Now is not the time to talk about gun control (1 Viewer)

[brandon]

T&P

Redirect Notice

 

[MT15]

Putting this here because it means we might be one step closer to the demise of the NRA. America will be better once it’s gone.

 

[Denzien]

Putting this here because it means we might be one step closer to the demise of the NRA. America will be better once it’s gone.

Far better off - they've been undermining gun rights for decades

 

[Optimus Prime]

Well, this seems like a great idea
========================
Texas is a step closer to allowing residents to carry handguns openly in public without a permit or training, becoming the most populous state in the United States to do so.


Despite criticism from gun-control groups and law enforcement leaders, the state’s Republican-led legislature approved a bill late Monday night that drops one of the state’s last major gun restrictions, sending the measure to Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who has said he intends to sign it.


“The strongest Second Amendment legislation in Texas history,” Abbott tweeted days before the bill was passed. “Let’s get it to my desk for signing.”


Abbott’s office did not respond to a question about when he intends to sign it into law or queries regarding the concerns raised by critics, who fear the measure could lead to an increase in gun violence.

Gun-control groups have pointed to the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a Houston-area high school and a movie theater in Odessa.


A majority of Texas voters, 59 percent, oppose permitless carry, according to a University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll conducted last month.

But supporters of the “constitutional carry” bill, including the National Rifle Association, hailed it as the greatest Texas “gun rights victory since the Alamo” and said it repeals restrictions that infringe on a constitutional right to bear arms...........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/25/texas-open-carry-gun-bill/

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Well, this seems like a great idea
========================
Texas is a step closer to allowing residents to carry handguns openly in public without a permit or training, becoming the most populous state in the United States to do so.


Despite criticism from gun-control groups and law enforcement leaders, the state’s Republican-led legislature approved a bill late Monday night that drops one of the state’s last major gun restrictions, sending the measure to Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who has said he intends to sign it.


“The strongest Second Amendment legislation in Texas history,” Abbott tweeted days before the bill was passed. “Let’s get it to my desk for signing.”


Abbott’s office did not respond to a question about when he intends to sign it into law or queries regarding the concerns raised by critics, who fear the measure could lead to an increase in gun violence.

Gun-control groups have pointed to the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a Houston-area high school and a movie theater in Odessa.


A majority of Texas voters, 59 percent, oppose permitless carry, according to a University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll conducted last month.

But supporters of the “constitutional carry” bill, including the National Rifle Association, hailed it as the greatest Texas “gun rights victory since the Alamo” and said it repeals restrictions that infringe on a constitutional right to bear arms...........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/25/texas-open-carry-gun-bill/

Absolutely nothing could go wrong with this plan

 

[JRad]

I say this as someone who owns two - you should have to have a permit to even own a gun, much less concealed carry.

I don’t have the permit, but I did sit through a concealed carry class. They do teach some safety that’s important to know when you’re carrying in public like that. But I guess that’s not as important as being able to openly flash what you have on you.

 

[DaveXA]

Well, this seems like a great idea
========================
Texas is a step closer to allowing residents to carry handguns openly in public without a permit or training, becoming the most populous state in the United States to do so.


Despite criticism from gun-control groups and law enforcement leaders, the state’s Republican-led legislature approved a bill late Monday night that drops one of the state’s last major gun restrictions, sending the measure to Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who has said he intends to sign it.


“The strongest Second Amendment legislation in Texas history,” Abbott tweeted days before the bill was passed. “Let’s get it to my desk for signing.”


Abbott’s office did not respond to a question about when he intends to sign it into law or queries regarding the concerns raised by critics, who fear the measure could lead to an increase in gun violence.

Gun-control groups have pointed to the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a Houston-area high school and a movie theater in Odessa.


A majority of Texas voters, 59 percent, oppose permitless carry, according to a University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll conducted last month.

