wrist will result in an MRI if you're not lucky so why should we be telling anyone what they can and can't have as long as it's making the doctors rich?


(Sort of kidding...)

 

[SystemShock]

I think the question is the potential cost to tax payers worth having a fight over trans rights.

That’s what this is about. It is not a big enough deal to care about unless you want to fight a culture war against trans.

Only if you want to erroneously label it as a fight over trans rights.

Then there is the potential cost to tax payers footing other bills because this group or that group, or this individual or that individual want to have pretend medical procedures on tax payers' money.

That sounds harsh, but it is the reality of it. Someone without a cervix asking for a pap smear, even if born XX, it is a pretend medical exam. There is nothing to examine.

It's no different from someone with no eyes asking for an eye exam.

If you want to get pretend medical care on your dime and find a doctor unscrupulous enough to take your money, be my guest, have at it.

But don't demand pretend medical procedures as rights and that MedicAid pay for it.

How much does the VA spend on Viagria prescriptions? I bet it’s more than trans paps would ever come close to.

I have no idea. I only hope they are giving the Viagra to individuals with working penises and testicles.

 

[samiam5211]

I appreciate the virtue signaling(not really), but the fact remains that it is inane for the medical industry to preform female biological specific procedures on trans females. They might as well have imaginary tea time while they are at it.

Only if you want to erroneously label it as a fight over trans rights.

Then there is the potential cost to tax payers footing other bills because this group or that group want to have pretend medical procedures on tax payers' money. That sounds harsh, but it is the reality of it. Someone without a cervix asking for a pap smear, it is a pretend medical exam. There is nothing to examine.

It's no different from someone with no eyes asking for an eye exam.

If you want to get pretend medical care on your dime and find a doctor unscrupulous enough to take your money, be my guest, have at it.

But don't demand pretend medical procedures as rights and that MedicAid pay for it.



I have no idea. I only hope they are giving the Viagra to individuals with working penises and testicles.

If we are going to discuss this as a misuse of resources issue, I think it is important to make sure resources are actually being misused.

Does anyone have any example of or statistics involving how much is wasted on unnecessary Pap smears for trans people?

This is only being given attention because it furthers division over a culture war issue.

People on both sides are going to be emotionally fighting over it so disproportionately to its relevance when that energy could be spent on much more meaningful misuse of resources.