Next Speaker of the House? (1 Viewer)

[MT15]

There’s a lot of doubt that Kevin McCarthy will be able to get enough votes to become Speaker. It certainly won’t happen on the first ballot. Already Boboert and MTG are publicly at odds over it.

Maybe this is worth it’s own thread to watch. One person mentioned is Scalise.

 

[SystemShock]

Meh. The Democrats had no reason to vote to save McCarthy, nor should they have.

Yes, they did. Prevent the likes on Scalise, Jordan, Johnson from becoming Speaker.

If people keep voting for the American Taliban party, then we're going to get American Taliban rule. Nobody should be surprised. This is what America, with its screwed up gerrymandered map and right wing SC, voted for.

And how did that happen? By chance?

Polls are saying Trump has a lead on Biden right now in the election. That's unfathomable to me after his first 4 years and the debacle of his presidency, and yet here we are. Nobody is going to convince me that Biden has been so bad that Trump deserves another 4 years. For the times we're living in, Biden has been a very decent president. If Americans vote for another 4 years of Trump, then America will get the American Taliban/MAGA rule that it voted for.

Why do you think the polls say that?

The problem is American voters continuing to elect American Taliban/MAGA, plain and simple.

Why do you think that is?

But keep absolving the Democrats from all wrong doing, and more importantly, inaction.

 

[coldseat]

Yes, they did. Prevent the likes on Scalise, Jordan, Johnson from becoming Speaker.

Meh. Republicans were going to elect who they elected. Democrats offered to work with some of the "moderate" Republicans, but they were resolved to only work within their conference and predictably elected and extremist. Because that's what Republicans have been doing repeatedly.

And how did that happen? By chance?

No, because people in this country are stupid.

Why do you think the polls say that?

Because people in this country are stupid and ignorant.

Why do you think that is?

Because voters in this country are stupid and ignorant.

But keep absolving the Democrats from all wrong doing, and more importantly, inaction.

I mostly like what Democrats are doing, trying to do and stand for. So I'm not absolving them of anything. I'm blaming Republicans for what they are doing and calling American voters stupid for continuously voting them into power to do it.

 

[SystemShock]

Meh.

Yah, keep on meh'ing. Don't forget to "meh" on the LGBTQ+, abortion, voting rights, gerrymandering, racism threads as well.

 

[MT15]

But keep absolving the Democrats from all wrong doing, and more importantly, inaction.

What are you holding against Democrats for not accomplishing?

 

[Saint by the Bay]

This is all happening for the same reason we saw a rise of fascism in the 30's: because groups that make up demographic majorities feel their importance, power, and control is waning to demographic minorities. A group of people has learned that if they can place themselves as their defenders and dehumanize those demographic minority groups (race, sex, and religion) they can attain power over the majority groups.

This isn't new. It's a tale as old as time. Voting for McCarthy wasn't going to change human nature, and it wasn't going to slow our slide into MAGA-based fascism.

 

[DaveXA]

This is all happening for the same reason we saw a rise of fascism in the 30's: because groups that make up demographic majorities feel their importance, power, and control is waning to demographic minorities. A group of people has learned that if they can place themselves as their defenders and dehumanize those demographic minority groups (race, sex, and religion) they can attain power over the majority groups.

This isn't new. It's a tale as old as time. Voting for McCarthy wasn't going to change human nature, and it wasn't going to slow our slide into MAGA-based fascism.

I just think it would have slowed it down somewhat. How it's turned out, they're actually hastening it. But it feels to me like people just don't care. I hate what I'm seeing and hope that election trends slows down the outright Fascism, but I'm not sure it will happen.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I just think it would have slowed it down somewhat. How it's turned out, they're actually hastening it. But it feels to me like people just don't care. I hate what I'm seeing and hope that election trends slows down the outright Fascism, but I'm not sure it will happen.

I don't see where anything has changed at this point. We will see what happens re: govt shutdown, but everything else is business as usual. McCarthy wasn't MAGA, but he was weak and certainly kissed the MAGA ring.

In the last rise of the 30's it took the atrocities of the 40's to turn people against fascism. We think of it as a bad word today, but it wasn't pre-WW2. MAGA is here, but fascism is on the rise all over the western world. In the age of siloed information, I'm not sure even atrocities will stem the tide. I don't think it can be slowed down this time.

