Immigration is completely out of control (1 Viewer)

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    SystemShock

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    A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

    Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

    It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

    Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

    Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

    Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

    Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

    And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.
     
    Their votes are known and they still lie about how they voted

    They'll vote against a funding bill saying it's the biggest waste of money they'd ever seen

    But when any of that money gets to their district there they are, all smiles and handshakes saying what a great day it is for (TOWN NAME)

    Republicans are really bad about voting against spending bills, and then campaigning on the jobs said spending bill brought to their district/state.
     
    The crazy people went to the border and didn't find a lot of migrants.
    Probably didn't know where to look.

    I think that it's being blown out of proportion. I think that the republicans need an issue to campaign on and immigration is that issue.
    It is blown out of proportion. And it's not just the Republicans. 3-4 months ago Biden was in MX to talk to the Mexican President about the immigration crisis. Last December Blinken, Mayorkas and some other WH officials were in MX to speak with the Mexican President about the immigration crisis.

    Yes people are coming north. They've been coming north for decades. What's different? The republicans want a campaign issue.
    Forget about the Republicans for a second. What is different, is the amount of people trying to get to the U.S. It's millions of people trying to get into the U.S. legally or illegally, and the serious disruptions that is causing all along the way and at both borders. And even though there are other places to go, but instead of going there, they want to go to the U.S.
     
    If this amount of miagration was happening in Africa, the UN would already have refugee camps set up.
    There's actual genocide going on in Africa.

    We need to get refugee camps set up either in Southern Mexico or Guatemala so that these people can access the refugee process.
    "We" don't need to do that. Especially not in Chiapas... MX is already aiding and spending more on non-Mexicans in Chiapas than Mexicans in Chiapas. and people in Chiapas need the help because of the situation they live in, which is exacerbated by wave after wave of people marching through the State.

    We have numerical limits on the number of refugees we can take, but it would also allow for these people to be relocated to Canada, Mexico, or even Europe. They might have to live in the camp for years before they get a spot somewhere, and many of them probably wouldn't want to go to Europe, but it would at least be an orderly process.

    It wouldn't take a year before riots break out in those camps.

    How magnanimous of you, to relocate everyone all over the globe. And not wanting to go to Europe, limosneros con garrote.
     
    The same thing is happening all over the world and years of mishandling and medling by first world powers and made worse by climate change, have lead to the current situation. You see it with african and middle eastern refugees in Europe and central and south american refugees in the US. Even Australia and India/Korea is seeing an influx of refugees.

    This situation IS going to get worse in the years to come. When people cant feed their children or is faced by threats due to war or drought/heat then they will try to survive by leaving and trying to find a safe place for their families. This is only the beginning of a much larger migration wave we will see during the next 10-20 years. Building walls won't solve that - desperate people will resort to desperate solutions.

    No single nation can solve this. More than a billion people are living in areas that potentially will be unliveable in 30 years. Where should they go?
     
    There's actual genocide going on in Africa.


    "We" don't need to do that. Especially not in Chiapas... MX is already aiding and spending more on non-Mexicans in Chiapas than Mexicans in Chiapas. and people in Chiapas need the help because of the situation they live in, which is exacerbated by wave after wave of people marching through the State.



    It wouldn't take a year before riots break out in those camps.

    How magnanimous of you, to relocate everyone all over the globe. And not wanting to go to Europe, limosneros con garrote.

    I still don't care what you think.
     
    Probably didn't know where to look.


    It is blown out of proportion. And it's not just the Republicans. 3-4 months ago Biden was in MX to talk to the Mexican President about the immigration crisis. Last December Blinken, Mayorkas and some other WH officials were in MX to speak with the Mexican President about the immigration crisis.


    Forget about the Republicans for a second. What is different, is the amount of people trying to get to the U.S. It's millions of people trying to get into the U.S. legally or illegally, and the serious disruptions that is causing all along the way and at both borders. And even though there are other places to go, but instead of going there, they want to go to the U.S.


    if it's such a crisis, trump and the republicans shouldn't have killed that bill.

