Political Lies (1 Viewer)

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MT15

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Maybe we should keep track of particularly egregious lies about policy and government. I know I see Daniel Dale still doing good work fact checking what politicians say.

Note: I don’t see this as a thread for nit-picking. So and so said there were 13 violations and there were only 11, for example. Rather the lies that completely misrepresent some policy, or law.

I‘ll start with this one I just saw:

 
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MT15

MT15

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You don’t know that about Lieu at all. You’re just assigning malice when a misunderstanding will certainly explain it. Now if Lieu continues to make the claim once the mistake is pointed out we will have something closer to proof of malice. You know, the way Hannity doubled down on Seth Rich and Pizza Gate and birtherism and on and on, until he was absolutely forced to recant.

You are mischaracterizing what Hannity did. He didn’t just question, and clearly state it was speculation. It was a calculated lie, done to inflict political damage, with no basis in fact. Why you feel compelled to defend that is just baffling.
 

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All politicians, especially nationally elected ones, are going to have said something regrettable and that turns out not to be true.

“Read my Lips: no new taxes.” -HW Bush
“I did not have sexual relations with that women” -Clinton
“Sadam has WMDs & Mission Accomplished -W
“If you like your Doctor you can keep them” - Obama
[every word that ever came out of his orange piehole] - Trump

I think the difference lies in when they knew what they were saying isn’t true. Clinton knew he was lying, so did W.

But I think Obama and HW were trying to tell the truth at the time. ACA does allow you to keep you doctor.....Unless they drop your insurer or vice versa. which happened a lot. HW didn’t propose the tax increases, Congress did. He was basically powerless to stop them and forced him into signing the increase during the recession..... And then hung him with it.
 

SaintForLife

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You don’t know that about Lieu at all. You’re just assigning malice when a misunderstanding will certainly explain it. Now if Lieu continues to make the claim once the mistake is pointed out we will have something closer to proof of malice. You know, the way Hannity doubled down on Seth Rich and Pizza Gate and birtherism and on and on, until he was absolutely forced to recant.

You are mischaracterizing what Hannity did. He didn’t just question, and clearly state it was speculation. It was a calculated lie, done to inflict political damage, with no basis in fact. Why you feel compelled to defend that is just baffling.
The lie was pointed out by the ABC reporter. Why hasn't he deleted the tweet?

I said nothing about Hannity and I would never defend that partisan idiot. I do remember the media, Democrats, and many here constantly questioning Trump's health and mental acuity for political damage. Did you expect Republicans not to do the same with Biden?
 

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The lie was pointed out by the ABC reporter. Why hasn't he deleted the tweet?

I said nothing about Hannity and I would never defend that partisan idiot. I do remember the media, Democrats, and many here constantly questioning Trump's health and mental acuity for political damage. Did you expect Republicans not to do the same with Biden?
Any news on Hillary's brain tumor?
 
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MT15

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The lie was pointed out by the ABC reporter. Why hasn't he deleted the tweet?

I said nothing about Hannity and I would never defend that partisan idiot. I do remember the media, Democrats, and many here constantly questioning Trump's health and mental acuity for political damage. Did you expect Republicans not to do the same with Biden?
Maybe because he hasn’t seen the correction? Maybe he spoke to the Representative personally? It’s really small potatoes, IMO.

Once again, I see a difference between “questioning” and making up shirt. And while you are right that there was some speculation about Trump, Trump himself put his health and mental acuity on the line with his ridiculous claims from his “doctors” and lying about his height and weight from the very beginning.

You’ve just been defending Hannity by equating what he did with what Lieu did. 🤷‍♀️ You implied that “whatever Hannity said” wasn’t as bad as Lieu’s tweet. What Hannity did was say Biden made up a story that he was a stutterer, and is using that to cover up a serious health issue. A bit more serious, IMO.
 

SaintForLife

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Maybe because he hasn’t seen the correction? Maybe he spoke to the Representative personally? It’s really small potatoes, IMO.

Once again, I see a difference between “questioning” and making up shirt. And while you are right that there was some speculation about Trump, Trump himself put his health and mental acuity on the line with his ridiculous claims from his “doctors” and lying about his height and weight from the very beginning.

You’ve just been defending Hannity by equating what he did with what Lieu did. 🤷‍♀️ You implied that “whatever Hannity said” wasn’t as bad as Lieu’s tweet. What Hannity did was say Biden made up a story that he was a stutterer, and is using that to cover up a serious health issue. A bit more serious, IMO.
You are really reaching by saying I was defending Hannity. Here's what I said:

Even that example doesn't qualify as a significant one, but whatever Hannity said does?

I don't believe for a second, especially because his tweet still remains up, that a Congressman doesn't know the bill she was talking about her proposed bill that was voted down.

