Political/Social movements and groups (1 Viewer)

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DaveXA

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I'm debating how to do this, but as discussed in the QAnon thread, I'd like to discuss the various groups and movements and the role they're playing in the political and social arenas. They're apparently driving (or so it seems) the trajectory of politics today. I'm not sure if we should do a repository of all groups here or a separate thread for each group.

Certainly some groups will warrant a lot of discussion while other maybe a cursory amount. I think there are a few things I'd like to cover. And listed below, feel free to suggest; add, combine or delete from this list:

- How/why group started
- Early mission
- Current mission
- Relevance today
- Where is it heading?
- Did it fail or achieve its goals?

I'm also listing the groups in no particular order:

- BLM
- Antifa
- Proud Boys
- KkK
- Boogaloo (sp?)
- QAnon
- Nation of Islam
- Black Panthers
- Zionists
- Not sure what would be a group worth discussing for Arab/Islam perspective, Hezbollah, ISIS or something else?

This isn't a thread to attack these groups. This is a thread to discuss what they are, why they came into existence and where they seem to be headed going forward. It might be too broad for a single thread though. I don't know, just wanting to kickstart a discussion that I think can be productive.
 

Saint by the Bay

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Are we talking just groups that have an impact in the US? That would eliminate Hezbollah, ISIS, etc. as they have no political influence in the US. I would also remove Zionists. I get why they are there, but they really aren't a political movement with serious impact in the US. Our Isreali policies are purely strategic.

Some of the older organizations like the KKK and Nation of Islam have little impact any more. The new Black Panther Party has like 100 members, which makes it almost a punchline. QAnon isn't really an organization, it's the title of a conspiracy cult. So that leaves us with:

- BLM
- Antifa
- Proud Boys
- Boogaloo (sp?)

With the latest news, I would add Proud Goys, the recent offshoot of the white nationalist portion of the Proud Boys. I'd also add Richard Spencer as an individual who has a pretty big following of American Nazi's.
 

Saint by the Bay

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Also, do we want to add the One Million Moms? They actually have a decent cultural impact, which becomes political.

Mijente is basically the Latino BLM, and their influence is growing.
 
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DaveXA

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Good suggestions. I like the narrowing down to currently relevant socio-political groups in the US.
 

SystemShock

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I would also remove Zionists. I get why they are there, but they really aren't a political movement with serious impact in the US. Our Isreali policies are purely strategic.
I disagree 100%. Zionists definitely belong on the list.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I'm going to start with BLM, because I think they may be the most misunderstood out of all of these.

- How/why the group started: Contrary to popular belief, BLM wasn't originally about police violence. It started in 2013 in response to the Trayvon Martin murder (in 2012). It really was primarily a hashtag until the Michael Brown protests in St. Louis. It wasn't until after Eric Garner that it became focused on policing issues.

- Early mission: The early mission of BLM was to bring awareness to the lack of value placed on the lives of young black men by society and the danger that many innocent black youths found themselves in because of inherent suspicion of them. The goal was originally just awareness, and even now there isn't a good focus on exactly what BLM wants to happen (I think this is the result of being a loose decentralized movement).

- Current mission: Protest. BLM is all over the place on what they want, because they don't have a charter. It's young, and still a lot of people screaming without much direction on what happens after the screaming.

- Relevance today: They are very relevant, and a political football. Their relevance tends to be more cultural than political. They are a hearts and minds movement. Lots of people use the phrase, and I think they have been successful at driving visibility as in the case of George Floyd. However, I can't name a single policy that has been enacted because of them. Maybe Austin's pseudo-defund movement?

- Where is it heading? : At some point, I think someone will emerge as a real leader of the BLM movement and centralize the organization. It's going to take someone young and charismatic, maybe a celebrity, and someone who knows how to really supercharge social media. If they don't get organized they will just continue to be a conservative foil and with groups like Antifa taking advantage of BLM protests, they will get marginalized. Just look at this year how their popularity peaked then dropped from Antifa turning their peaceful demonstrations into riots. They need congruent messaging and an actual defined list of objectives.

- Did it fail or achieve its goals? : Their goal is visibility, so they have absolutely succeeded. Would the officers involved in George Floyd's death be indicted without them? Would we have even had a Breana Taylor grand jury, even though it was a farce? They shine a light in the darkness and force action, which is really their only current goal. They have also become a cultural phenomenon and the tip of the spear in the fight for racial justice. So far, they have probably exceeded their goals, especially considering the lack of organization.
 

Saint by the Bay

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I disagree 100%. Zionists definitely belong on the list.
I don't remember ever seeing or hearing of a Zionist protest in the US. I'll be interested in reading the discussion about them in this thread because there's probably something I just don't know.
 

SystemShock

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I don't remember ever seeing or hearing of a Zionist protest in the US. I'll be interested in reading the discussion about them in this thread because there's probably something I just don't know.
And you'll never see or hear about a Zionist protest in the U.S. That's not how they work. If this discussion is exclusively regarding groups that carry out public protests under a particular banner, then I guess the Zionists can be skipped. But they are definitely a political group with great influence and U.S. policy towards Israel is definitely not purely strategic.
 
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DaveXA

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And you'll never see or hear about a Zionist protest in the U.S. That's not how they work. If this discussion is exclusively regarding groups that carry out public protests under a particular banner, then I guess the Zionists can be skipped. But they are definitely a political group with great influence and U.S. policy towards Israel is definitely not purely strategic.
Do they have an organized group? Is there a name for them? Or are they just Zionists in general. I'm just trying to get a handle on how they started here, what the mission is, etc.
 

