Republican Assault on Public Education (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for all these policies that will weaken public education, and there are several billionaires who also want to dismantle public education. Public education may have its faults, but it is responsible for an amazing amount of upward mobility. Kids from poor areas can still get a college prep education in a public school.

Vouchers (sometimes disguised as “school choice”) are a particular peeve of mine. Public money is diverted from poor schools to wealthy private schools, which aren’t required to offer accommodations for special needs or challenged students. Families with special needs kids are left out. Rural areas often suffer disproportionately because there are no private schools to attend, but their public schools still see the reduction in funding. Often the families who take advantage of the voucher money are upper class and the private schools simply raise tuition knowing the families are getting taxpayer money now.

Greg Abbot is being particularly vile in this area. No surprise. Voters will have to make a statement about public education. If we want to halt the growing divide in this country between the “haves” and “have-nots”, we need to pay attention to public education.

 

[TampaJoe]

So the answer is that you are fine with the policies. That’s too bad. I can’t say I’m all that surprised though.

No. I didn’t say that. But I am not all that surprised that you would represent otherwise.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I answered the whole Neo Nazi question several times. You either do not understand English or you just don’t like the answer.

You've used this line so many times it's meaningless and it's obvious to everyone that you use a lot of words to say nothing at all. Just be like Chappelle and plead the 5th.

I do not know whom Neo Nazis vote for nor do I care.

You do know, because you have been shown several times. You just refuse to accept reality. You said so yourself.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

What is funny to me is that you guys are the ones doing all the “tap dancing”.

Definitely a "I know you are but what am I" child.

You are bending over backwards implying that the GOP is either Neo Nazi or heavily influenced by Neo Nazi. It is apparent that is what you are driving at but you can’t being yourself to say. You will bend over backwards claiming that is not what you are saying.

It's most definitely what I've not only said, but have also shown to be true. You just refuse to accept reality. You said so yourself.

You are more obsessed with who the Neo Nazis are supporting and in the meantime you can’t figure out how you lost the last election.

No one here lost an election, because no one here ran for office. What you are clearly demonstrating Joe is you have a highly tribal word view of "if you're not with us then you're against us." You don't see individuals for the individuals that they are.

That's probably why you're okay with individuals being abducted and imprisoned without due process. You don't see any of the individuals as individuals. They aren't actually individual human beings to you. They are all just "them" to you, so whatever happens to them is okay with you.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Here is a real world example from a few years ago that people had to think about
====================
You (the royal you in general, not you specifically) are against removing Confederate statues.

You hate slavery and racism but many have been up for nearly a century and genuinely believe they are a part of the fabric and history of the city.

You also believe they are beautiful works of civic art that should be preserved

You go to a rally/protest and find yourself surrounded by people wearing ‘the south will rise again’ confederate flag T shirts. Shirts with swastikas, shirts with KKK logos, Camp Auswitz shirts

At that point you really should do some soul searching and at least wonder why you and those people support the same thing

You may have different reasons and rationale for supporting the same thing but you support the same thing

And fair or not you’ll be judged for supporting the same thing

There are times that means something and times it doesn’t

From being on the SR site for over 20 years there are plenty of people I don’t like with views I can’t stand who are bigger New Orleans Saints fans than I am

That doesn’t mean anything or say anything about the Saints, them or me

‘Hey you like the saints and this racist jerk likes the saints too!’

So what?

But there are issues when the answer isn’t just ‘so what’, it can’t be

‘Hey, you want to keep these statues up and so do these neo nazis and KKK members!’

So what, isn’t quite a sufficient answer

 

[Dragon]

Definitely a "I know you are but what am I" child.

It's most definitely what I've not only said, but have also shown to be true. You just refuse to accept reality. You said so yourself.


No one here lost an election, because no one here ran for office. What you are clearly demonstrating Joe is you have a highly tribal word view of "if you're not with us then you're against us." You don't see individuals for the individuals that they are.

