Republican Assault on Public Education (3 Viewers)

[MT15]

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for all these policies that will weaken public education, and there are several billionaires who also want to dismantle public education. Public education may have its faults, but it is responsible for an amazing amount of upward mobility. Kids from poor areas can still get a college prep education in a public school.

Vouchers (sometimes disguised as “school choice”) are a particular peeve of mine. Public money is diverted from poor schools to wealthy private schools, which aren’t required to offer accommodations for special needs or challenged students. Families with special needs kids are left out. Rural areas often suffer disproportionately because there are no private schools to attend, but their public schools still see the reduction in funding. Often the families who take advantage of the voucher money are upper class and the private schools simply raise tuition knowing the families are getting taxpayer money now.

Greg Abbot is being particularly vile in this area. No surprise. Voters will have to make a statement about public education. If we want to halt the growing divide in this country between the “haves” and “have-nots”, we need to pay attention to public education.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

My opinion of what exactly?

Of the evidence provided to support the assertion that neo-nazis and their ilk support the GOP. There is plenty to look at in this post:

Republican Assault on Public Education

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for...

madaboutpolitics.com

 

[TampaJoe]

Of the evidence provided to support the assertion that neo-nazis and their ilk support the GOP. There is plenty to look at in this post:

Republican Assault on Public Education

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for...

madaboutpolitics.com

I ask again. Why should I care?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I ask again. Why should I care?

Patches O'Houlihan would be proud.

 

[TampaJoe]

Patches O'Houlihan would be proud.

If you cannot explain why it is relevant to me, why do you care? Why should I care? I don’t care how you vote. Why should I care about how they vote?

You keep asking the same question and yet you cannot explain why I should care.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

If you cannot explain why it is relevant to me, why do you care? Why should I care? I don’t care how you vote. Why should I care about how they vote?

You keep asking the same question and yet you cannot explain why I should care.

Why are you so hesitant to answer now? You had no problem playing games and strawmanning. You had no problem engaging in your own evasive way. Now that there's no wiggle room left, though, you clam up. Why is that?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Of course if it was unintentional, you can always delete it or retract it.

I said I may have been mistaken. I just said it again for the second time.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Then he can easily spell it out so there is no confusion and no accusation of putting words in other peoples mouths.

It would be just as easy for you to just answer the simple question you keeping avoiding like the plague.

Why can't you just acknowledge what all of American has seen for themselves. Fascists groups like Neo Nazi's, KKK, and others:

• vote exclusively for Republicans and they rally their group members to go vote for Republicans
• there have been numerous confirmed meetings and communications between fascist groups and elected Republican officials
• Republicans always block any legislation or funding that is designed to combat domestic terrorism by these fascist groups

It's confirmed public knowledge. I posted credible and irrefutable evidence early today in direct response to you. You would have had to make an intentional effort not to see it. So, why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that Neo-Nazi's and other fascists groups are part of the rank and file of the Republican party? It's a known fact.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I asked you then and I will ask you again, why should I give two shirts in your hat who neo Nazis or Palestinian terrorists or communists or serial killers vote for? You have a point here. Grow a pair and say it. Spell it out.

Why are you so opposed/afraid to acknowledge the reality that Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups support Republicans and vote for Republicans? No one's asking you to give any shirts about it.

I bet you would give a whole bunch of shirts if it was confirmed that other groups of domestic terrorists vote exclusively for Democrats and have had contact with elected Democratic officials. You'd give so many shirts about that, that you're entire gastrointestinal tract would be clean as a whistle.

Before you come back with a both sides bullshirt response, you need to bring the receipts that prove it's a fact, otherwise you are just speculating and stating your opinion. Others and I have given you the receipts that prove the connection between fascist groups and the Republican party,

When I see someone work so hard to avoid answering a simple straightforward question, then I believe they are hiding something. I believe you are hiding something in regards to the proven fact that Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups support the Republican party and that elected Republican officials have met with and had communications with Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups.