 

[DaveXA]

I don't see where anything has changed at this point. We will see what happens re: govt shutdown, but everything else is business as usual. McCarthy wasn't MAGA, but he was weak and certainly kissed the MAGA ring.

In the last rise of the 30's it took the atrocities of the 40's to turn people against fascism. We think of it as a bad word today, but it wasn't pre-WW2. MAGA is here, but fascism is on the rise all over the western world. In the age of siloed information, I'm not sure even atrocities will stem the tide this time. I don't think it can be slowed down this time.

You may be right. I know it's said every election, but the 2024 elections are probably going to be the most consequential of our lifetime. Will we be on the right side of history when it counts? I hope so.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

You may be right. I know it's said every election, but the 2024 elections are probably going to be the most consequential of our lifetime. Will we be on the right side of history when it counts? I hope so.

I think 2016 was. Everything that has happened since then is on the wrong side of history. 2024 is just the next step.

 

[DaveXA]

I think 2016 was. Everything that has happened since then is on the wrong side of history. 2024 is just the next step.

Maybe, I mean, Biden was elected in 2020, so there's definitely some pushback. I don't know about 2024 though. Could go either way imo.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Maybe, I mean, Biden was elected in 2020, so there's definitely some pushback. I don't know about 2024 though. Could go either way imo.

He was, but likely only because of a global pandemic that killed over 1 million people. We have followed that up with a focused effort by one of America's two major parties to overturn it, a series of laws being enacted to allow Republican-controlled state legislators to throw out election results, a violent riot at the capital that is now celebrated by members of that party complete with a Jan 6 Choir, and about a third of the American public still believing it was stolen.

The collapse of a democracy isn't a straight line, it's a fading heartbeat. November of 2020 was a brief spike in the heart rhythm but the death is still coming. I watched my grandfather die and wake up three times in one night before he finally rested for good that evening.

 

[J-DONK]

This could've been prevented by the Democrats, by simply keeping McCarthy as Speaker. They overplayed their hand. McCarthy may be a sleaze ball, but he's not American Taliban/MAGA. Keeping McCarthy would have created more strife in the GOP side.

Yet, 31 Democrats voted to keep George Santos seated. I mean...


Talk about failed strategies. Don't anyone tell me the Dems don't have a hand in this shirt show.

Can we applaud the mental gymnastics it takes to blame Democrats for Republican's electing their speaker.

Republicans are not children. At some point, you have to hold them accountable for their own actions.

This was brought up a thousand times before. The problem with voting for a Republican speaker is they have the majority. There is nothing stopping Mccarthy from going right back to Hunter's laptop, and impeaching Biden. The difference? It looks like Democrats in the house signed off on his actions, or got played.

You guys who keep talking about this are just outing yourselves at not understanding how the House works, nor politics.

Please keep this opinion to yourselves. I'm beyond tired of hearing it.

 

[SystemShock]

Can we applaud the mental gymnastics it takes to blame Democrats for Republican's electing their speaker.

No need for applause. I am not blaming the Democrats for Republicans electing their Speaker. I am pointing out the Democrats overplayed their hand, and the House ended with a worse Speaker than the previous. McCarthy may be a scumbag, but he's not a true MAGA Bible thumper scumbag, and keeping McCarthy as Speaker would've cause more strife and infighting within the Republicans.

You guys who keep talking about this are just outing yourselves at not understanding how the House works, nor politics.

LOL!!!

Why did McCarthy get in trouble with the Republicans?
Did the Democrats have the means to keep McCarthy as Speaker?

Please keep this opinion to yourselves.

Nope.

You may want to let some air out of you.

 

[coldseat]

No need for applause. I am not blaming the Democrats for Republicans electing their Speaker. I am pointing out the Democrats overplayed their hand, and the House ended with a worse Speaker than the previous. McCarthy may be a scumbag, but he's not a true MAGA Bible thumper scumbag, and keeping McCarthy as Speaker would've cause more strife and infighting within the Republicans.

How do you know that Johnson won't cause more strife and infighting with Republicans? They appear united on the surface right now, but give it a little bit of time.

LOL!!!

Why did McCarthy get in trouble with the Republicans?

Because he made a stupid deal to become Speaker. Anybody with half a brain cell knew McCarthy would end up exactly where he did when he made that deal. He deserved what he got.

Did the Democrats have the means to keep McCarthy as Speaker?