Once again you should have named the thread conservative political lies.
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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So for the Lieu thing - is the issue that Salazar's proposal was never voted on but instead implemented as a policy by Biden's SBA (instead of by an act of Congress), and Lieu conflated that with her voting against the COVID relief bill?

If that is in fact what happened, then Lieu's tweet is wrong, and if does leave it up without a correction it then becomes a lie. I will say it is significant, because this is an opportunity to build some bipartisan agreement, which is what I took Salazar's tweet as attempting (maybe), and instead Lieu ratcheted up the ill will.
 

DaveXA

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So for the Lieu thing - is the issue that Salazar's proposal was never voted on but instead implemented as a policy by Biden's SBA (instead of by an act of Congress), and Lieu conflated that with her voting against the COVID relief bill?

If that is in fact what happened, then Lieu's tweet is wrong, and if does leave it up without a correction it then becomes a lie. I will say it is significant, because this is an opportunity to build some bipartisan agreement, which is what I took Salazar's tweet as attempting (maybe), and instead Lieu ratcheted up the ill will.
Yeah, of course I'm not expecting either side to give the other much wiggle room. If they see an angle, they'll take it.
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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Just read on CNN's fact check site that Lieu more or less stood by his tweet saying that without the COVID relief bill the SBA would not have enacted that policy. That may or may not be true, but his tweet is inaccurate and when corrected he did not retract. That qualifies as a political lie.
 

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The lie was pointed out by the ABC reporter. Why hasn't he deleted the tweet?

I said nothing about Hannity and I would never defend that partisan idiot. I do remember the media, Democrats, and many here constantly questioning Trump's health and mental acuity for political damage. Did you expect Republicans not to do the same with Biden?
It's fair game. It's one of those things if the founding fathers could have seen the future they would have put in a maximum age limit. Joe Biden is going to be our first 80 year old president. It's completely normal to question his mental acuity. Democrats also have a bad track record on this with Feinstein.
 
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MT15

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Senility in Congress is a bipartisan problem. It’s definitely not just one party.

We don’t see any evidence of senility in Biden, though. It’s irresponsible to make up stuff about him.
 

DaveXA

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Senility in Congress is a bipartisan problem. It’s definitely not just one party.

We don’t see any evidence of senility in Biden, though. It’s irresponsible to make up stuff about him.
Well, I get why people have the perception though. He's had a long track record of saying stuff that are either inaccurate or just plain goofy. He's put his foot in his mouth a lot over the years. But I attribute that more to being careless than dim witted.

I do agree agree the age thing is a bipartisan problem, but clearly, Feinstein needs to retire. I'm not expecting Biden to serve 2 terms. But I do expect Trump will run again. He'll be older than Biden is now. A lot can happen in 3 years, so we'll see.
 

J-DONK

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Well, I get why people have the perception though. He's had a long track record of saying stuff that are either inaccurate or just plain goofy. He's put his foot in his mouth a lot over the years. But I attribute that more to being careless than dim witted.

I do agree agree the age thing is a bipartisan problem, but clearly, Feinstein needs to retire. I'm not expecting Biden to serve 2 terms. But I do expect Trump will run again. He'll be older than Biden is now. A lot can happen in 3 years, so we'll see.
I think part of Biden's issue is the stuttering. He has always had major gaffs as well. It's hard to tell what is age related, or just him.

As far as Republicans, McConnell is maybe going to retire before the end of his term as well. He appears to be trying to line up a handpicked replacement.

I brought up Feinstein again because it's in the news with the comments from the governor about a replacement. Also, even though she says she has no plans to retire, her husband is trying to land a position overseas.

My personal opinion is if you can openly take shots about lack of experience in a much younger representative. You can also take shots about age related diseases in older representatives.
 

DaveXA

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I think part of Biden's issue is the stuttering. He has always had major gaffs as well. It's hard to tell what is age related, or just him.

As far as Republicans, McConnell is maybe going to retire before the end of his term as well. He appears to be trying to line up a handpicked replacement.

I brought up Feinstein again because it's in the news with the comments from the governor about a replacement. Also, even though she says she has no plans to retire, her husband is trying to land a position overseas.

My personal opinion is if you can openly take shots about lack of experience in a much younger representative. You can also take shots about age related diseases in older representatives.
Yeah, McConnell would do well to retire also. He just doesn't look healthy these days.
 
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MT15

MT15

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You are really reaching by saying I was defending Hannity. Here's what I said:

Even that example doesn't qualify as a significant one, but whatever Hannity said does?

I don't believe for a second, especially because his tweet still remains up, that a Congressman doesn't know the bill she was talking about her proposed bill that was voted down.