 

[bird]

Why are so opposed/afraid to acknowledge the reality that Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups support Republicans and vote for Republicans? No one's asking you to give any shirts about it.

When I see someone work so hard to avoid answering a simple straightforward question, then I believe they are hiding something. I believe you are hiding something in regards to the proven fact that Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups support the Republican party and that elected Republican officials have met with and had communications with Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups.

He doesn’t respond because he doesn’t care about responding. Whether he actually cares about racists flocking to the Republican Party is not the point to him. The point is trolling, tap-dancing, whataboutism and bothsiderism. He has no other purpose.

It is an utter waste of time to respond to him. I have even fallen for his bullschlitz and responded a couple of times so I must remind myself not to do it. I don’t know if he gets a kick out of it or what.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

No. It’s your reality. Your world.

But here is the deal. Believe what you want. We simply don’t agree on what you claim are facts or evidence.

Funny little thing that gets overlooked about denial. In order to be in denial of reality, one has to first know that reality to be true. This deep seated level of denial actually proves that you know it's a fact that there is a connection between Neo Nazis, white supremacist groups and the Republican party. You're choosing to be in denial of what you know to be true.

That's how denial works and if anyone says, "I don’t accept your reality. I don’t accept that what you call facts are facts at all," without any attempt to offer any verifiable counter facts, then they are most definitely and very clearly in denial. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it could lead you to supporting people doing bad things. You wouldn't be conflicted if some part of you knows that it's bad and wrong for their to be connections between Neo Nazi's, white supremacists and the Republican party.

It's a shame that you think those of us who are in opposition to Trump and Republicans are all part of another "party" that is as vile and corrupt as Trump and Republicans are. If you didn't have that fear or contempt for us, we could probably work together to make things better for all of us, you included.

"Denial is a defense mechanism in which an individual refuses to recognize or acknowledge objective facts or experiences. It’s an unconscious process that serves to protect the person from discomfort or anxiety."​

​

Denial

Denial is a defense mechanism in which an individual refuses to recognize or acknowledge objective facts or experiences. It’s an unconscious process that serves to protect the person from discomfort or anxiety.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

He doesn’t respond because he doesn’t care about responding. Whether he actually cares about racists flocking to the Republican Party is not the point to him. The point is trolling, tap-dancing, whataboutism and bothsiderism. He has no other purpose.

It is an utter waste of time to respond to him. I have even fallen for his bullschlitz and responded a couple of times so I must remind myself not to do it. I don’t know if he gets a kick out of it or what.

I hear you. For me, it gives me a chance to share my thoughts with everyone else who reads them, so I don't see it as a waste of my time.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I ask again. Why should I care?

If you think Neo Nazi's are bad and dangerous, then everyone should care that they support the Republican party and the Republican leadership accepts them, meets with them and communicates with them.

The only way I could see someone not caring is if they don't think Neo Nazis are bad and dangerous.

If you showed me confirmed evidence that Hamas was voting for Democrats and Democratic leadership was accepting and communicating with them, I'd care a whole lot and I'd condemn them. I'm pretty sure you would care a lot and would condemn them too.

 

[TampaJoe]

Why are you so opposed/afraid to acknowledge the reality that Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups support Republicans and vote for Republicans? No one's asking you to give any shirts about it.

I bet you would give a whole bunch of shirts if it was confirmed that other groups of domestic terrorists vote exclusively for Democrats and have had contact with elected Democratic officials. You'd give so many shirts about that, that you're entire gastrointestinal tract would be clean as a whistle.

Before you come back with a both sides bullshirt response, you need to bring the receipts that prove it's a fact, otherwise you are just speculating and stating your opinion. Others and I have given you the receipts that prove the connection between fascist groups and the Republican party,

When I see someone work so hard to avoid answering a simple straightforward question, then I believe they are hiding something. I believe you are hiding something in regards to the proven fact that Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups support the Republican party and that elected Republican officials have met with and had communications with Neo Nazi's and other fascist groups.

