Colin Powell (2 Viewers)

[el caliente]

While certainly it’s not proper to speak ill of the dead, Powell had an impressive career, and IMHO is the closest thing this era has had to Alexander Hamilton (debate that among yourselves).

As great a man as he was, some people couldn’t stop taking pot shots at him even on the day of his death.

 

[Paul]

Possibly, but Cubans are given a huge safety net when they arrive in the US that others do not have.

Cubans may be awesome, but there isn't any doubt that the safety net also helps them excel ahead of other immigrant groups.

I believe that we should give all immigrant groups access to those same benefits.

Samiam:

Puerto Ricans are 100% American citizens by birth with a whole lot more advantages and yet the Cubans achieve more. You are leaving out the fact that from a cultural standpoint the Cubans seem to find a way to make it work. Latin America is not a monolith.

It is all about that "je ne sais quoi" (something) that some groups have.

 

[samiam5211]

Samiam:

Puerto Ricans are 100% American citizens by birth with a whole lot more advantages and yet the Cubans achieve more. You are leaving out the fact that from a cultural standpoint the Cubans seem to find a way to make it work. Latin America is not a monolith.

It is all about that "je ne sais quoi" (something) that some groups have.

Do you have any evidence that supports your claim that Cubans achieve more than Puerto Ricans?

Do you know what percentage of Cubans receive some form of public assistance?

 

[Paul]

Do you have any evidence that supports your claim that Cubans achieve more than Puerto Ricans?

Do you know what percentage of Cubans receive some form of public assistance?

Cuban Americans average 56K
State side Puerto Ricans 36k

List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[J-DONK]

I was talking about the Man he was and why so many chose to recognize his accomplishments and his patriotism, not the caricature that those extremist on both sides choose to focus on. You claimed his actions as SoS were "willful", leaving no room for him to be deceived by bad intel. Even then, after his UN speech, he advocated for diplomacy in lieu of invasion but he would support the POTUS decision.


If that's what you got out of what I said, that's on you, not me.

I feel like I'm talking to people who willfully ignore facts, and history. It's not a "caricature" to look at his history with the truth, and conscience as troubling. It starts with his My Lai investigation, continues into Panama, and ends in 2003 with that horrible speech. I will repeat again, he had serious doubts about the invasion, he knew it was wrong. He may have been duped on some level, but he knew it wasn't the right choice. That's from the man himself. It's not "extremist" to look at his record and conclude he is not a figure worth celebrating.

Even then, after his UN speech, he advocated for diplomacy in lieu of invasion but he would support the POTUS decision.

No, the entire point of the speech was to go to war. Would you like sources? I can even point to studies on polling data that showed a huge jump in support for the war after he gave the speech. Stop making crap up.

 

[el caliente]

Possibly, but Cubans are given a huge safety net when they arrive in the US that others do not have.

Cubans may be awesome, but there isn't any doubt that the safety net also helps them excel ahead of other immigrant groups.

I believe that we should give all immigrant groups access to those same benefits.

I agree, I believe all immigrants should be offered the same access to benefits (as long as they are proving not to be a burden of the state).

That said, is there any research on the ROI derived from benefits Cubans receive compared to immigrants from other parts of LA (or the world)?

 

[MT15]

How would one measure ROI in this case?

 

[el caliente]

How would one measure ROI in this case?

Great question. Perhaps you see their intakes and outflows (how much did they use, how much did they pay out in taxes). I am sure there is something out there that lays out that information or something.

 

[MT15]

What if the actual immigrants never made all that much money, because they cleaned houses and took in laundry, but their children or their grandchildren earned advanced degrees and became research scientists, business owners, healthcare department supervisors and teachers/school administrators?

Because that’s my family’s story. My grandmother and father came here when he was about 8 years old and those are the professions of her grandchildren. Yet, if you had looked at the taxes my grandmother paid, they didn’t amount to much. I think the US did okay by letting her in, though, lol.

 

[el caliente]

What if the actual immigrants never made all that much money, because they cleaned houses and took in laundry, but their children or their grandchildren earned advanced degrees and became research scientists, business owners, healthcare department supervisors and teachers/school administrators?

Because that’s my family’s story. My grandmother and father came here when he was about 8 years old and those are the professions of her grandchildren. Yet, if you had looked at the taxes my grandmother paid, they didn’t amount to much. I think the US did okay by letting her in, though, lol.

I’m the son of immigrants and I grew up among the children of immigrants (Latin American, Caribbean, Asian). I get it, immigrants add more value than they take away.

My comment was directed at the poster who said Cubans get a leg up on other immigrants. While that’s true (Cubans arrive here and are eligible for many social safety nets), how many Cubans are using those benefits (my family didn’t, and we don’t come from jeans)? Illegal immigrants are able to utilize social services (right or…right), but it’s not easily quantified (see census problems).

I’m just wondering, can we really make claims such as “x benefits from social services more than y” without actual data behind those claims?

 

[Paul]

I’m the son of immigrants and I grew up among the children of immigrants (Latin American, Caribbean, Asian). I get it, immigrants add more value than they take away.

My comment was directed at the poster who said Cubans get a leg up on other immigrants. While that’s true (Cubans arrive here and are eligible for many social safety nets), how many Cubans are using those benefits (my family didn’t, and we don’t come from jeans)? Illegal immigrants are able to utilize social services (right or…right), but it’s not easily quantified (see census problems).

I’m just wondering, can we really make claims such as “x benefits from social services more than y” without actual data behind those claims?

Immigrants work harder as they are not used to the concept of the state providing everything. Some of those that have been in America for generations fall in love with the idea that the state should provide and eventually lose the drive to succeed.

Immigrants do it better, but we must have balance. Admitting too many at once from the same region is like transplanting a nation to another nation. This causes lack of assimilation and no need to learn English. It is best to admit many from all parts of the world so there is no transplant of one nation to another.

Some may say there is nothing wrong with little Italy or Little Korea. That is fine as long as the numbers are not huge. Everybody likes foreign food, I get it.

Immigration provides an excellent opportunity to admit quality people into the USA. By the same token natural birth in the USA cannot screen for undesirable citizens.

It is no accident that the top earners in America are the immigrants from India.