Dr. Jill Biden - This really became an argument?? (1 Viewer)

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wardorican

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This is the Op-Ed that started it all from 83 yr old Joseph Epstein.

Madame First Lady—Mrs. Biden—Jill—kiddo: a bit of advice on what may seem like a small but I think is a not unimportant matter. Any chance you might drop the “Dr.” before your name? “Dr. Jill Biden” sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic. Your degree is, I believe, an Ed.D., a doctor of education, earned at the University of Delaware through a dissertation with the unpromising title “Student Retention at the Community College Level: Meeting Students’ Needs.” A wise man once said that no one should call himself “Dr.” unless he has delivered a child. Think about it, Dr. Jill, and forthwith drop the doc.

I taught at Northwestern University for 30 years without a doctorate or any advanced degree. I have only a B.A. in absentia from the University of Chicago—in absentia because I took my final examination on a pool table at Headquarters Company, Fort Hood, Texas, while serving in the peacetime Army in the late 1950s. I do have an honorary doctorate, though I have to report that the president of the school that awarded it was fired the year after I received it, not, I hope, for allowing my honorary doctorate. During my years as a university teacher I was sometimes addressed, usually on the phone, as “Dr. Epstein.” On such occasions it was all I could do not to reply, “Read two chapters of Henry James and get into bed. I’ll be right over.”

I was also often addressed as Dr. during the years I was editor of the American Scholar, the quarterly magazine of Phi Beta Kappa. Let me quickly insert that I am also not a member of Phi Beta Kappa, except by marriage. Many of those who so addressed me, I noted, were scientists. I also received a fair amount of correspondence from people who appended the initials Ph.D. to their names atop their letterheads, and have twice seen PHD on vanity license plates, which struck me as pathetic. In contemporary universities, in the social sciences and humanities, calling oneself Dr. is thought bush league.

The Ph.D. may once have held prestige, but that has been diminished by the erosion of seriousness and the relaxation of standards in university education generally, at any rate outside the sciences. Getting a doctorate was then an arduous proceeding: One had to pass examinations in two foreign languages, one of them Greek or Latin, defend one’s thesis, and take an oral examination on general knowledge in one’s field. At Columbia University of an earlier day, a secretary sat outside the room where these examinations were administered, a pitcher of water and a glass on her desk. The water and glass were there for the candidates who fainted. A far cry, this, from the few doctoral examinations I sat in on during my teaching days, where candidates and teachers addressed one another by first names and the general atmosphere more resembled a kaffeeklatsch. Dr. Jill, I note you acquired your Ed.D. as recently as 15 years ago at age 55, or long after the terror had departed.
A bit after this it's behind the paywall, so I won't include it.

there has been a lot of backlash on him.


This is from the Editorial page editor...

Paul Gigot, editorial page editor for the Journal, defended Epstein’s op-ed in a piece published Monday, arguing that the commentary is “fair.”

“The issue of Jill Biden’s educational honorific isn’t new. As long ago as 2009, the Los Angeles Times devoted a story to the subject. From the piece by Robin Abcarian: 'Joe Biden, on the campaign trail, explained that his wife’s desire for the highest degree was in response to what she perceived as her second-class status on their mail. ‘She said, “I was so sick of the mail coming to Sen. and Mrs. Biden. I wanted to get mail addressed to Dr. and Sen. Biden.” That’s the real reason she got her doctorate,’ he said.’”

Gigot also defended Epstein’s use of the word “kiddo” to refer to Biden, saying that her husband, now-President-elect Joe Biden, also “used it to refer to his wife in the context of his many proposals of marriage” during a speech in 2012.

“Mr. Epstein also infuriated dozens of educators defending their doctorates. But that status isn’t sacrosanct or out-of-bounds for debate. Mr. Epstein’s point applies to men and women and his piece also mocked men for their honorary degrees,” he wrote.

“Mrs. Biden is now America’s most prominent doctorate holder and is taking a leading role in education policy. She can’t be off-limits for commentary,” Gigot added.