Once again you should have named the thread conservative political lies.
So, I’ve been thinking, and in light of what Jim dug up on Lieu‘s statement it does qualify as a political lie. I don’t think it’s a particularly significant one, though, but that’s just my own judgement. It does appear at first look that he was conflating two different bills, but he should have corrected it.

I am going to bring up what I judge to be significant lies, and in my opinion the lies we are consistently seeing from Republicans at this point in time are very serious lies. Anyone is free to bring up political lies that matter to them.

I saw a fact check this morning on Biden because he said he would be in favor of changing the filibuster to a “talking” filibuster like it was when he started in the Senate. Someone pointed out that the filibuster was changed before he started. I don’t know which is correct, because it seems to me that I recall some filibusters that were “talking” not all that long ago. Either way, I don’t consider that a significant lie.
 

Saintamaniac

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It's interesting to see the right jump on and cling to a lie told by Lieu. Question is, what is the overall impact of the lie that Lieu told? Not quite as significant as the lies told over and over again by trump and many, many other republicans that actually cost people their lives. Not only that, trump and the republican lies cost capitol police their lives and almost cost us our democracy. But yes, Lieu lied. Only 30,532 more lies and 550K and counting more deaths to go until Lieu's lie has the same impact that the lies told by trump and republicans had on this country.
 

Saintman2884

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It's fair game. It's one of those things if the founding fathers could have seen the future they would have put in a maximum age limit. Joe Biden is going to be our first 80 year old president. It's completely normal to question his mental acuity. Democrats also have a bad track record on this with Feinstein.
Benjamin Franklin was pretty old, frail, and not exactly in great physical condition by the time of Constitutional Convention in 1787 rolled around in Freedom Hall in Philadelphia when just enough state delegates convened to discuss revoking the Articles of Confederation to a newer, more centralized, federal Republic type government. While he did play some critical roles, mostly behind the scenes, discussing and proposing compromise plans to influential delegates, he didnt attend nor have much involvement in the overall complex detailed semantics laid out in the meetings.

The Convention's president, George Washington, openly told delegates he made a huge mistake even coming. Both Franklin and Washington were old,senior citizens by this point, particularly Franklin so considering the dire, important stakes and the significant necessity of enacting a more effective Constitution prevalent, I don't think the Founding Fathers wouldve seriously believed enacting an age limit was a good, practical idea. Some influential ones, like Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton might've been in favor of it, but from a whole collective decision-making body, any such proposals wouldn't have succeeded.

I think even if enough of Founding Fathers had some inkling of maybe the potential problems older aged politicians at risk of senility issues related posed to their effectiveness, if many of these same politicians had a relatively successful, decisive resumes as Senators or Reps, who cares if their 75 or even 80, perhaps they deserve the benefit of the doubt until it becomes too glaringly obvious the physical, mental and emotional strains of their jobs become too much. Early-mid 19th century American politicians like Henry Clay, John Calhoun, and even Daniel Webster served as respective senators of their states well until their late 60's and early 70's. John Calhoun died in office in 1850 during the middle of one of what was the most intense, divisive pre-Civil War slavery-related issues that the nation had faced up to that point in our history, the Compromise of 1850.

As a personal aside, Henry Clay remains one of this nation's most historically underrated politicians, and intelligent, most effective legislators particularly when it came to devising and saving important legislation as a compromiser. His "American System" more federal, centralized form of government was essentially the blueprint, albeit retooled somewhat, for Lincoln's wide-ranging domestic policy decisions later on. Honestly, that man and a few other influential Congressional leaders, probably staved off the Civil War from occurring a full decade before it exploded.
 
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Saintman2884

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It's interesting to see the right jump on and cling to a lie told by Lieu. Question is, what is the overall impact of the lie that Lieu told? Not quite as significant as the lies told over and over again by trump and many, many other republicans that actually cost people their lives. Not only that, trump and the republican lies cost capitol police their lives and almost cost us our democracy. But yes, Lieu lied. Only 30,532 more lies and 550K and counting more deaths to go until Lieu's lie has the same impact that the lies told by trump and republicans had on this country.
I think one reason why maybe some on the right are so sensitive about Lieu's tweet stating a political lie is that his tone, manner came across as a belligerent butt crevasse who later on when confronted with the inaccuracies by CNN, doubled down on it and refused to issue a retraction. Even if a certain politician's lies aren't significant or.the impact from those repeated lies isn't that large or significant, if you come across as a partisan, obnoxious bully the relatively insignificance of the political lie itself gets overshadowed by politician's histrionics.

Marjorie Taylor Greene is another well-documented, far more extreme (and dangerous) example even though her lies, self-centered far-right political stunts and QA'non-inspired rhetoric are far more numerous and extreme then Lieu's obnoxious tweet here is.
 

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