DEAN PHILLIPS is challenging Pres. Biden (1 Viewer)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

US Rep. (D from MN) DEAN PHILLIPS is challenging President Biden to represent the Democratic Party for President.
I only discovered this today (1/20/2024)
He is wealthy and expects to stay in the race even if it appears hopeless...because Biden is in his 80s and "ya never what could happen"
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U.S. Representative Dean Phillips

U.S. Representative Dean Phillips Proudly Serving the 3rd District of Minnesota

phillips.house.gov

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1) What do Democratic posters on madaboutpolitics think of him? Please consider separating your thoughts about him as a D congressman from your thoughts about his decision to challenge Biden. I'd enjoy it if you answered both...yet separately. Just a request that you naturally can ignore if you wish.
2) I anticipate that many will state that he is wasting his time, yet could his "waste of time candidacy" never the less harm Biden politically?

 

[MT15]

Experience

That is what is called anecdotal evidence. It’s not very convincing in this type of discussion.

 

[samiam5211]

Well, you are holding an immutable trait against a person. Rather than judging them on ability and performance. It is what it is. I don’t know what else to tell you about it.

Everyone gets old.

Putting an upper age limit on a job, doesn't prevent anyone from having an opportunity to have that job.

We have a lower limit on President.

There are tons of jobs that have upper age limits, and it doesn't attempt to account for the differences of abilities for people. It is simply a cut off that applies to everyone regardless of ability.

 

[samiam5211]

That is what is called anecdotal evidence. It’s not very convincing in this type of discussion.

yea, i'm not really concerned about convincing anyone.

 

[MT15]

Everyone gets old.

Putting an upper age limit on a job, doesn't prevent anyone from having an opportunity to have that job.

We have a lower limit on President.

There are tons of jobs that have upper age limits, and it doesn't attempt to account for the differences of abilities for people. It is simply a cut off that applies to everyone regardless of ability.

I agree with this somewhat. But I don’t think we should widen the number of jobs that have age limits. There are tons of people who are very capable later in life. Unless there’s a really good reason for it and I don’t see President as a job where there is a good reason for an age cutoff.

 

[MT15]

yea, i'm not really concerned about convincing anyone.

Are you concerned about being incorrect in your assumptions?

 

[samiam5211]

Are you concerned about being incorrect in your assumptions?

No.

My assumptions on this don't impact anything in a meaningful way.

 

[MT15]

No.

My assumptions on this don't impact anything in a meaningful way.

Well, I worry about your health, though. You seem to feel hopeless. That can’t be good for you, and while I am concerned about MAGA, I try to remind myself that, in general, they are losing elections in lots of places. GOP turnout in Iowa was dismal, and it wasn’t all because it was cold. Dem turnout in NH was way up. The GOP has underperformed in every national election since 2016, really, while Dems have exceeded expectations. The trend is reassuring.

 

[zztop]

yes, it is like a virus, and we don't have it under control. There are more MAGA today, that there have ever been.

It will continue to spread, and eventually we will have something similar develop on the other side that is seen as a way to combat it.

I personally think we've already hit 'peak' MAGA. Other than a handful of exceptions, the republicans that were not in line have either retired, or got voted out by MAGA people. So they are pretty much saturated at this moment of time. I think in time it dissipates - which might take a decade +

 

[LA - L.A.]

Everyone gets old.

Putting an upper age limit on a job, doesn't prevent anyone from having an opportunity to have that job.

It absolutely prevents everyone above that arbitrary and prejudicial upper age limit from having the opportunity of having that job. How can you not see that? I mean it's a self-proving objective fact.

We have a lower limit on President.

Do you know why? Maybe we shouldn't have it.

There are tons of jobs that have upper age limits, and it doesn't attempt to account for the differences of abilities for people. It is simply a cut off that applies to everyone regardless of ability.

Like I said age discrimination, especially older age discrimination, is the most rampant and unabashedly accepted form of discrimination. That doesn't make in any less prejudicial discrimination.

There was a time when everyone was allowed to own black slaves. It didn't matter what abilities any of those black slaves had. It was simply the skin color of choice for slaves for everyone to own, regardless of each individual slaves ability.