“If you disagree with Mr. Epstein, fair enough. Write a letter or shout your objections on Twitter. But these pages aren’t going to stop publishing provocative essays merely because they offend the new administration or the political censors in the media and academe. And since it’s a time to heal, we’ll give the Biden crowd a mulligan for their attacks on us.”

So, is this a thing? If you have a PhD, or Ed D, or JD, if you want to be called Dr... so what? Are MD's the only ones allowed to be called Dr? What about DO's? Dentists?

They're always going to be a little ribbing in the fields, but her degree isn't an honorary one like the opinion writer's. Where's the beef?
 

Saint by the Bay

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To be fair about the Kiddo part, the man is 83 and I think Joe calls his wife Kiddo (at least that was a defense I saw floating around), so he was being cute using Joe's term of endearment. (if I'm accurate, I may not be).

I don't say this as an excuse, but just acknowledgement that older folks talk a little differently and yes, misogyny is sort of hard wired into them.
I could accept that if the entire editorial wasn't centered on demeaning her. That leads me to believe his intent was to condescend, not a nod to Joe's pet name for her.
 

MT15

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Yes, and who hears a man’s pet name for his wife and then thinks it’s okay for him to use it? Especially if he’s not family or even acquainted with her at all? It’s totally meant to diminish and demean.

The fact that the head of WSJ editorial page even offered that as an excuse is just completely on board with the whole misogyny of piece to begin with. It’s probably why he gave the original op-ed a green light to begin with, he is just as bad as the author.
 

Maxp

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One could look at it as a reverting to the pre-Trump Republican style of insulting women. It's progress when you compare it the current brand of "nasty women bleeding out of their wherevers."
 

CoolBrees

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They are the party of anti-intellectualism.

They simply despise science and anything they don’t, or simply can’t, understand.

This is why they latch on to pseudoscience so easily, as it is basically an attempt to discredit mainstream science, imo.

This and they value opinions that are congruent with their “feeling” on a certain issue.

People like the “president” are great at telling these people what they want to hear. And marks don’t really care for actual results. As long as they can feel like they’re correct or “winning.” This is why they can’t accept Trump’s defeat- as massive and complete as it was.
 

SystemShock

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To be fair about the Kiddo part, the man is 83 and I think Joe calls his wife Kiddo (at least that was a defense I saw floating around), so he was being cute using Joe's term of endearment. (if I'm accurate, I may not be).

I don't say this as an excuse, but just acknowledgement that older folks talk a little differently and yes, misogyny is sort of hard wired into them.
That's not being fair. The article was meant to condescend. That opening clearly demonstrates it.
 

nolaspe

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Lol, Scoot was discussing this on WWL radio yesterday while I was out doing errands. I never listen to WWL, but I wasn't driving my car, so I didn't have my jams. Anyway, I called in (as I have an MD, along w/ a master of public health), and ripped Epstein and Carlson eleventy new ones and had Scoot rolling from my colorful language (which included the words troglodytes, mongoloid, bawbag, and choad to name a few in describing them). I also informed him of the origin of the word doctor. It was kinda cathartic especially with the number of drumpflakes who were calling in to cry about the election hehehe...
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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Lol, Scoot was discussing this on WWL radio yesterday while I was out doing errands. I never listen to WWL, but I wasn't driving my car, so I didn't have my jams. Anyway, I called in (as I have an MD, along w/ a master of public health), and ripped Epstein and Carlson eleventy new ones and had Scoot rolling from my colorful language (which included the words troglodytes, mongoloid, bawbag, and choad to name a few in describing them). I also informed him of the origin of the word doctor. It was kinda cathartic especially with the number of drumpflakes who were calling in to cry about the election hehehe...
I had to look up bawbag.
 

insidejob

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I had to look up bawbag.
Tell us all what it means... ;)

I learned of it myself when a friend told me about this company. Let's play a guessing game. Check out this company's name and the description for one of their products and see if you can guess what a bawbag is:

Bawbags Boxer Shorts and Underwear!

