Law be damned, Trump asserts unilateral control over executive branch, federal service (5 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Following the Project 2025 playbook, in the last week, Trump and his newly installed loyalists have moved to (1) dismiss federal officials deemed unreliable to do his bidding (including 17 inspectors general) - many of which have protections from arbitrary dismissal, (2) freeze all science and public health activity until he can wrest full control, (3) freeze all federal assistance and grant activity deemed inconsistent with Trump's agenda, and (4) moved to terminate all federal employee telework and DEI programs.

The problem is much of this is controlled by federal law and not subject to sudden and complete change by the president through executive order. Most notably is the Impoundment Control Act of 1974 that simply codifies what is the constitutional allocation of resources where Congress appropriates money to the executive branch for a specific purpose, the executive branch must carry out that statutory purpose. This is indeed a constitutional crisis and even if Congress abdicates to Trump by acquiescing, the courts must still apply the law - or rule it unconstitutional.

And meanwhile the architect of much of this unlawful action is Russell Vought, Trump’s OMB nominee who the Senate appears ready to confirm.

120. The Impoundment Crisis of 2025

The Trump administration's Monday spending freeze is likely to provoke a crisis over the constitutionality of "impoundment"—one that the justices could well have to resolve *very* soon.

www.stevevladeck.com

 

[TampaJoe]

Why did the system barely work last time? Might it do something with the national guard responding to the VP's orders and not the Presidents (i.e. that's not the system working, btw)? Might it have been something to do with a Democratic Congress bringing impeachment charges against Trump in the aftermath that made him pipe down and begrudgingly accept his fate? Maybe it was people at the Justice Department willing to stand up and assert their independence and apply the rule of law?

Do those things seem like they're in place next time around? It wasn't the constitution that did that, it was people willing to stand up and force/apply the constitution or in the case of Pence ignore to deal with an emergency and save his life. Your inability or desire to not critically think about these things shows why your beliefs and assurances in "the constitution" are meaningless.

Also, why is this degenerate in office now again? Because other people (i.e. Republicans) at the time were unwilling to stand up and apply/force the constitution.

Trumps in office now because he was duly elected under the Constitution. You don’t have to like it. I don’t have to like it. It wasn’t and isn’t up to me. The voters decide.

As far as holding POTUS to account, that varies. Dems don’t hold their Presidents to account. Republicans don’t hold their Presidents to account. So if and until they get together and decide to stop this merry go round and be a true coequal branch of government and hold the Chief Executive accountable regardless of party, this won’t change.

The Democrat minority has the same rights as Republican minorities have had in the past. Mainly that’s the courts. It’s naive for you to expect Republican majorities to behave any more responsibly than Democrats majorities. That’s why we have swing elections every other term. That’s why more and more people identify as independents.

 

[RobF]

Yes it was just an attempted coup so it doesn’t count



And Sideshow Bob faced consequences for his attempted crime

No no, an attempted coup failing shows that a coup is definitively impossible, just as attempted murder failing shows that murder is impossible.

Also both sides!

Think that about covers it.

 

[TampaJoe]

No no, an attempted coup failing shows that a coup is definitively impossible, just as attempted murder failing shows that murder is impossible.

Also both sides!

Think that about covers it.

Yep Rob. Both sides. That does indeed cover it. It’s called hypocrisy by some. You can call it both sides if you prefer. It is what it is.

 

[coldseat]

Trumps in office now because he was duly elected under the Constitution. You don’t have to like it. I don’t have to like it. It wasn’t and isn’t up to me. The voters decide.

As far as holding POTUS to account, that varies. Dems don’t hold their Presidents to account. Republicans don’t hold their Presidents to account. So if and until they get together and decide to stop this merry go round and be a true coequal branch of government and hold the Chief Executive accountable regardless of party, this won’t change.

The Democrat minority has the same rights as Republican minorities have had in the past. Mainly that’s the courts. It’s naive for you to expect Republican majorities to behave any more responsibly than Democrats majorities. That’s why we have swing elections every other term. That’s why more and more people identify as independents.