    The only reason why they killed that bill was because trump wants the issue to campaign on, republicans don't want Biden to get the credit for fixing the border and they don't want to cause Biden's poll numbers to go up.

    Republican senator Lankford was threatened by a far right commentator that he would be destroyed if he kept working on that bill or got it passed.

    This is just more garbage by republicans. If they honestly wanted to do something about the border they wouldn't have put trump first and killed the bill.

    Republicans have bought into the garbage hook, line and sinker.
     
    I'll reply to you again when you have something of actual substance, and not drugstore philosophy.
    Cher bebe, bless your heart. You done just replied to me.

    I look forward to the day when you listen to what people say and stop acting like you're an adolescent wannabe tough guy playing System Shock up in here, SystemShock.
     
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    I think issues like this need to be quantified better for people like me. I tend to be strongly pro-immigration overall. I think having different people enter our country assimilate with core American values but adding their own cultural spin on things makes things better for us. It's also good economics especially with our own declining birth rate... those are my inherent biases.

    I also am sensitive to nativist movements in the US that are fed by racist narratives and I reflexively push back against anything that gives of that feel. Rhetoric like "spoiling the blood of our nation" is repulsive to me and my natural instinct is to act contrary to that.

    However, I can also accept that logically there's some limit that we can logistically handle well. That if you get too many people immigrating it puts a strain on local resources. And that part of the assimilation process itself requires immigrant communities to interact and mingle with the existing population and not remain insular, which if you have a large movement becomes easier and easier -- it's a balance between keeping cultural identity and adopting norms and traditions of the new home and there's probably some number where that tilts to strongly away.

    So to me it comes down to numbers and dollars, and long term solutions. I don't need a firm number like we can accept X number of refugees per year.... but I do need some sort of indicator that our infrastructure is being strained. So my question would be what are those indicators, and what are the thresholds.

    And I will say that this is also very much a free market issue, in that there's supply and demand. There is a demand for cheap labor especially with unemployment under 4%. And there's a supply problem with many people feeling like their home country is so bad that they're willing to risk everything to come to the US. So, the answer would need to include controlling demand and within reason controlling supply (the US has a poor record in making things better for foreign nations, so not sure if there's a good answer here).
     
    The same thing is happening all over the world and years of mishandling and medling by first world powers and made worse by climate change, have lead to the current situation. You see it with african and middle eastern refugees in Europe and central and south american refugees in the US. Even Australia and India/Korea is seeing an influx of refugees.

    This situation IS going to get worse in the years to come. When people cant feed their children or is faced by threats due to war or drought/heat then they will try to survive by leaving and trying to find a safe place for their families. This is only the beginning of a much larger migration wave we will see during the next 10-20 years. Building walls won't solve that - desperate people will resort to desperate solutions.

    No single nation can solve this. More than a billion people are living in areas that potentially will be unliveable in 30 years. Where should they go?
    I wish people would listen to you, climatologist and the US Dept of Defense.

    The extreme weather generated by climate change are fueling a lot of the conflicts in the world. Religion, nationality, and other tribal identities are being used as a rallying cry, but most of the conflict in the world is for control over decreasing supplies of drinkable water and arable land.

    Coastal communities are either steadily being inundated with sea level rise or cutoff from boat access to the ocean due to sea level lowering, like on the coasts of Greenland. China isn't flexing it's muscles over control over the South China sea just to be macho, world dominators. They're doing it because they need all the fish from it to feed their citizens and the situation is going to get more dire for them every year.

    This is all going to get much worse a lot faster than most expect, because not enough of us are doing anything to mitigate our fueling of climate change. The Dept of Defense has been warning for at least a decade that the biggest threat to national and global security is climate change. The lack of food and water creates military conflict and both of those combined is causing the global, climate driven diaspora. As much as some try to deny that's at play with the migration to the US, it very much is a significant contributing factor.

    What's being called an increase in migration is actually just the beginning of an unprecedented global diaspora. It appears that way too many people in the world are willing to literally and metaphorically close the gates on billions of people and abandon them to suffer whatever comes there way. People are willing to be that callous and cruel, because they are panicked and in fight survival mode. They've fooled themselves into believing they are more rational, smarter, stronger and ultimately more deserving than everyone else.

