Republicans (or former Rs) against Trump (1 Viewer)

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MT15

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This is gaining momentum, pretty fast, it might be good to keep track of this movement.

This thread is from a thoughtful conservative that I follow on Twitter, and I generally enjoy seeing his takes:



Its a whole thread, so you will have to click on it to see the rest of his posts. I don’t know how to post the entire thread.
 

Woohoosaint

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Care to comment on the generals? Specifically Mattis is very recent. What about Murkowski?

I think the feud with Mitt only goes back to the impeachment vote. Before that, Trump was tweeting in praise of Mitt. I feel sure I could find a tweet in support Romney.

I think most Rs who hold elected office feel exactly the same about Trump, but they are afraid to cross him during their terms in office.
Wrong again...

 

Woohoosaint

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Care to comment on the generals? Specifically Mattis is very recent. What about Murkowski?

I think the feud with Mitt only goes back to the impeachment vote. Before that, Trump was tweeting in praise of Mitt. I feel sure I could find a tweet in support Romney.

I think most Rs who hold elected office feel exactly the same about Trump, but they are afraid to cross him during their terms in office.
This pretty much sums it up...

Interestingly it's like a Who's Who of the architects of the Iraq War.
 

Richard

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Woohoo- did you support the Iraq War at the beginning?
I am not speaking for Woohoo, but I did. I believed that the reasons we were given for the war's justification were valid and that they represented a threat to our national security. Obviously I was wrong, as was a majority of congressmen and probably a majority of the American people. A lot of revisionists will say that they were against it from the beginning, but I heard very few voices expressing firm opposition. When Bush began the Shock and Awe campaign however, I was saddened by the death and destruction and wondered if the whole thing couldn't have been avoided. Still, I supported the president, prayed for our troops and the Iraqi people and hoped for a swift end to US involvement there. I am still waiting.
 

brandon

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I am not speaking for Woohoo, but I did. I believed that the reasons we were given for the war's justification were valid and that they represented a threat to our national security. Obviously I was wrong, as was a majority of congressmen and probably a majority of the American people. A lot of revisionists will say that they were against it from the beginning, but I heard very few voices expressing firm opposition. When Bush began the Shock and Awe campaign however, I was saddened by the death and destruction and wondered if the whole thing couldn't have been avoided. Still, I supported the president, prayed for our troops and the Iraqi people and hoped for a swift end to US involvement there. I am still waiting.
I was for it in the beginning, as well.

It's also part of the reason I'm a liberal today.
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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I was for it in the beginning, as well.

It's also part of the reason I'm a liberal today.
Similar to me. I supported it initially, even went over there (as a contractor, not military). Had severe reservations about going it alone, but also thought there was a good geopolitical argument to doing it.

The fact that so many guys could have been so spectacularly wrong about it (ie, it will pay for itself, roses in the streets, etc), and no one was held responsible started to sour me on the Republican party. It provided one of those moments to take a step back and re-examine everything.
 

Taurus

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Woohoo- did you support the Iraq War at the beginning?
Also, not speaking for Woohoo.

I was against it from the start simply because we weren't done in Afghanistan yet and deliberately starting a second front is the height of idiocy.
Not only was Iraq a lie, it was godawful military strategy.
 

TraumaRN

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I was for it, same reasons. The middle east is complicated and will always be. So many issues are rooted in poverty and lack of democracy as well as the inclusion of women (we are not so quick to send our babies thoughtlessly to war). Historic issues with Israel. Radical islamic teachings keep them back too. Crooked leaders and impoverished people with no power are a bad combo. Would have been nice to have had better intelligence. One more time I am reminded you can be sincere yet sincerely wrong. Funny, I bet now "the chicks" look a little avant garde like Kapernick?
 

CoolBrees

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My ultimate point wasn’t really about the Iraq War but more about where we received our information pre and post Iraq War.

I maintain that there was a schism of news from news entertainment and this is when it occurred. Choosing to receive news from sources that have been carrying the water for any cause or ethos despite the fact they have been identified as a group willing to push narrative over news, is going to give one a slanted view.

For me, there is a lot to be gained from understanding the perspective. For instance, many have said that they were for the Iraq War initially but not later. That is what I would hope any rational person would do in any situation where new information became available- change their mind to match facts. But when sources of information are shown to hold bias, and these sources continue to be the only source of one’s information, it stands to reason that the individual is susceptible to manipulation.
 

TraumaRN

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My ultimate point wasn’t really about the Iraq War but more about where we received our information pre and post Iraq War.

I maintain that there was a schism of news from news entertainment and this is when it occurred. Choosing to receive news from sources that have been carrying the water for any cause or ethos despite the fact they have been identified as a group willing to push narrative over news, is going to give one a slanted view.

For me, there is a lot to be gained from understanding the perspective. For instance, many have said that they were for the Iraq War initially but not later. That is what I would hope any rational person would do in any situation where new information became available- change their mind to match facts. But when sources of information are shown to hold bias, and these sources continue to be the only source of one’s information, it stands to reason that the individual is susceptible to manipulation.
Spot on. That is why I think it dangerous to only watch Fox news or CNN (opinion). I consume it all, hard news (papers and the evening news which are biased but generally more accurate and fact checked), Plus some CNN, MSNBC, FOX especially when there is a lot happening in the world. And a variety of papers, the Hill, the NYT, Washington post, and local. It is my responsibility to have informed opinions, and to adjust with new information.

The whole Covid thing annoys me in that regard. The "but they were wrong about masks" whining. First they lied to you for good reason. If masks did not work, nurses would not have been wearing them. The degree of protection is better than we could have ever hoped it turns out which was not known. It is "novel". The science will keep getting better and we need to adjust. What is so confusing about that? Sorry I am an RN and it is especially annoying right now with our area getting slammed. Not being able to course adjust, or to say I made an error in judgement makes you no less wrong. It simply means you are more likely to do it again.
 

SFIDC3

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Also, not speaking for Woohoo.

I was against it from the start simply because we weren't done in Afghanistan yet and deliberately starting a second front is the height of idiocy.
Not only was Iraq a lie, it was godawful military strategy.
I can honestly say I was against it....what cemented it was that silly, foolish, display attempting to show evidence that Iraq had "weapons of mass destruction", it was so obviously staged....I'm more pessimistic than most and think Cheney and Bush wanted this war for different reasons (Bush wanted to get Saddam because of his failed attempt to kill his dad and Cheney to enrich Halliburton)....
 

TraumaRN

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I started watching BBC after trump was elected to see what people outside of the US thought about what was going on. It has been a sobering experience to see foreigners openly laughing at and feeling sorry for the US.
Netflix special called Nanette I never saw, watched the FU which I did not get into, but she said something interesting (love BBC BTW and can't get it anymore, bummer!). She said even teasing Americans was considered "punching up", but not so much now. Our opportunities are terrific, our system of government affords the opportunity for change, but our people could be kinder and less self absorbed. We could talk and work together. We could INFORM OURSELVES more before we say stupid things, apologize more easily when we mess up, and forgive those who are trying. And that to me is the crux of cancel culture. Did you make a mistake, or do you still think and conduct yourself that way? If the latter bye bye. If the former stick around and tell me how you changed, no? Cuz others might catch on. That is in reference to people, confederate monuments must go IMO, all of them.
 

Saintamaniac

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That is in reference to people, confederate monuments must go IMO, all of them.
Not to derail the topic but confederate monuments should never have existed in the first place. The whole reason for erecting confederate monuments was nefarious to begin with.
 

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