Republican Assault on Public Education (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

This probably needs its own thread. It ties in with a lot of different R culture wars: Attacks on universities, attacks on CRT and “woke”. Classifying teachers and librarians as “groomers”. Pushing vouchers to send tax money to private, often religious, schools. Betsy DeVos was an advocate for all these policies that will weaken public education, and there are several billionaires who also want to dismantle public education. Public education may have its faults, but it is responsible for an amazing amount of upward mobility. Kids from poor areas can still get a college prep education in a public school.

Vouchers (sometimes disguised as “school choice”) are a particular peeve of mine. Public money is diverted from poor schools to wealthy private schools, which aren’t required to offer accommodations for special needs or challenged students. Families with special needs kids are left out. Rural areas often suffer disproportionately because there are no private schools to attend, but their public schools still see the reduction in funding. Often the families who take advantage of the voucher money are upper class and the private schools simply raise tuition knowing the families are getting taxpayer money now.

Greg Abbot is being particularly vile in this area. No surprise. Voters will have to make a statement about public education. If we want to halt the growing divide in this country between the “haves” and “have-nots”, we need to pay attention to public education.

 

[TampaJoe]

Still can't say the words

Can't even say "I'm not okay with how this administration is handling deportations"

It's always some mealy mouthed "I am not okay with anything that falls outside those parameters. Is that plain enough for you?"

To answer that question no, it isn't plain enough

It's never plain enough with you

You also have a tendency to misinterpret questions (I believe intentionally)

No one said every elected Republican official is a Neo Nazi

No one said every one who votes Republican is a Neo Nazi

The question was do you think Neo Nazis tend to align themselves with the GOP and why you think that might be?

I'd say the response is crickets but that isn't true you use words but those words don't add up to a definitive answer

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "Eating the cake would have been bad. I don't believe in doing bad things"

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "The rules about leftovers are clear. Everyone should follow the rules"

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "You've eaten others leftovers too. Both sides must do better"

@TampaJoe "I hope my answers have been plain enough for you"

I answered the whole Neo Nazi question several times. You either do not understand English or you just don’t like the answer.

I do not know whom Neo Nazis vote for nor do I care. If as you say, you are not asserting or implying that the GOP is a Neo Nazi party then I fail to see what relevance your question has to policy.

So if you believe that Neo Nazis support the GOP because the GOP favors Neo Nazi’s and Neo Nazi policy, say it. Loud and Proud. If that’s not what you believe then explain to me what relevance this whole Nei Nazi discussion has to me and why I should give a crap who a bunch of extremist chose to vote for.

Otherwise it is you who are being “mealy mouthed”.

 

[MT15]

Still can't say the words

Can't even say "I'm not okay with how this administration is handling deportations"

It's always some mealy mouthed "I am not okay with anything that falls outside those parameters. Is that plain enough for you?"

To answer that question no, it isn't plain enough

It's never plain enough with you

You also have a tendency to misinterpret questions (I believe intentionally)

No one said every elected Republican official is a Neo Nazi

No one said every one who votes Republican is a Neo Nazi

The question was do you think Neo Nazis tend to align themselves with the GOP and why you think that might be?

I'd say the response is crickets but that isn't true you use words but those words don't add up to a definitive answer

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "Eating the cake would have been bad. I don't believe in doing bad things"

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "The rules about leftovers are clear. Everyone should follow the rules"

"Did you eat the leftover cake?"

@TampaJoe - "You've eaten others leftovers too. Both sides must do better"

@TampaJoe "I hope my answers have been plain enough for you"

OP, you absolutely NAILED it. Bravo!

 

[MT15]

I answered the whole Neo Nazi question several times. You either do not understand English or you just don’t like the answer.

I do not know whom Neo Nazis vote for nor do I care. If as you say, you are not asserting or implying that the GOP is a Neo Nazi party then I fail to see what relevance your question has to policy.

So if you believe that Neo Nazis support the GOP because the GOP favors Neo Nazi’s and Neo Nazi policy, say it. Loud and Proud. If that’s not what you believe then explain to me what relevance this whole Nei Nazi discussion has to me and why I should give a crap who a bunch of extremist chose to vote for.

Otherwise it is you who are being “mealy mouthed”.

This is - or should be - embarrassing for a grown man. My goodness. Maybe you should take up tap-dancing?

 

[TampaJoe]

What is funny to me is that you guys are the ones doing all the “tap dancing”.