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Bawbags Cool De Sacs are premium boxer shorts with our very own Technical Wicking Active Technology, (T.W.A.T.). This special quick drying fabric with a bamboo baw pouch keeps ‘em tidy whatever you get up to!
A portion of proceeds from every pair of Bawbags sold goes to support cancer charities. Remember, 98% of testicular cancer cases are curable if caught early enough, so check yer baws!

- Technical Wicking Active Technology
- Bamboo Baw Pouch
- Breathable, Quick Dry fabric
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GrandAdmiral

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I will say this, not to excuse Epstein, there has always been this thing between those with doctorates in education.

My boss has her PhD in education. My godmother has her EdD in education. Ironically, both were obtained from UNO. My boss will go to her grave never recognizing my godmother, or anyone else with an EdD, as "Dr." I would imagine that will include Jill Biden.

Craziest argument I've ever seen between intellectuals.

:biglol:
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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Tell us all what it means... ;)

I learned of it myself when a friend told me about this company. Let's play a guessing game. Check out this company's name and the description for one of their products and see if you can guess what a bawbag is:

Bawbags Boxer Shorts and Underwear!
Technical Wicking Active Technology hahaha
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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I will say this, not to excuse Epstein, there has always been this thing between those with doctorates in education.

My boss has her PhD in education. My godmother has her EdD in education. Ironically, both were obtained from UNO. My boss will go to her grave never recognizing my godmother, or anyone else with an EdD, as "Dr." I would imagine that will include Jill Biden.

Craziest argument I've ever seen between intellectuals.

:biglol:
All over a Philosophical difference? ;)
 

Lapaz

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So sick of the Trump Party taking any and every opinion that is the latest hot take to attempt to diminish the Biden administration's legitimacy. It will be so nice once Biden is inaugurated for these crackpot's to be muted.
You’re naive if you think the inauguration will mute the right. They will continue to be obnoxious.
 

insidejob

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You’re naive if you think the inauguration will mute the right. They will continue to be obnoxious.
As long as they're marginalized I really think they'll run out of oxygen over the next four years when Trump becomes a sideshow again and doesn't have power over elected officials. The only reason he has so much support now is because all of these people who've felt like they were invisible before felt like they had some kind of power by voting for Trump and bring on the "winning team." The farther we get from his last day in office the quieter his megaphone will get. Even after he has Trump TV and hires all of the farthest right crackpots to be on air 24 hours a day, people will get bored with his shtick.

At least that's my hope.
 

zztop

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Saint by the Bay

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This will come as no surprise

But where was ol' tuck during the past 4 years when trump could hardly read from a teleprompter
This is their normal tactic. The Republican's communication strategy can be summed up as "I know you are, but what am I?"
  • The term fake news was started to delineate mostly rightwing completely made up stories on the Internet. Trump, who believes those stories, stole the phrase.
  • Trump, arguably the most corrupt President in history, painted Hillary as "crooked" and tried to paint Biden as corrupt.
  • The Republicans, who supported a man that bragged about sexually assaulting women, tried to paint Biden as a pedophile and sexual predator.
  • Republicans, who have tried over 40 times to kill the ACA, claim Democrats want to take away your insurance.
I could go on, and on, and on. When you only have 2 policy positions (pro-life and lower taxes) you have to fill the messaging void. They apparently fill it by looking in the mirror then accusing Democrats of being whatever they see.
 
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wardorican

wardorican

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As long as they're marginalized I really think they'll run out of oxygen over the next four years when Trump becomes a sideshow again and doesn't have power over elected officials. The only reason he has so much support now is because all of these people who've felt like they were invisible before felt like they had some kind of power by voting for Trump and bring on the "winning team." The farther we get from his last day in office the quieter his megaphone will get. Even after he has Trump TV and hires all of the farthest right crackpots to be on air 24 hours a day, people will get bored with his shtick.

At least that's my hope.
Being marginalized is their greatest hits album. What they couldn't do was handle being in power. They had no plan for most things.
 

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