Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (4 Viewers)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[DaveXA]

Making abortions illegal in some states won't stop women from getting them. It will make it a lot harder in those states, and it will put the poor in those states at a greater risk of harm during an abortion if they can get one because they won't be able to afford to travel to a state with liberal laws and medically safe abortions. Banning abortions will produce a lose lose situation.

Well, clearly it won't be a nationwide ban, although if that ever happened it would be really terrible, and I would think throwing the bums our would happen at that point.

I get it though, there should be limits on state power and they shouldn't be depriving people of their rights, and I consider abortion a medical procedure. Codify it and make health care a Constitutionally guaranteed right and I'd feel better about where we are.

Clearly abortions will continue regardless so I think the court has take that into consideration in their decision.

 

[DaveXA]

Well, the point was imagine publicly scolding the public about being unhappy with the Court’s decision, all the while your wife was scheming to change the results of an election in which you and she didn’t like the outcome. This court is a mess.

Yeah, I get that, but I separate Thomas and his wife's views. They probably overlap a lot, but I suspect Thomas isn't a fan of her involvement with all that because it makes his job more difficult. But idk. I think it's well past time for him to retire tho.

 

[MT15]

Yeah, I get that, but I separate Thomas and his wife's views. They probably overlap a lot, but I suspect Thomas isn't a fan of her involvement with all that because it makes his job more difficult. But idk. I think it's well past time for him to retire tho.

I have read that they are very close and refer to each other as their best friends. Ginni had a text to Meadows about the “stolen” election where she was discussing ways to overturn it and she said she felt better after talking to her best friend. I think their views probably align very closely. I know this isn’t proof, but I’m done giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Farb]

No such thing.

Then why the demand for access to condoms and birth control at schools?

 

[Farb]

Not true at all. You’ve been shown in this thread how often the people supporting these bans quote their religion. It’s overwhelmingly the majority of people on the anti-abortion side. That you insist this is not the case really undercuts your credibility here.

No, you guys are saying all pro-life is based on a person's religious view, I am pushing back against that.

And lets face, I have no credibility here anyway. LOL

 

[Farb]

Well, the point was imagine publicly scolding the public about being unhappy with the Court’s decision, all the while your wife was scheming to change the results of an election in which you and she didn’t like the outcome. This court is a mess.

Is his wife a democrat that lives in Georgia, or did she vote for Clinton? I seem to remember a lot of Dems claiming cheating and rigged elections in the past too.

 

[Farb]

Yeah, I get that, but I separate Thomas and his wife's views. They probably overlap a lot, but I suspect Thomas isn't a fan of her involvement with all that because it makes his job more difficult. But idk. I think it's well past time for him to retire tho.

He will, in 2 to 3 years.

 

[DaveXA]

I have read that they are very close and refer to each other as their best friends. Ginni had a text to Meadows about the “stolen” election where she was discussing ways to overturn it and she said she felt better after talking to her best friend. I think their views probably align very closely. I know this isn’t proof, but I’m done giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

Fair enough. That's pretty reasonable.

 

[DaveXA]

He will, in 2 to 3 years.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if he's simply waiting for the next Presidential election to conclude before retiring. Or he could be waiting for mid-terms because if the Republicans get a majority, they'll just prevent Biden from picking who he wants, or even hold it over until the '24 election.

 

[SFIDC3]

I'm not a fan of Thomas, but I do agree with the sentiment. As a society I think we have to live with the decisions of the court whether we like it or not. If enough people don't like the decision, then change the law. I do think it says something that 50 years after Roe, abortion rights hasn't been codified or protections put in place to head off it being challenged in the courts.

His wife is nuts tho.

I don't....at all....we have a bunch of religious wackos on the SC right now that want to overturn a decision that is supported by the vast majority of the people....I mean, where does it end if this happens? I feel this is one of the worse separation of church and state violations that is possible.....anyone who doesn't think this has to do with religious beliefs for the vast majority of anti abortion folks is being disingenious or is delusional...

If the SC goes through with this decision somethings going to give....in a very bad way IMO.....

 

[DaveXA]

I don't....at all....we have a bunch of religious wackos on the SC right now that want to overturn a decision that is supported by the vast majority of the people....I mean, where does it end if this happens? I feel this is one of the worse separation of church and state violations that is possible.....anyone who doesn't think this has to do with religious beliefs for the vast majority of anti abortion folks is being disingenious or is delusional...

If the SC goes through with this decision somethings going to give....in a very bad way IMO.....

Eh, we'll survive. Eventually the pendulum is going to swing back pretty quickly to Roe when we start seeing the outcomes of women dying because they couldn't get quick care during an ectopic pregnancy or something similar.

Fwiw, SCOTUS hasn't handed down a decision, so while I get the sense Roe will be overturned, there's still an outside chance it could be upheld.

Fwiw, elections have consequences. We as a country elected Trump and now have to deal with the fallout. The only alternative for the 60% of the population who support choice have to participate in the electoral process and vote in those who will legalize abortion at the national level.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Article on the media’s role
====================
…….“One of the great successes of the antiabortion movement was to stigmatize a very common medical procedure,” he told me this week, “and to put people who defend abortion rights on the defensive.”