If I do not believe that the GOP is a Neo Nazi or Facist party and if I do not believe that anyone I vote for is a Neo Nazi or a Facist, why should I care who an extremist dipshirt chooses to vote for. I would say the same thing about this if it were the Democratic Party.

Unless you want to disenfranchise those folks, then as citizens they do have a right to vote and neither you nor I can control who they vote for or why.

So I do acknowledge that I do not care about which party Neo Nazis or Hamas supporters vote for or support.

That should have been clear to you days ago. So you can spend another week if you like painting the GOP as facists or Nazis. That is your privilege. You are entitled to your opinion. But I don’t agree nor do I care.

Now if that isn’t plain enough for you, that is on you.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

...why should I care who an extremist dipshirt chooses to vote for.

If you care about your fellow Americans, This is why you should care.

We vote for who we think will do what we want.​

​

Neo Nazis vote the same way.​

​

Neo Nazi's are rabidly driven by the desire to strip rights away from anyone who is not a heterosexual, white skinned Christian, and to imprison them, at the very least.​

​

Neo Nazi's vote for Republicans, because they think Republicans will give them what they want. Re-read what Neo Nazi's above.​

​

Republicans have been meeting with and communicating with Neo Nazi's to win over their vote.​

​

You win a persons vote by convincing them you will give them what they want.​

​

 

[TampaJoe]

If you care about your fellow Americans, This is why you should care.

We vote for who we think will do what we want.​

​

Neo Nazis vote the same way.​

​

Neo Nazi's are rabidly driven by the desire to strip rights away from anyone who is not a heterosexual, white skinned Christian, and to imprison them, at the very least.​

​

Neo Nazi's vote for Republicans, because they think Republicans will give them what they want. Re-read what Neo Nazi's above.​

​

Republicans have been meeting with and communicating with Neo Nazi's to win over their vote.​

​

You win a persons vote by convincing them you will give them what they want.​

​

If that’s what you believe then vote accordingly. You guys have been spewing this same crap for decades. You view anyone who doesn’t see eye to eye with you as some sort of deplorable or part of some vast right wing conspiracy. You have used those lines so much they no longer mean anything.

It is just the politics of fear. The folks in the other side are evil. How could you vote for them? It isn’t about your superior policies and what you are going to do to address the needs of the nation. You spend all you time demonizing the other side. You give people nothing to vote for. Your whole focus is on demonizing the other party.

If that’s is all you have then it isn’t much. It has failed you twice with Trump. You were quite easily beaten by a man who promised to make America great again. All you had in response wasn’t better policy or better ideas or positivity. No. You spent all your efforts on Russian collusion and Neo Nazi bull shirt. You have nothing better to offer. If you do you spend damn little time talking about it or promoting it.

So yeah. Trumps divisive. Devisive as hell. But so is your party. You demonize anyone and everyone who disagrees with you and you question their patriotism and motivations.

So No LA. Your party is no better than the other. If it were you would have won in a landslide.

 

[Dragon]

If that’s what you believe then vote accordingly. You guys have been spewing this same crap for decades. You view anyone who doesn’t see eye to eye with you as some sort of deplorable or part of some vast right wing conspiracy. You have used those lines so much they no longer mean anything.

It is just the politics of fear. The folks in the other side are evil. How could you vote for them? It isn’t about your superior policies and what you are going to do to address the needs of the nation. You spend all you time demonizing the other side. You give people nothing to vote for. Your whole focus is on demonizing the other party.

If that’s is all you have then it isn’t much. It has failed you twice with Trump. You were quite easily beaten by a man who promised to make America great again. All you had in response wasn’t better policy or better ideas or positivity. No. You spent all your efforts on Russian collusion and Neo Nazi bull shirt. You have nothing better to offer. If you do you spend damn little time talking about it or promoting it.

So yeah. Trumps divisive. Devisive as hell. But so is your party. You demonize anyone and everyone who disagrees with you and you question their patriotism and motivations.

So No LA. Your party is no better than the other. If it were you would have won in a landslide.