That's probably why you're okay with individuals being abducted and imprisoned without due process. You don't see any of the individuals as individuals. They aren't actually individual human beings to you. They are all just "them" to you, so whatever happens to them is okay with you.

He never once said he was against the way ice is breaking the law, violently beating people who happen to fit a certain demographic. Nor has he said anything against deporting people to foreign prisons to be torturen or killed for overstaying a Visa.

 

[MT15]

No. I didn’t say that. But I am not all that surprised that you would represent otherwise.

So the only conclusion I can come to is that the human rights violations, the discrimination against groups of people, the illegal arrests, the violation of constitutional rights are not all that important to you. The petty canceling of important medical grants to study disease, the anti-vaccine lies being pushed, the deliberate decision made to destroy rations rather then give them to hungry children in Africa, the petty weaponization of the DOJ to go after law firms for who their clients were, the petty weaponization of the DOJ to go after news organizations in order to regulate their speech. The tariffs which punish US businesses and taxpayers, the weakening of all means of oversight that would help regulate abuses of power by the Executive.

Because every single moral principled conservative I know has decided they can no longer vote for the GOP as it currently stands. But you have made no such decision, in fact you actively reject that and will continue to vote for Trump’s party. You think because you wouldn’t vote for Trump, your hands are clean. That just couldn’t be further from the truth IMO. All of these things listed above are being supported by the GOP. They are active participants in them.

The above is the only conclusion I can reasonably come to. If any of the abuses and corruption listed above were important you couldn’t continue to vote for the GOP. I’m not saying you have to vote for the Democratic candidates, but you couldn’t vote for Trump’s party. Which is all that is left of the GOP.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Whenever one or both of the houses of Congress are controlled by the same party as POTUS, it is always difficult to “check” POTUS. It’s frustrating. But that’s our process.

No one has done the corrupt and unconstitutional things that Trump has. The Republicans forced Nixon to resign. You're talking bullshirt as usual.

Of course, the courts are always an option as well to resolve legal disputes.

Trump has openly defied court orders and have lied to the court. What we are seeing is that the courts have no power if the president is willing to defy the courts and Congress lets him do it.

It's immoral to keep making invalid excuses for what Trump and the Republicans are doing.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

He never once said he was against the way ice is breaking the law, violently beating people who happen to fit a certain demographic. Nor has he said anything against deporting people to foreign prisons to be torturen or killed for overstaying a Visa.

He's obviously okay with it, but doesn't have the courage to say he's okay with it. It's funny, because he's ranted to several of us to "say what you mean about Nazi's and the Republicans."

Notice how he doesn't beat around the bush when it comes to sharing his thoughts on why "we" lost the election to Trump twice and he's obviously humble bragging about that. He's a full on Trump supporter, that doesn't have the courage to own it. That's understandable, because Trump and Republican leaders are cowards as well. They talk a mean game, but TACO.

I just pointed out to him that I said very loud and very clearly what I think about that and reminded him that he's not telling the truth when he says he doesn't know anything about it, because he's responded to several posts in that had credible, verified information detailing the connections between Neo Nazi's and Republicans.

He admitted that he refuses to accept those facts and reality. Unfortunately, he's lost his way.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I clearly understand what he is saying even if he won’t come right out and say it.

I came right out and said it more than once. I suggest you re-read my posts on the matter. You are flailing wildly at this point.

What is the “ugly truth”? Spell it out. I have asked and no one will do it. Maybe you will be the first.

I have spelled it out in the simplest of terms possible.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I don’t control nor do I care what policies an extremist does or does not support. Why should I? I don’t give a shirt if they agree with me on policy or not.

You should give a shirt because your party is including those extremists in policy discussions. Your party keeps blocking any legislation that is designed to keep those extremist in check and keep them from doing us harm.

If you don't give a shirt about that, then you don't give a shirt about your fellow Americans.

If you want to ask me which policies I do support then you might want to ask that question directly.

You rarely give actual answers to specific questions about specific policies.