And part of that, he thinks, lies in the power of language — and a failure of media.


An award-winning journalist and author, Eyal Press knows a thing or two about how words can be deployed, or weaponized.

When journalists agreed to accept terms such as “pro-life” to describe those who oppose abortion, they implicitly agreed to help stigmatize those who support it.

After all, what’s the rhetorical opposite of “pro-life”?……


In the process, the issue of abortion has been “ripped out of context.”

Too often, he said, the policies of those who oppose abortion fail to support life — including young life — in other ways.

For example, the right has generally not supported strong gun-control measures despite the increasing prevalence of school shootings, nor has it shown much dismay over high infant and maternal mortality rates, especially for poor women and children.


Journalists need to do a better job of connecting these dots, he said. They should “unpack just what ‘pro-life’ means.”
He also objects to the term “abortion doctors,” since it concentrates on only one aspect of a doctor’s OB/GYN care.

It would be like referring to orthopedic physicians as “ACL doctors,” except that it is much more negative. “This is a case where the media fell in line with a stigma label.”


Similarly troubling, he said, has been what’s happened in medicine itself, where medical schools and hospitals have been reluctant to train physicians to perform abortions, despite how common a procedure it is.

In a recent New York Times opinion piece, Press criticized “the passivity and silence of the medical establishment, of medical school deans and hospital officials, and of too many (privately) pro-choice physicians.”…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/05/media-pro-life-abortion-rights-rhetoric-fail-eyal-press/

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Article on the media’s role
====================
…….“One of the great successes of the antiabortion movement was to stigmatize a very common medical procedure,” he told me this week, “and to put people who defend abortion rights on the defensive.”

And part of that, he thinks, lies in the power of language — and a failure of media.


An award-winning journalist and author, Eyal Press knows a thing or two about how words can be deployed, or weaponized.

When journalists agreed to accept terms such as “pro-life” to describe those who oppose abortion, they implicitly agreed to help stigmatize those who support it.

After all, what’s the rhetorical opposite of “pro-life”?……


In the process, the issue of abortion has been “ripped out of context.”

Too often, he said, the policies of those who oppose abortion fail to support life — including young life — in other ways.

For example, the right has generally not supported strong gun-control measures despite the increasing prevalence of school shootings, nor has it shown much dismay over high infant and maternal mortality rates, especially for poor women and children.


Journalists need to do a better job of connecting these dots, he said. They should “unpack just what ‘pro-life’ means.”
He also objects to the term “abortion doctors,” since it concentrates on only one aspect of a doctor’s OB/GYN care.

It would be like referring to orthopedic physicians as “ACL doctors,” except that it is much more negative. “This is a case where the media fell in line with a stigma label.”


Similarly troubling, he said, has been what’s happened in medicine itself, where medical schools and hospitals have been reluctant to train physicians to perform abortions, despite how common a procedure it is.

In a recent New York Times opinion piece, Press criticized “the passivity and silence of the medical establishment, of medical school deans and hospital officials, and of too many (privately) pro-choice physicians.”…….

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/05/media-pro-life-abortion-rights-rhetoric-fail-eyal-press/

Was wondering about this and to what degree these new anti abortion laws are violations of the 13th amendment
Not everyone on the right will be shamed by a pro-slavery charge, but maybe enough

 

[SFIDC3]

Eh, we'll survive. Eventually the pendulum is going to swing back pretty quickly to Roe when we start seeing the outcomes of women dying because they couldn't get quick care during an ectopic pregnancy or something similar.

Fwiw, SCOTUS hasn't handed down a decision, so while I get the sense Roe will be overturned, there's still an outside chance it could be upheld.

Fwiw, elections have consequences. We as a country elected Trump and now have to deal with the fallout. The only alternative for the 60% of the population who support choice have to participate in the electoral process and vote in those who will legalize abortion at the national level.

I don't get that sense....I also think you are being incredibly naive here, I think if Roe is overturned you are going to see a real uptick in violence....

My only hope (and it is a faint one) is that the Republican party eventually implodes.....one of the few things Larry Hogan is right about is that the party needs a new and better direction....

 

[MT15]

Eh, we'll survive. Eventually the pendulum is going to swing back pretty quickly to Roe when we start seeing the outcomes of women dying because they couldn't get quick care during an ectopic pregnancy or something similar.

Dave, I respect you a lot, but those two sentences are messed up.

 

[DaveXA]

Dave, I respect you a lot, but those two sentences are messed up.

Well, it is a messed up situation. If it's true, it's true.

 

[MT15]

Well, it is a messed up situation. If it's true, it's true.

Obviously there will be women who won’t survive. I don’t think that is an Eh, moment.

 

[DaveXA]

I don't get that sense....I also think you are being incredibly naive here, I think if Roe is overturned you are going to see a real uptick in violence....

My only hope (and it is a faint one) is that the Republican party eventually implodes.....one of the few things Larry Hogan is right about is that the party needs a new and better direction....

I didn't say there wouldn't be severe consequences. I'm just saying that it will swing back the other way when those consequences are clear.