So let me get this straight: you're okay with disappearing people without warrants, denying them legal representation, and deporting even U.S. citizens to foreign prisons known for torture — simply because of how they look or what language they speak? You're fine with people being shackled, thrown in cages, and forced to eat kneeling like dogs, as multiple independent reports have documented?

You're okay with all of that, and you dismiss any outrage as "politics of fear"? Then let's be clear: this isn’t about "disagreeing on policy." This is about basic human rights and the rule of law — values you'd think any American, regardless of party, would stand for.

And instead of addressing those facts, you go on a rant about how my side has "nothing to offer"? That’s not a response — it’s a deflection. No one called you deplorable. We asked you to take a position. But you haven’t. Not once. You've dodged every question about what’s actually happening — about policies that are hurting real people. That’s not a debate. That’s moral cowardice.

So no — this isn’t “just politics.” It’s not some worn-out narrative. It’s about whether you're okay with authoritarian abuse of power, as long as it targets people you think deserve it. And judging from your silence on that part, we both know the answer.

If you're going to defend this, own it. Say it plainly: “Yes, I’m okay with U.S. citizens being detained, deported, or abused without due process.” Stop hiding behind culture war slogans and start being honest.

 

[TampaJoe]

So let me get this straight: you're okay with disappearing people without warrants, denying them legal representation, and deporting even U.S. citizens to foreign prisons known for torture — simply because of how they look or what language they speak? You're fine with people being shackled, thrown in cages, and forced to eat kneeling like dogs, as multiple independent reports have documented?

You're okay with all of that, and you dismiss any outrage as "politics of fear"? Then let's be clear: this isn’t about "disagreeing on policy." This is about basic human rights and the rule of law — values you'd think any American, regardless of party, would stand for.

And instead of addressing those facts, you go on a rant about how my side has "nothing to offer"? That’s not a response — it’s a deflection. No one called you deplorable. We asked you to take a position. But you haven’t. Not once. You've dodged every question about what’s actually happening — about policies that are hurting real people. That’s not a debate. That’s moral cowardice.

So no — this isn’t “just politics.” It’s not some worn-out narrative. It’s about whether you're okay with authoritarian abuse of power, as long as it targets people you think deserve it. And judging from your silence on that part, we both know the answer.

If you're going to defend this, own it. Say it plainly: “Yes, I’m okay with U.S. citizens being detained, deported, or abused without due process.” Stop hiding behind culture war slogans and start being honest.

I was told that you aren’t a member of either party and have no “side”.

But to your point, I have said on numerous occasions that I expect this administration to faithfully execute our laws and protect and defend the Constitution. Same as I expected for the previous administration. If that’s not being done it should be addressed by our legal system and by Congress thru its oversight responsibilities.

I am not okay with anything that falls outside those parameters. Is that plain enough for you?

That does not mean I accept your version of events.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I was told that you aren’t a member of either party and have no “side”.

But to your point, I have said on numerous occasions that I expect this administration to faithfully execute our laws and protect and defend the Constitution. Same as I expected for the previous administration. If that’s not being done it should be addressed by our legal system and by Congress thru its oversight responsibilities.

I am not okay with anything that falls outside those parameters. Is that plain enough for you?

That does not mean I accept your version of events.

Still can't say the words

Can't even say "I'm not okay with how this administration is handling deportations"

It's always some mealy mouthed "I am not okay with anything that falls outside those parameters. Is that plain enough for you?"

To answer that question no, it isn't plain enough

It's never plain enough with you

You also have a tendency to misinterpret questions (I believe intentionally)

No one said every elected Republican official is a Neo Nazi

No one said every one who votes Republican is a Neo Nazi

The question was do you think Neo Nazis tend to align themselves with the GOP and why you think that might be?

I'd say the response is crickets but that isn't true you use words but those words don't add up to a definitive answer

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "Eating the cake would have been bad. I don't believe in doing bad things"

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "The rules about leftovers are clear. Everyone should follow the rules"

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "You've eaten others leftovers too. Both sides must do better"

@TampaJoe "I hope my answers have been plain enough for you"