You are bending over backwards implying that the GOP is either Neo Nazi or heavily influenced by Neo Nazi. It is apparent that is what you are driving at but you can’t being yourself to say. You will bend over backwards claiming that is not what you are saying.

You are more obsessed with who the Neo Nazis are supporting and in the meantime you can’t figure out how you lost the last election. Go figure. I am not distracting you. You have been distracted for quite a while.

 

[Dragon]

I was told that you aren’t a member of either party and have no “side”.

But to your point, I have said on numerous occasions that I expect this administration to faithfully execute our laws and protect and defend the Constitution. Same as I expected for the previous administration. If that’s not being done it should be addressed by our legal system and by Congress thru its oversight responsibilities.

I am not okay with anything that falls outside those parameters. Is that plain enough for you?

That does not mean I accept your version of events.

Every single claim I made can be backed by credible sources — many with video, court records, or official documentation. It’s happening in plain sight, every day.

No, I don’t belong to a party. I’m a human being who believes in right and wrong — and what’s happening in the U.S. right now is a full-blown assault on basic human decency. These are the kinds of actions we usually associate with authoritarian regimes, not democracies.

Notice: I never used the word Nazi — because authoritarianism comes in many forms. But they all share one thing: a total disregard for human rights, for checks and balances, and for the rule of law.

You say Congress should hold the executive accountable for breaking the law? Then name one time this Congress has seriously checked this administration. Just one. You can’t — because the majority is complicit. And the administration has made it crystal clear that it doesn’t care about court rulings, constitutional limits, or democratic norms.

 

[TampaJoe]

Every single claim I made can be backed by credible sources — many with video, court records, or official documentation. It’s happening in plain sight, every day.

No, I don’t belong to a party. I’m a human being who believes in right and wrong — and what’s happening in the U.S. right now is a full-blown assault on basic human decency. These are the kinds of actions we usually associate with authoritarian regimes, not democracies.

Notice: I never used the word Nazi — because authoritarianism comes in many forms. But they all share one thing: a total disregard for human rights, for checks and balances, and for the rule of law.

You say Congress should hold the executive accountable for breaking the law? Then name one time this Congress has seriously checked this administration. Just one. You can’t — because the majority is complicit. And the administration has made it crystal clear that it doesn’t care about court rulings, constitutional limits, or democratic norms.

Whenever one or both of the houses of Congress are controlled by the same party as POTUS, it is always difficult to “check” POTUS. It’s frustrating. But that’s our process.

Of course, the courts are always an option as well to resolve legal disputes.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I answered the whole Neo Nazi question several times. You either do not understand English or you just don’t like the answer.

I do not know whom Neo Nazis vote for nor do I care. If as you say, you are not asserting or implying that the GOP is a Neo Nazi party then I fail to see what relevance your question has to policy.

So if you believe that Neo Nazis support the GOP because the GOP favors Neo Nazi’s and Neo Nazi policy, say it. Loud and Proud. If that’s not what you believe then explain to me what relevance this whole Nei Nazi discussion has to me and why I should give a crap who a bunch of extremist chose to vote for.

Otherwise it is you who are being “mealy mouthed”.

Your failure to understand the simple point being made- one that LA spelled out in plain language- is solely your fault. I don't know if it's because of a blind hyperpartisan mindset, cognitive dissonance fed by a deep-seated need to avoid an ugly truth, or just a simple inability to understand and follow a logical sequence of statements. At this point, the why doesn't matter. You have clearly demonstrated that your understanding of reality is deeply flawed, and I sincerely urge you to seek help from someone who can bring you back into the real world.

 

[TampaJoe]

Your failure to understand the simple point being made- one that LA spelled out in plain language- is solely your fault. I don't know if it's because of a blind hyperpartisan mindset, cognitive dissonance fed by a deep-seated need to avoid an ugly truth, or just a simple inability to understand and follow a logical sequence of statements. At this point, the why doesn't matter. You have clearly demonstrated that your understanding of reality is deeply flawed, and I sincerely urge you to seek help from someone who can bring you back into the real world.

I clearly understand what he is saying even if he won’t come right out and say it.

What is the “ugly truth”? Spell it out. I have asked and no one will do it. Maybe you will be the first.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I clearly understand what he is saying even if he won’t come right out and say it.

What is the “ugly truth”? Spell it out. I have asked and no one will do it. Maybe you will be the first.

It's been spelled out for you already, but sure. I am not saying I am 100% right (or right in any way), I am just offering an opinion based on our interactions.