    I wonder what Jesus Jones thinks about being right here, right now? Personally, I think we're fighting over who's entitled to the best seat in the house to listen to our leaders play the fiddle while the theater burns down around all of us. Over the next 20 years I think around 4 billion people will die from dehydration, starvation, untreated treatable illness and injury, natural disaster, military conflict, mass murder and suicide. I'm reciting the serenity prayer often and passionately these days. It only helps a little.
     
    When I talk about immigration being good for the economy, I'm referring to things like this:


    So I want to frame things as costs and benefits, and this is clearly a benefit.
     
    When I talk about immigration being good for the economy, I'm referring to things like this:


    So I want to frame things as costs and benefits, and this is clearly a benefit.
    I’m of the opinion that the US is nowhere near being a world power like we are today without our past immigration efforts. Every generation we have welcomed a new set of immigrants and they have enriched us beyond measure. I know we have some geographical advantages, but they pale in comparison to the advantages gained by welcoming wave after wave of immigrants.

    And I am not talking about wealthy immigrants who come here because their families are well-to-do in their native lands. No, the farmers, peasants and working class immigrants from all over the world built this country and made it what it is today.

    People who are anti-immigration would choke this source of innovation off if they get their way. And for what? I truly don’t get the mindset.
     
    I’m of the opinion that the US is nowhere near being a world power like we are today without our past immigration efforts. Every generation we have welcomed a new set of immigrants and they have enriched us beyond measure. I know we have some geographical advantages, but they pale in comparison to the advantages gained by welcoming wave after wave of immigrants.

    And I am not talking about wealthy immigrants who come here because their families are well-to-do in their native lands. No, the farmers, peasants and working class immigrants from all over the world built this country and made it what it is today.

    People who are anti-immigration would choke this source of innovation off if they get their way. And for what? I truly don’t get the mindset.

    Even more, having a fresh set of poor people who can appreciate the opportunity this country offers their children, helps make sure that we have people who here who actually appreciate the country.

    People born here who are the 6 or 7th generation removed from their immigrant experience don't appreciate it, they expect it.

    The same goes for wealthy people who move here, they don't appreciate what the country has to offer the same way that 1, 2nd or even 3rd generation immigrants from poor families do.

    People who claim we want educated and skilled immigrants are really missing the benefit of us being a country of immigrants. We want people who got more from the US than they could possibly give it. That is how you get people who are loyal to the country and appreciate what it has to offer.

    The great great grandsons of the confederacy love to dress up in patriotism, but they don't really love or appreciate what the country stands for.
     
    First, Biden has actually issued more executive orders pertaining to controlling the border than Trump did.
    Many of Biden’s executive orders on the border were undoing Trumps executive orders on the border. Biden's order didn't make it hard for people to get into the country. They made it easier. See parole for an example.

    Second, Biden did say that asylum seekers would be heard - that's the actual law. It's been Republicans who have been advertising this as an open border.
    I understand about asylum laws, but why would he tell them to surge to the border? That's much more of an advertisement than what you claim of Republicans.
    Basically, my opinion is that Republicans have been using this purely as a political issue with no actual concern for the actual issue, and their sudden reversal on supporting this type of bill confirms it. This is another example of how politics ruins everything - the Democrats actually did start going more to the "left" on this issue after Donald Trump made it his central theme in 2016, but in the past year as their poll numbers started looking terrible on this issue have moderated back closer to their original position (I think this latest bill is actually to the "right" of their position pre-2016).
    That bill was a joke and it wouldn't have done much to fix the border. It was mainly window dressing to get the money for Ukraine, Isreal, Yemen, etc. It also gave more money to the NGOs who are helping facilitate all the migrants.

    The House passed an Immigration bill a while back. The Senate ignored it.

    The Democrats want amnesty for all the illegal immigrants. That's the endgame for them in regards to immigration. They only recently claimed to want to fix the border when they realized they couldn't get the Ukraine money without it.
     

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