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Antifa isn’t an organization. They have no leadership, no financial backing, no political power. They are a loose group of different factions that fight against racists and dumbasses like the Proud Boys. Well same thing I guess.

All of their actions are counter protests and are local to the area where they are.

That is why they are so easy to vilify. Anyone can do anything in the name of Antifa - even their adversaries- and there isn’t an organization to denounce it.

There are TONS of white nationalist groups with actual political influence that need to be on this list. American Front, the 3%ers, Patriot Prayer, Oath Keepers off the top of my head.

This doesn’t include the massive amounts that don’t have political influence directly, but are infiltrating law enforcement and the military.
 

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Do they have an organized group? Is there a name for them? Or are they just Zionists in general. I'm just trying to get a handle on how they started here, what the mission is, etc.
Zionist are not one uniform group but many and spans everything from liberal to ultra conservative. This one is one of the more conservative and big supporters of Trump

https://zoa.org/
 
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DaveXA

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Antifa isn’t an organization. They have no leadership, no financial backing, no political power. They are a loose group of different factions that fight against racists and dumbasses like the Proud Boys. Well same thing I guess.

All of their actions are counter protests and are local to the area where they are.

That is why they are so easy to vilify. Anyone can do anything in the name of Antifa - even their adversaries- and there isn’t an organization to denounce it.

There are TONS of white nationalist groups with actual political influence that need to be on this list. American Front, the 3%ers, Patriot Prayer, Oath Keepers off the top of my head.

This doesn’t include the massive amounts that don’t have political influence directly, but are infiltrating law enforcement and the military.
So where or what groups are on the opposite end of the spectrum. You stated there are a loose group of factions supporting the Antifa movement. What would you say those groups are?

Is Antifa a relevant and effective movement? If so, how can that be sustained. If not, who is the most relevant and organized group on that side of the spectrum?
 

CoolBrees

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@DaveXA -

What I meant was is there are factions like Antifa PDX here in Portland. They have no real leadership just social media where they ask people to show up when there is a anti-protest. There is no one in charge per se. No funding being raised. No membership. This is basically how all of their factions operate. City by city. State by state. Again there is no coordination across the groups.

They are not a relevant group or movement because they aren’t one. They are as organized as the crowd at football game. Just a bunch of people that have similar interest that show up at a predetermined time but have no relationship after the event is over.

As far as leftist groups that are the opposite of white nationalists, I think the only groups I can think of are the environmental groups. But even they aren’t really a good example.

Leftists tend to organize around a singular issue. BLM, Code Pink, NARAL, ALF etc. Which is why the left is so fractured imo.

Right wingers tend to be easier to persuade with emotional beliefs in nebulous enemies like socialism which few could actually describe what that is, or the even more ambiguous “the left”
 

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My experience is that very few people in the US understand what the different fractions on the left stand for.

They are using terms like communist, maxist, socialist as a boogey men without realising that the difference between the social democrat and a stalinist is as big as between a neo-nazi and a conservative democrat.
 
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DaveXA

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@DaveXA -

What I meant was is there are factions like Antifa PDX here in Portland. They have no real leadership just social media where they ask people to show up when there is a anti-protest. There is no one in charge per se. No funding being raised. No membership. This is basically how all of their factions operate. City by city. State by state. Again there is no coordination across the groups.

They are not a relevant group or movement because they aren’t one. They are as organized as the crowd at football game. Just a bunch of people that have similar interest that show up at a predetermined time but have no relationship after the event is over.

As far as leftist groups that are the opposite of white nationalists, I think the only groups I can think of are the environmental groups. But even they aren’t really a good example.

Leftists tend to organize around a singular issue. BLM, Code Pink, NARAL, ALF etc. Which is why the left is so fractured imo.

Right wingers tend to be easier to persuade with emotional beliefs in nebulous enemies like socialism which few could actually describe what that is, or the even more ambiguous “the left”
That makes sense. I guess that's why the antifa name stuck. The right needed a boogeyman and I guess that's the one that sort of captured a lot of those fractured groups as you described it.

If there was one thing the right has often been good at, it's messaging. They pick a theme and hammer away at it until perception becomes reality. It's why their fake news mantra and "fair and balanced" works. They don't care about nuance and understanding. But rather make it simple and easy to understand because much of their audience is simple minded. It's partially why I think they do so well in rural areas.

Anyway, maybe we need to talk more about the Code Pinks, ALF and NOW groups. They have their relevant causes and we can talk specifically about what they are and where things stand with them.
 

brandon

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And you'll never see or hear about a Zionist protest in the U.S. That's not how they work. If this discussion is exclusively regarding groups that carry out public protests under a particular banner, then I guess the Zionists can be skipped. But they are definitely a political group with great influence and U.S. policy towards Israel is definitely not purely strategic.
This sounds pretty close to typical anti-semitic conspiracy.
 

SystemShock

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This sounds pretty close to typical anti-semitic conspiracy.

Really? " [Zionists] are definitely a political group with great influence and U.S. policy towards Israel is definitely not purely strategic" sounds to you "pretty close to typical anti-semitic conspiracy"?
I guess I forgot that Israel is holy. But not sorry.

@Dragon posted a link to ZOA. And they are not the only ones. Go do some reading.
 

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