I think there's a chance that you like certain policies, but don't want to be associated with the white supremacists and neo-nazis that also like those policies.

Now, go ahead and attack the messenger while ignoring a message you need to hear.

 

[MT15]

You are bending over backwards implying that the GOP is either Neo Nazi or heavily influenced by Neo Nazi.

Nobody has said that. You have a serious issue with reading comprehension or you just refuse to converse honestly.

What has been said, and you deny, is the reality that neo-Nazi groups have become comfortable with the GOP. They like their policies. And CPAC and other GOP-related events have followed Trump’s lead, and refused to repudiate them. Legislatures have refused to repudiate them. Trump refuses to repudiate them in any meaningful way.

Why do these groups feel comfortable with the GOP, more so than in the past? Well, all you have to do is look at the newer policies espoused by the GOP since Trump took it over. They are spending billions to cruelly imprison people without criminal backgrounds and maybe eventually deport them, all while violating human rights and their constitutional rights. The vast majority have brown skin and the Neo-Nazis want them gone also. The GOP under Trump has made diversity, equality and inclusion dirty words - that suits the Neo-Nazis just fine. They love it. They want a white ethno-state and they think Trump’s ideas mostly align with that. I don’t think they’re wrong. Most of the GOP today wants certain people either gone or actively discriminated against. That’s just observable.

So, when you prattle on about conservatives being for small government and for individual liberties, we have to just shake our heads and laugh. The CPAC has been taken over by MAGA, the GOP has been taken over by MAGA. The Neo-Nazis feel right at home with them, and the GOP and CPAC isn’t actively appalled by them. Neither is Trump.

Your sense of conservatism has no place in the modern GOP. You just don’t realize it yet, or the ideas I just outlined don’t really bother you all that much. I have no idea which is true. One of the above scenarios is much better for you than the others, though. We’re just trying to figure out which is true.

Edit: I’m more long-winded and Cuddles beat me to it. But we are both essentially saying the same thing.

 

[TampaJoe]

It's been spelled out for you already, but sure. I am not saying I am 100% right (or right in any way), I am just offering an opinion based on our interactions.

I think there's a chance that you like certain policies, but don't want to be associated with the white supremacists and neo-nazis that also like those policies.

Now, go ahead and attack the messenger while ignoring a message you need to hear.

I don’t control nor do I care what policies an extremist does or does not support. Why should I? I don’t give a shirt if they agree with me on policy or not.

If you want to ask me which policies I do support then you might want to ask that question directly.

Should government make policy based on the feelings or support, one way or the other, of a radical extremist group?

 

[MT15]

Years ago, during Trump’s first term, Tom Nichols wrote a piece about how conservatism has no place in the GOP any longer. It’s a good read, I may look for it and repost it.

 

[MT15]

I don’t control nor do I care what policies an extremist does or does not support. Why should I? I don’t give a shirt if they agree with me on policy or not.

If you want to ask me which policies I do support then you might want to ask that question directly.

Should government make policy based on the feelings or support, one way or the other, of a radical extremist group?

I truly don’t think it’s possible to miss the point either of us are making any more than you just did.

 

[TampaJoe]

Nobody has said that. You have a serious issue with reading comprehension or you just refuse to converse honestly.

What has been said, and you deny, is the reality that neo-Nazi groups have become comfortable with the GOP. They like their policies. And CPAC and other GOP-related events have followed Trump’s lead, and refused to repudiate them. Legislatures have refused to repudiate them. Trump refuses to repudiate them in any meaningful way.

Why do these groups feel comfortable with the GOP, more so than in the past? Well, all you have to do is look at the newer policies espoused by the GOP since Trump took it over. They are spending billions to cruelly imprison people without criminal backgrounds and maybe eventually deport them, all while violating human rights and their constitutional rights. The vast majority have brown skin and the Neo-Nazis want them gone also. The GOP under Trump has made diversity, equality and inclusion dirty words - that suits the Neo-Nazis just fine. They love it. They want a white ethno-state and they think Trump’s ideas mostly align with that. I don’t think they’re wrong. Most of the GOP today wants certain people either gone or actively discriminated against. That’s just observable.

So, when you prattle on about conservatives being for small government and for individual liberties, we have to just shake our heads and laugh. The CPAC has been taken over by MAGA, the GOP has been taken over by MAGA. The Neo-Nazis feel right at home with them, and the GOP and CPAC isn’t actively appalled by them. Neither is Trump.