This is such a myopic view.

Also, this is not a response to the points I made in my last post. It's almost like you couldn't respond to the actual points I made so you ignored them and changed the subject.

Trump is in office now because Republican Senators didn't have the stones to convict him of impeachment and prevent him from being able to run again even when they had unquestionable evidence of his guilt. Then enough people bought into propaganda, had convenient amnesia about what happened 4 years earlier and voted the criminal back into office. Now we all get to suffer the consequences of a broken system/country. But you want to believe in "the constitution" ... okay.

 

[TampaJoe]

This is such a myopic view.

Also, this is not a response to the points I made in my last post. It's almost like you couldn't respond to the actual points I made so you ignored them and changed the subject.

Trump is in office now because Republican Senators didn't have the stones to convict him of impeachment and prevent him from being able to run again even when they had unquestionable evidence of his guilt. Then enough people bought into propaganda, had convenient amnesia about what happened 4 years earlier and voted the criminal back into office. Now we all get to suffer the consequences of a broken system/country. But you want to believe in "the constitution" ... okay.

Yes. I prefer to believe in the Constitution.

I’m all for accountability and holding people to the Constitution REGARDLESS of party. So when both parties in the Congress figures out how to do that, let me know.

 

[wardorican]

Maybe this whole potential constitutional crisis in 3 years and 10 months is pointless and we should all move on? Yall aren't going anywhere with the back and forth.

We have plenty of constitutional crisis currently going on.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[TampaJoe]

Maybe this whole potential constitutional crisis in 3 years and 10 months is pointless and we should all move on? Yall aren't going anywhere with the back and forth.

We have plenty of constitutional crisis currently going on.

Just my 2 cents.

Constitutional crisis as it pertains to the Executive, either present or future, will be handled either in the Congress or in the Courts. The current minority has the same rights as the previous minority to avail themselves of either option.

Those are the legal remedies.

 

[faceman]

I’m not missing the point.

yes you are and so many others too

step back and pray for wisdom. I will come like it did with McConnel

 

[RobF]

Yep Rob. Both sides. That does indeed cover it. It’s called hypocrisy by some. You can call it both sides if you prefer. It is what it is.

It is indeed what it is, but what it is, is laughable.

There is no Democratic president in history remotely equivalent to Donald Trump, who has been impeached for the things Donald Trump has been impeached for. Hence, there can have been no failure from Democratic representatives to impeach a Democratic president for the equivalent things to Donald Trump.

There's no "both sides" here. To be frank, I find it remarkable anyone would have the lack of shame necessary to argue otherwise,

 

[TampaJoe]

yes you are and so many others too

step back and pray for wisdom. I will come like it did with McConnel

Well we all come by wisdom in our own way. If you wish for this to be a nation of laws, then you start by enforcing the law regardless of party. You can’t have it both ways. I have watched this dog and pony show for years. It always ends the same with this selective outrage over the other parties abuses. So if you are a Dem and you want Republicans to hold their leaders accountable to the law in letter and in spirit, then you start by applying those standards to Dem leaders. You don’t wait for a crisis to get religion. Then it’s too late.

So all this manufactured outrage over Trumps abuses is lost on me. It’s pure hypocrisy to trash Republicans for the same gutless conduct the Dems have been practicing for years.

The voters have come to see this duplicity. That’s why they voted for someone, anyone, who they thought will not just talk about draining the swamp but actually do it. I have my doubts that Trumps the guy but we will see.

But if you guys think it’s a crisis, go to court. It’s the same thing the Dem majorities have been saying to Republican minorities for decades. You have the same rights as they have. Take em to court. Just spare us all the whining about the end of the world. It didn’t work during the election and it isn’t any fresher today.

 

[efil4]

It is indeed what it is, but what it is, is laughable.

There is no Democratic president in history remotely equivalent to Donald Trump, who has been impeached for the things Donald Trump has been impeached for. Hence, there can have been no failure from Democratic representatives to impeach a Democratic president for the equivalent things to Donald Trump.