Does that mean slavery was okay when everyone could do it and it was equally applied to all black people without taking their individual abilities into account?

I'm not trying to convince Samiam5211 of anything. He's already said his mind is completely closed on the subject. I am trying to convince everyone else that age prejudice and discrimination is no more acceptable than is prejudice and discrimination based on other traits. It's all bad and we should strive to stop doing any and all of it.

 

[Dragon]

yes, it is like a virus, and we don't have it under control. There are more MAGA today, that there have ever been.

It will continue to spread, and eventually we will have something similar develop on the other side that is seen as a way to combat it.

The country will then just have two viruses that are spreading, and it will kill us.

It is great to have freedom, as long as you have peace. Without peace, freedom is useless.

I would say it is the other way round - There is no freedom if you aren't willing to fight for it. If you want peace regardless of the price then freedom is lost

 

[samiam5211]

I would say it is the other way round - There is no freedom if you aren't willing to fight for it. If you want peace regardless of the price then freedom is lost

Peace is more important than freedom.

Having both peace and freedom is the only thing we know.

 

[samiam5211]

It absolutely prevents everyone above that arbitrary and prejudicial upper age limit from having the opportunity of having that job. How can you not see that? I mean it's a self-proving objective fact.


Do you know why? Maybe we shouldn't have it.


Like I said age discrimination, especially older age discrimination, is the most rampant and unabashedly accepted form of discrimination. That doesn't make in any less prejudicial discrimination.

There was a time when everyone was allowed to own black slaves. It didn't matter what abilities any of those black slaves had. It was simply the skin color of choice for slaves for everyone to own, regardless of each individual slaves ability.

Does that mean slavery was okay when everyone could do it and it was equally applied to all black people without taking their individual abilities into account?

I'm not trying to convince Samiam5211 of anything. He's already said his mind is completely closed on the subject. I am trying to convince everyone else that age prejudice and discrimination is no more acceptable than is prejudice and discrimination based on other traits. It's all bad and we should strive to stop doing any and all of it.

I haven't once claimed that it's not prejudicial discrimination. It absolutely is.

If we put an upper limit of 70 on the presidency, every single US citizen would still have the opportunity to run for president during their lifetimes. It wouldn't exclude anyone.

 

[MT15]

Peace is more important than freedom.

Having both peace and freedom is the only thing we know.

You only say that because you don’t know what it’s like to not have freedom, IMO.

 

[samiam5211]

You only say that because you don’t know what it’s like to not have freedom, IMO.

I would rather live in China that Eastern Ukraine right now.

 

[MT15]

I would rather live in China that Eastern Ukraine right now.

When people are denied their freedom, they seem to be willing to undergo great hardships to get it back. Easier to protect it once you have it, though that sometimes requires great hardships as well. The people of Ukraine understand that, they have tasted freedom. They don’t want to give it up.

 

[Dragon]

My maternal grandfather spend 2 years in a german KZ camp because he chose to fight for freedom - not with guns but with words. He paid a very high price for that fight - he survived but as a human being he was broken. He had a very hard time being around other people prefering solitude or only having a few people around. But he never even for one second regrettet his actions!

I hope that if I am ever put to the test, that I could be even half as brave as him

 

[samiam5211]

When people are denied their freedom, they seem to be willing to undergo great hardships to get it back. Easier to protect it once you have it, though that sometimes requires great hardships as well. The people of Ukraine understand that, they have tasted freedom. They don’t want to give it up.

Eventually they are.

People living through a civil war often end up putting peace over freedom though.

We will have a J6 type event every election going forward. It will get worse each time, until eventually people decide having elections aren't worth it.

It may not get to that point in our lifetime, but 2016 and J6 are not just blips. It is a trend, and I don't see anything happening anytime soon to counteract that trend.

After 2020, i had a sigh of relief, but I was naive.

 

[MT15]

We will have a J6 type event every election going forward.

What makes you think that? I mean you can choose to think this way if you want, but there isn’t any reason to think that way that I can tell.