Yes they could have, but again, what reason did they have to do save his Speakership? To prevent Johnson, who was on nobody's radar, from becoming Speaker? They couldn't have foretold that. The other two you mentioned didn't become Speaker. The Republican conference had a chance to elect a moderate in Emer and didn't even give him a floor vote. Essentially you asking them to vote for a bad Speaker to protect the country from Republicans electing a worse Speaker, who wasn't even a prospect to be Speaker before it happened, after the "moderates' in the Republican party folded.

 

[DaveXA]

How do you know that Johnson won't cause more strife and infighting with Republicans? They appear united on the surface right now, but it a little bit of time.



Because he made a stupid deal to become Speaker. Anybody with half a brain cell knew McCarthy would end up exactly where he did when he made that deal. He deserved what he got.



Yes they could have, but again, what reason did they have to do save his Speakership? To prevent Johnson, who was on nobody's radar, from becoming Speaker? They couldn't have foretold that. The other two you mentioned didn't become Speaker. The Republican conference had a chance to elect a moderate in Emer and didn't even give him a floor vote. Essentially you asking them to vote for a bad Speaker to protect the country from Republicans electing a worse Speaker, who wasn't even a prospect to be Speaker before it happened, after the "moderates' in the Republican party folded.

If we're serious about making "for good of the country decisions", you vote to keep McCarthy as Speaker. Now we're stuck with a far worse Speaker than McCarthy.

I wasn't really a fan of doing this because I could clearly see the worse alternatives. I mean, Jordan was given several floor votes. And he's the worst possible of all of them. They picked the 2nd worst.

This is 90% on the Republicans no doubt. But the Democrats are at minimum, partially responsible. They made the decision to join 9 idiot Republicans to vote McCarthy out. It was a mistake and now they have to live with Johnson as Speaker, and he's ultimately a Bible thumping Maga who voted to reject the election results in 2020 and believes Trump won the election.

So, letting them off the hook is irresponsible imo.

 

[coldseat]

If we're serious about making "for good of the country decisions", you vote to keep McCarthy as Speaker. Now we're stuck with a far worse Speaker than McCarthy.

I wasn't really a fan of doing this because I could clearly see the worse alternatives. I mean, Jordan was given several floor votes. And he's the worst possible of all of them. They picked the 2nd worst.

This is 90% on the Republicans no doubt. But the Democrats are at minimum, partially responsible. They made the decision to join 9 idiot Republicans to vote McCarthy out. It was a mistake and now they have to live with Johnson as Speaker, and he's ultimately a Bible thumping Maga who voted to reject the election results in 2020 and believes Trump won the election.

So, letting them off the hook is irresponsible imo.

I'm unconvinced. Unconvinced that McCarthy was any better and unconvinced that we're in any worse shape as a country. We were screwed when Republicans gained the majority, that hasn't changed.

If only we had two parties that made decisions for the good of the country equally, but only Democrats are held to that standard. Republicans can fork the country more and more with every election cycle and still get voted into power. And then the electorate blames Democrats for the government not working and for Republican's doing what they always do.

 

[DaveXA]

I'm unconvinced. Unconvinced that McCarthy was any better and unconvinced that we're in any worse shape as a country. We were screwed when Republicans gained the majority, that hasn't changed.

If only we had two parties that made decisions for the good of the country equally, but only Democrats are held to that standard. Republicans can fork the country more and more with every election cycle and still get voted into power. And then the electorate blames Democrats for the government not working for for Republican's doing what they always do.

I get all that, sympathize even, but they missed the mark here. They made a choice by voting with the crazies to the effect of getting more crazy. Like I said, 90% Republican 10% Democrat got us in a worse spot now than we were before this whole mess started.

I can't accept that this couldn't have been avoided.

 

[coldseat]

I get all that, sympathize even, but they missed the mark here. They made a choice by voting with the crazies to the effect of getting more crazy. Like I said, 90% Republican 10% Democrat got us in a worse spot now than we were before this whole mess started.

I can't accept that this couldn't have been avoided.

It could have totally been avoided, but Republicans refused to work with Democrats. They never do.

So while this was completely avoidable, it was also unavoidable because of Republican obstinance. Regardless, Democrats voting out of fear of what might be or for the good of the country (however you choose to define that) to retain a Speaker they didn't have a working relationship with wasn't ever going to be the answer.