But supporters of the “constitutional carry” bill, including the National Rifle Association, hailed it as the greatest Texas “gun rights victory since the Alamo” and said it repeals restrictions that infringe on a constitutional right to bear arms...........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/25/texas-open-carry-gun-bill/

Yikes, that's just nuts. No permit and no training needed to open carry? Oh sure, brilliant!

 

[V Chip]

They’ll change their opinions once there is a BLM protest full of people open carrying, watch.

 

[DaveXA]

They’ll change their opinions once there is a BLM protest full of people open carrying, watch.

Please, please make this happen!

 

[Optimus Prime]

They’ll change their opinions once there is a BLM protest full of people open carrying, watch.

I think that's exactly what happened in the 70s with the Black Panthers

California maybe?

 

[superchuck500]

They’ll change their opinions once there is a BLM protest full of people open carrying, watch.

Until the cops just shoot because a Black man openly carrying a gun is enough to justify use of deadly force in the minds of many cops in places like Texas, no matter the context.

That’s another element of these kinds of laws that the lawmakers don’t appreciate or don’t care about.

Open Carry Laws Pose Unmitigated Dangers for Black Men - VOICE

S. E. Williams There are many in America who believe if the nation truly wants gun control, all it has to do is encourage Black men to begin openly carrying weapons. There is certainly a lot of evidence to support this hypothesis—just look at California history and ask members of the original...

theievoice.com

Is it safe for a black man to be the ‘good guy with a gun’?

Whom do Americans think of when they think of heroes? That’s one of the questions raised by recent tragedies in which black men tried to stop active shooters and police killed the good Samaritan rather than the criminal.

www.csmonitor.com

I'm a licensed gun owner but I haven't carried in years. Why? I'm Black and I'm scared.

Open carry and concealed carry are white privilege at protests and everywhere. I'm a Black, trained, licensed veteran afraid authorities will kill me.

www.usatoday.com

 

[MT15]

The man in Michigan who was killed in front of his girlfriend and her daughter had a permit and informed the officer about the presence of the gun. He still got shot and killed.

 

[brandon]

Dang. I saw that this thread had some replies today and thought someone had already covered the mass shooting du jour. Guess not.

At least 8 dead after shooting at public transit rail yard in San Jose, California

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/26/us/san-jose-shooting/index.html

 

[DaveXA]

Dang. I saw that this thread had some replies today and thought someone had already covered the mass shooting du jour. Guess not.

At least 8 dead after shooting at public transit rail yard in San Jose, California

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/26/us/san-jose-shooting/index.html

Yeah, that's been on the news much of the day, but details still seem scarce. I was just waiting to see what more comes of this before commenting.

It sounds like 8 people were killed and then guy offed himself.

 

[Denzien]

Well, this seems like a great idea
========================
Texas is a step closer to allowing residents to carry handguns openly in public without a permit or training, becoming the most populous state in the United States to do so.


Despite criticism from gun-control groups and law enforcement leaders, the state’s Republican-led legislature approved a bill late Monday night that drops one of the state’s last major gun restrictions, sending the measure to Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who has said he intends to sign it.


“The strongest Second Amendment legislation in Texas history,” Abbott tweeted days before the bill was passed. “Let’s get it to my desk for signing.”


Abbott’s office did not respond to a question about when he intends to sign it into law or queries regarding the concerns raised by critics, who fear the measure could lead to an increase in gun violence.

Gun-control groups have pointed to the state’s recent history of mass shootings, including those at an El Paso Walmart, a Houston-area high school and a movie theater in Odessa.


A majority of Texas voters, 59 percent, oppose permitless carry, according to a University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll conducted last month.

But supporters of the “constitutional carry” bill, including the National Rifle Association, hailed it as the greatest Texas “gun rights victory since the Alamo” and said it repeals restrictions that infringe on a constitutional right to bear arms...........

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/25/texas-open-carry-gun-bill/

I'm not sure I understand the angst. People who intend to commit crimes are already carrying without a permit.
Since Texas isn't the first state to implement constitutional carry, I decided to look at other states to see if there was a clear pattern of increased homicides after passing similar laws / repealing old restrictions.