There's no "both sides" here. To be frank, I find it remarkable anyone would have the lack of shame necessary to argue otherwise,

their ignorance is a badge of honor now.

They have been marginalized for so very long, with hardly a voice, and just accepted their position.

That has all changed. They now have a platform, a megaphone and the ear of every other person who felt the same way. Their shame has been shed long ago.

This is all about payback for so many. They feel emboldened and worth something. Something they never felt before. And they have the dial turned to 10.

 

[efil4]

Well we all come by wisdom in our own way. If you wish for this to be a nation of laws, then you start by enforcing the law regardless of party. You can’t have it both ways. I have watched this dog and pony show for years. It always ends the same with this selective outrage over the other parties abuses. So if you are a Dem and you want Republicans to hold their leaders accountable to the law in letter and in spirit, then you start by applying those standards to Dem leaders. You don’t wait for a crisis to get religion. Then it’s too late.

So all this manufactured outrage over Trumps abuses is lost on me. It’s pure hypocrisy to trash Republicans for the same gutless conduct the Dems have been practicing for years.

The voters have come to see this duplicity. That’s why they voted for someone, anyone, who they thought will not just talk about draining the swamp but actually do it. I have my doubts that Trumps the guy but we will see.

But if you guys think it’s a crisis, go to court. It’s the same thing the Dem majorities have been saying to Republican minorities for decades. You have the same rights as they have. Take em to court. Just spare us all the whining about the end of the world. It didn’t work during the election and it isn’t any fresher today.

what gutless conduct has Dems practiced for years?

Care to list some of this conduct?

Where has a Dem POTUS put a private citizen in charge of overhauling the US Federal govt?
Where has a DEM POTUS pardoned every individual involved in an attempted insurrection on the US Capitol?
Where has a DEM POTUS said to hell with the courts, ill do what i want?

ill wait for some of your "equivalencies" - no matter how false they will be.

 

[Booker]

Well we all come by wisdom in our own way. If you wish for this to be a nation of laws, then you start by enforcing the law regardless of party. You can’t have it both ways. I have watched this dog and pony show for years. It always ends the same with this selective outrage over the other parties abuses. So if you are a Dem and you want Republicans to hold their leaders accountable to the law in letter and in spirit, then you start by applying those standards to Dem leaders. You don’t wait for a crisis to get religion. Then it’s too late.

So all this manufactured outrage over Trumps abuses is lost on me. It’s pure hypocrisy to trash Republicans for the same gutless conduct the Dems have been practicing for years.

The voters have come to see this duplicity. That’s why they voted for someone, anyone, who they thought will not just talk about draining the swamp but actually do it. I have my doubts that Trumps the guy but we will see.

But if you guys think it’s a crisis, go to court. It’s the same thing the Dem majorities have been saying to Republican minorities for decades. You have the same rights as they have. Take em to court. Just spare us all the whining about the end of the world. It didn’t work during the election and it isn’t any fresher today.

Please find me a Democratic equivalent to the following:

• Withholding Congressionally approved aid to an ally while requesting the ally to annouce an investigation into a political opponent in exchange for the aid.
• Attemping to overturn a lost election with both the false electors and also by both calling a mob to the White House and then siccing them on Congress.
• Stealing -- not passively retaining but actively taking -- boxes and boxes of classified documents, and then refusing to return them and lying about having done so.
• Pardoning the people who attacked Congress.
• Giving his biggest billionaire donor, who has huge conflicts of interest, access and free reign to do as he wished with the Federal Government.

Those are just the greatest hits, but if you can find anything even remotely comparable, please do enlighten us with how this is really just a "both sides" issue.

 

[J-DONK]

So all this manufactured outrage over Trumps abuses is lost on me. It’s pure hypocrisy to trash Republicans for the same gutless conduct the Dems have been practicing for years.

You make wild proclamations, and never back them up.

Have Democrats ever used, or viewed the unitary executive theory as valid? Have they ever tried to use it the way Republicans are now?