You obviously support the policy of unidentified, masked gunmen abducting, imprisoning and abusing people without giving them due process.

I know that you do, because you've never said you don't. If you didn't support it you would very clearly and straightforwardly say "I don't support/approve the policy of unidentified, masked gunmen abducting, imprisoning and abusing people without giving them due process." You'd said that, because it's really easy to say.

You know what's not real easy to say? "I do support/approve the policy of unidentified, masked gunmen abducting, imprisoning and abusing people without giving them due process."

You won’t say you don't support/approve it, because you do support/approve it, and you won't say you do support/approve it, because then the jig will be up. You're more transparent than the invisible man, my brother.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

No. I didn’t say that.

You didn't say you aren't fine with the policies either.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Nah. I don’t give a damn if you agree with me so why should I give a damn if they agree with me.

That's not what I said, Joe. There is a difference between a hate group agreeing with one of your positions and you agreeing with the positions of a hate group.

I would also add that Optimus explained quite well why there are times when "I don't give a damn" is woefully inadequate.

 

[TampaJoe]

So the only conclusion I can come to is that the human rights violations, the discrimination against groups of people, the illegal arrests, the violation of constitutional rights are not all that important to you. The petty canceling of important medical grants to study disease, the anti-vaccine lies being pushed, the deliberate decision made to destroy rations rather then give them to hungry children in Africa, the petty weaponization of the DOJ to go after law firms for who their clients were, the petty weaponization of the DOJ to go after news organizations in order to regulate their speech. The tariffs which punish US businesses and taxpayers, the weakening of all means of oversight that would help regulate abuses of power by the Executive.

Because every single moral principled conservative I know has decided they can no longer vote for the GOP as it currently stands. But you have made no such decision, in fact you actively reject that and will continue to vote for Trump’s party. You think because you wouldn’t vote for Trump, your hands are clean. That just couldn’t be further from the truth IMO. All of these things listed above are being supported by the GOP. They are active participants in them.

The above is the only conclusion I can reasonably come to. If any of the abuses and corruption listed above were important you couldn’t continue to vote for the GOP. I’m not saying you have to vote for the Democratic candidates, but you couldn’t vote for Trump’s party. Which is all that is left of the GOP.

So let’s say for the sake of argument I accept your points, who would I vote for as a conservative and why?

 

[TampaJoe]

You didn't say you aren't fine with the policies either.

I also didn’t say your were intelligent and well mannered. Does that mean Inthinknyou are or are not?

 

[TampaJoe]

That's not what I said, Joe. There is a difference between a hate group agreeing with one of your positions and you agreeing with the positions of a hate group.

I would also add that Optimus explained quite well why there are times when "I don't give a damn" is woefully inadequate.

So which do you think it is?

For the record, I thought it was perfectly adequate.

 

[brandon]

Conservatives, watch this and tell us which of these guys you identify with most so we know who we’re dealing with here.

 

[MT15]

So let’s say for the sake of argument I accept your points, who would I vote for as a conservative and why?

Tom Nichols is a principled conservative who answered your question far better than I ever could. He and many other principled conservatives have broken with the GOP years ago. You can easily find many essays from him and other conservatives on why the GOP is irretrievably broken.

You have to evaluate each candidate. Maybe some Democrats earn your vote, maybe some Libertarians, maybe an Independent candidate here and there.

Voting for the GOP is signaling approval for every law being broken, every Constitutional violation, every piece of corruption happening, every human rights violation being perpetrated. Free speech being targeted by the DOJ, medical research being scuttled due to petty pique, law firms being targeted. And now the GOP is complicit in hiding the Epstein files after promising to release them for years.

What they are doing in their prison camps to immigrants is arguably worse than the interment of Japanese Americans during WWII, which is a stain on our history.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

So which do you think it is?

I didn't present an either/or option. You are struggling to follow some pretty basic conversations here.

For the record, I thought it was perfectly adequate.

You have already demonstrated that your ability to think is flawed, so... yeah.