I put together a spreadsheet of states and their intentional homicide rates during the 2010s (because that was the most readily available information).
I marked the rates in bold where the state had some form of constitutional carry, and in underlined italics where only half the year had such a law.
There are several states that are too new to constitutional carry to have data.
* Note that I excluded Washington DC and Puerto Rico, because their inclusion made even Louisiana's murder rate green with the conditional formatting.

I see some states where the murder rate went up after constitutional carry, and some states where the murder rate went down after constitutional carry was implemented.
I see some states where the murder rate went up in the absence of constitutional carry, and some states where the murder rate went down in the absence of constitutional carry.

69% of Constitutional Carry states have an intentional homicide rate lower than or equal to the national rate [in 2019]
61% of all other states have an intentional homicide rate lower than or equal to the national rate [in 2019]
This is basically equal, given that the number of constitutional carry states with data is so small, one state changing makes them actually equal.

There is no clear pattern. Vermont has been a constitutional carry state for its entire existence, as far as I can tell, and has the second lowest murder rate [on average for the 2010 decade] but I don't hear any whinging about Vermont's laws.

I also did a similar chart for Texas from 1960-2019, because that was the most readily available data.

One can either conclude that allowing citizens to carry in Texas reduced the homicide rate, or that it's completely coincidental - but one cannot conclude that allowing concealed carry caused the homicide rate to get higher without some seriously strong evidence.


What will constitutional carry do to Texas? We will have to see - but running around screaming that the sky is falling is pretty funny. You guys should keep doing that.

(and anyway, the constitutional carry law is only effective in the state - one will need to obtain a permit to carry in another state if it has reciprocity with Texas, unless that state allows constitutional carry for non-residents)

 

[Denzien]

They’ll change their opinions once there is a BLM protest full of people open carrying, watch.

It's absolutely their right to carry firearms, IMO, which is definitely something that happened during the BLM protests last summer. Open carry of a rifle is already legal.

Just don't use it to intimidate people like the late Garrett Foster tried to do when he pointed his AK pattern rifle at an active-duty Army Sergent in downtown Austin.

Remember kids - never point a firearm unless you're both prepared and justified to use it.

 

[JRad]

Remember kids - never point a firearm unless you're both prepared and justified to use it.

As silly as it seems, this was more or less the stuff I was talking about with my post. They hammered us with this little (but very important) stuff when I did hunter’s education yearrssssssss ago, and I really think it’s beneficial for everyone to have some basic training.

I don’t really care what you own, I just care that you own it safely.

 

[Denzien]

As silly as it seems, this was more or less the stuff I was talking about with my post. They hammered us with this little (but very important) stuff when I did hunter’s education yearrssssssss ago, and I really think it’s beneficial for everyone to have some basic training.

I don’t really care what you own, I just care that you own it safely.

I totally agree that everyone who owns firearms and their families should be trained in safe handling, operation, and the law. It took me a long time to get my wife to get firearms trained, which I had been nudging her on not because I want her to enjoy shooting (though that would be pretty cool), but because we have firearms.
When you know nothing about a topic, literally everything is possible (like "if I step on a bullet, could it shoot someone next to me?").

She still doesn't like them, but at least all the Hollywood stupidity has been dispelled. She will actually see something on one of her programs and point out what's wrong.

I seem to recall reading something about public schools teaching firearm safety back in the 60s or something. That kind of thing gets frowned on today, but wouldn't that satisfy the needs to eventually educate everyone?

However, as far as allowing government the power to regulate who can exercise a right they are not allowed to abridge ... you lose me there on your previous post.

 

[JRad]

However, as far as allowing government the power to regulate who can exercise a right they are not allowed to abridge ... you lose me there on your previous post.

We require licenses and/or permits for any number of things from driving a car to owning a pet to adding on to your house. I don’t think it’s an absurd idea to require something for something quite literally designed to kill. But we’ll just have to agree to disagree.