Your sense of conservatism has no place in the modern GOP. You just don’t realize it yet, or the ideas I just outlined don’t really bother you all that much. I have no idea which is true. One of the above scenarios is much better for you than the others, though. We’re just trying to figure out which is true.

Edit: I’m more long-winded and Cuddles beat me to it. But we are both essentially saying the same thing.

Well it is indeed good to hear that you do not believe the GOP is an arm of the Neo Nazi movement. I am glad to hear it.

While I am not a member of the GOP, as a conservative I often find many of their policies preferable to Democrat policies. That said, I will promise that I will only consider voting for non Neo Nazi conservatives. I will go so far as to ask all the Neo Nazis to stay at home on Election Day.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

I don’t control nor do I care what policies an extremist does or does not support. Why should I? I don’t give a shirt if they agree with me on policy or not.

If you want to ask me which policies I do support then you might want to ask that question directly.

Should government make policy based on the feelings or support, one way or the other, of a radical extremist group?

You don't give a damn if they agree with you, but do you give a damn if you realize that you agree with them?

 

[MT15]

Well it is indeed good to hear that you do not believe the GOP is an arm of the Neo Nazi movement. I am glad to hear it.

While I am not a member of the GOP, as a conservative I often find many of their policies preferable to Democrat policies. That said, I will promise that I will only consider voting for non Neo Nazi conservatives. I will go so far as to ask all the Neo Nazis to stay at home on Election Day.

So the answer is that you are fine with the policies. That’s too bad. I can’t say I’m all that surprised though.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

You guys have been spewing this same crap for decades.

You're stereotyping again. You said stereotyping was bad, so why do you keep doing it?

You view anyone who doesn’t see eye to eye with you as some sort of deplorable or part of some vast right wing conspiracy.

That's simply not true. There are people I don't see eye to eye with, but am still friends. You're the only one who mentioned deplorable. Unlike you, I don't stereotype an entire group of people. My issues are specifically with the individuals doing bad things. Trump is doing very bad things and the vast majority of Republicans support, defend, and/or enable the bad things Trump is doing. The Republicans want hold him accountable, so they are complicit in his corruption.

You have used those lines so much they no longer mean anything.

They have meaning to almost everyone else and that's what's most important.

It is just the politics of fear.

If your house is on fire and someone yells fire, is that just spreading fear? No, it is not. It's a warning to not let your house burn down. If we reject the factual reality of what's happening, our house will burn down and we will burn right along with it.

The folks in the other side are evil.

You're projecting your world view onto me. I don't think in terms of "evil." Trump and Republicans are doing very vile things right now, but that doesn't make the evil to me. They need to be stopped and to be held accountable for the vile things they are doing, just like anyone else should be.

It isn’t about your superior policies and what you are going to do to address the needs of the nation. You spend all you time demonizing the other side. You give people nothing to vote for. Your whole focus is on demonizing the other party.

Who the fork are you talking? I've never run for office and I've never ran a campaign, so I haven't had done any of that stuff.

If that’s is all you have then it isn’t much. It has failed you twice with Trump.

I have never run against Trump, so I haven't failed twice against Trump. You're ranting at ghosts.

You were quite easily beaten by a man who promised to make America great again.

I never ran against Trump, so I have never been beaten by Trump. Are you having a complete break from reality? You're ranting at me like I personally ran a campaign against Trump. It's extremely bizarre.

All you had in response wasn’t better policy or better ideas or positivity. No. You spent all your efforts on Russian collusion and Neo Nazi bull shirt. You have nothing better to offer. If you do you spend damn little time talking about it or promoting it.

I had nothing to do with Hillary's or Harris's campaigns. You've lost touch with reality. By the way, Biden beat Trump running on those very same things you say doesn't win and he beat Trump worse than Trump beat Hiliary and Harris. So yeah, there's that.

So yeah. Trumps divisive. Devisive as hell. But so is your party.

How many times to I have to tell you I don't have a party? You're stereotyping again, something you have whine at others for doing.

You demonize anyone and everyone who disagrees with you and you question their patriotism and motivations.

I do not. You are projecting what you do on to me. I've never question anyone's patriotism, because patriotism is just a form of tribalism and I don't buy into tribalism.

So No LA. Your party...

I don't have a party. You are projecting again. You've really gone off the deep end.

 

[TampaJoe]

You don't give a damn if they agree with you, but do you give a damn if you realize that you agree with them?

Nah. I don’t give a damn if you agree with me so why should I give a damn if they agree with me.