I don't understand why you have enough time to post here so much, but can't go look up basic facts about your opinions.

You come across as a person who failed civics, but wants to share his political opinion constantly.

 

[TampaJoe]

It is indeed what it is, but what it is, is laughable.

There is no Democratic president in history remotely equivalent to Donald Trump, who has been impeached for the things Donald Trump has been impeached for. Hence, there can have been no failure from Democratic representatives to impeach a Democratic president for the equivalent things to Donald Trump.

There's no "both sides" here. To be frank, I find it remarkable anyone would have the lack of shame necessary to argue otherwise,

I’m sure there are many things in the real world you find remarkable.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Well we all come by wisdom in our own way. If you wish for this to be a nation of laws, then you start by enforcing the law regardless of party. You can’t have it both ways. I have watched this dog and pony show for years. It always ends the same with this selective outrage over the other parties abuses. So if you are a Dem and you want Republicans to hold their leaders accountable to the law in letter and in spirit, then you start by applying those standards to Dem leaders. You don’t wait for a crisis to get religion. Then it’s too late.

So all this manufactured outrage over Trumps abuses is lost on me. It’s pure hypocrisy to trash Republicans for the same gutless conduct the Dems have been practicing for years.

The voters have come to see this duplicity. That’s why they voted for someone, anyone, who they thought will not just talk about draining the swamp but actually do it. I have my doubts that Trumps the guy but we will see.

But if you guys think it’s a crisis, go to court. It’s the same thing the Dem majorities have been saying to Republican minorities for decades. You have the same rights as they have. Take em to court. Just spare us all the whining about the end of the world. It didn’t work during the election and it isn’t any fresher today.

Show me how you reached the conclusions that you have repeatedly made about both sides.

Real examples of how Democratic Presidents have done things that would be, even remotely, similar to Trumps.

Every action DOGE has taken has been a direct attack of Article 1 of the Constitution. Trump's EO overriding the 14th Amendment is another attack of our Constitution, as well as his 1st Amendment retaliation against the AP for not repeating his claim of the Gulf of Mexico. His direct attack against the sovereignty of our northern allies is just juvenile and shows that his mind is stuck in the 19th century, a time when this nation was being built off of genocide and slavery...you know, when America was Great!

Show your work.

 

[TampaJoe]

You make wild proclamations, and never back them up.

Have Democrats ever used, or viewed the unitary executive theory as valid? Have they ever tried to use it the way Republicans are now?

I don't understand why you have enough time to post here so much, but can't go look up basic facts about your opinions.

You come across as a person who failed civics, but wants to share his political opinion constantly.

Who said I have a pen and a phone? I don’t recall hearing much pushback from Dems on that rhetoric. I don’t recall hearing any pushback from Dems on Biden’s EO’s. I don’t recall any pushback from Dems on Biden bragging about continuing to bypass SC rulings on student loan forgiveness. I don’t recall any curiosity from Dems at all about all the foreign money flowing to Biden family members. There are others. So you can birch and moan all day long about equivalencies. But fact is you guys only give a crap when it’s the other side. You behave the same way when the finger is pointed at your guy. Double standards are double standards regardless of party. You are perfectly happy with a unitary executive when your guy is in charge. You can pretend it’s otherwise but that dawg don’t hunt anymore.

The public is tired of corruption. From BOTH parties.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Who said I have a pen and a phone? I don’t recall hearing much pushback from Dems on that rhetoric. I don’t recall hearing any pushback from Dems on Biden’s EO’s. I don’t recall any pushback from Dems on Biden bragging about continuing to bypass SC rulings on student loan forgiveness. I don’t recall any curiosity from Dems at all about all the foreign money flowing to Biden family members. There are others. So you can birch and moan all day long about equivalencies. But fact is you guys only give a crap when it’s the other side. You behave the same way when the finger is pointed at your guy. Double standards are double standards regardless of party. You are perfectly happy with a unitary executive when your guy is in charge. You can pretend it’s otherwise but that dawg don’t hunt anymore.

The public is tired of corruption. From BOTH parties.