Civil War 2? (2 Viewers)

Users who are viewing this thread

    Optimus Prime

    Well-known member
    Joined
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages
    11,827
    Reaction score
    15,607
    Age
    48
    Location
    Washington DC Metro
    Online
    Very sobering article
    ================
    If you know people still in denial about the crisis of American democracy, kindly remove their heads from the sand long enough to receive this message: A startling new finding by one of the nation’s top authorities on foreign civil wars says we are on the cusp of our own.

    Barbara F. Walter, a political science professorat the University of California at San Diego, serves on a CIA advisory panel called the Political Instability Task Force that monitors countries around the world and predicts which of them are most at risk of deteriorating into violence.

    By law, the task force can’t assess what’s happening within the United States, but Walter, a longtime friend who has spent her career studying conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Rwanda, Angola, Nicaragua and elsewhere, applied the predictive techniques herself to this country.

    Her bottom line: “We are closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe.” She lays out the argument in detail in her must-read book, “How Civil Wars Start,” out in January. “No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war,” she writes.

    But, “if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America — the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or the Ivory Coast or Venezuela — you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely.

    And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”

    Indeed, the United States has already gone through what the CIA identifies as the first two phases of insurgency — the “pre-insurgency” and “incipient conflict” phases — and only time will tell whether the final phase, “open insurgency,” began with the sacking of the Capitol by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6.

    Things deteriorated so dramatically under Trump, in fact, that the United States no longer technically qualifies as a democracy. Citing the Center for Systemic Peace’s “Polity” data set — the one the CIA task force has found to be most helpful in predicting instability and violence — Walter writes that the United States is now an “anocracy,” somewhere between a democracy and an autocratic state.

    U.S. democracy had received the Polity index’s top score of 10, or close to it, for much of its history. But in the five years of the Trump era, it tumbled precipitously into the anocracy zone; by the end of his presidency, the U.S. score had fallen to a 5, making the country a partial democracy for the first time since 1800.

    “We are no longer the world’s oldest continuous democracy,” Walter writes. “That honor is now held by Switzerland, followed by New Zealand, and then Canada. We are no longer a peer to nations like Canada, Costa Rica, and Japan, which are all rated a +10 on the Polity index.”…….

    Others have reached similar findings. The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month.

    “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said.

    And a new survey by the academic consortium Bright Line Watch found that 17 percent of those who identify strongly as Republicans support the use of violence to restore Trump to power, and 39 percent favor doing everything possible to prevent Democrats from governing effectively……



     
    Might wanna tell your fellow Republicans this bit of news, because they haven't heard it yet.



    Because conservatives love to talk on the phone to strangers and explain their voting strategy that could make them and or their business/job subject to left wing hit jobs. Sure. Incase you have not noticed, the polls rarely get the right voting projection correct or even close.
     
    Because conservatives love to talk on the phone to strangers and explain their voting strategy that could make them and or their business/job subject to left wing hit jobs. Sure. Incase you have not noticed, the polls rarely get the right voting projection correct or even close.

    You and reality really aren't on speaking terms, are you?
     
    You and reality really aren't on speaking terms, are you?
    not with your reality, no.

    You are saying polls are accurate and you trust them? Funny how that is not the case when I post a poll that doesn't reflect too favorably on your side, but yeah, this drive by response is expected.
     
    not with your reality, no.

    I am well aware that you're a "multiple realities" kinda guy, given your claims. There's reality, where we all interact, and then there's whatever the heck you espouse.

    You are saying polls are accurate and you trust them? Funny how that is not the case when I post a poll that doesn't reflect too favorably on your side, but yeah, this drive by response is expected.

    I think polls are a good barometer. None of them are perfect, hence the whole "margin of error" thing.
     
    I don't deny there are those that love Trump. There are those that love Hillary. As I have explained before, MAGA is not Trump. Those two things are seperateable. That being said, would I vote for Trump over any D at this point. Yes. All the time, but that says more about the wacky state of the DNC than about Trump.
    You say that as if 'MAGA' has much in the way of any redeeming qualities. It doesn't. It's low-hanging fruit to those all too willing to sign on to meaningless platitudes like anti-wokeness, America First, etc. As far as you voting for Trump over any D... well, thanks for proving my point about your skewed views of reality.

    Do you see anyone trying to convince kids that they can become Angles by untested drugs and non reversible medical procedures to put wings on their backs? Do you see the public educational system fighting to have pedo priests come for story hour? I think that is indicative of the current state of the DNC and that is one of the many reasons the DNC is losing voters especially in minorities.
    What does that have to do with undermining faith in the integrity of elections which is what I said was the greater danger/issue?
     
    You say that as if 'MAGA' has much in the way of any redeeming qualities. It doesn't. It's low-hanging fruit to those all too willing to sign on to meaningless platitudes like anti-wokeness, America First, etc. As far as you voting for Trump over any D... well, thanks for proving my point about your skewed views of reality.


    What does that have to do with undermining faith in the integrity of elections which is what I said was the greater danger/issue?
    Don't forget that those that believe in MAGA are also the deplorables but more importantly, the uneducated that didn't go to college. Am I right?
    The Dems are now the party of elites like it or not.

    Thinking women can become men is no more objectively absurd than a belief in angels. In any event, neither of the latter is as detrimental to this country than the current election lies embraced by the right writ large.
    You brought it up. I was just stating my position that teaching children about angles vs gender theory has direct consequences. One might cause a child to pray and one might cause a child to want to chop off their breasts. I know you think one is worse but I hold the opposite view.
    I do think that is more important than either side thinking they got cheated in an election.
     
    Don't forget that those that believe in MAGA are also the deplorables but more importantly, the uneducated that didn't go to college. Am I right?
    The Dems are now the party of elites like it or not
    Your new savior, DeSantis, is an elite, don’t kid yourself. He’s just doing the Trump shtick where he pretends to champion the common folk, but it just couldn’t be more hypocritical. It’s all for show to secure your vote.

    Just take a look at how he has steered state money into firms he has connections with. How he spent state taxpayer money on his migrant stunt with a firm that is one of his donors and didn’t care that they were charging an exorbitant amount per person.

    That Rs claim to be for the working class is a huge grift. They’re for themselves, they reward each other and they don’t care a bit about the middle class. You shouldn’t delude yourself that any R is any better for your situation than the Ds. A really strong argument can be made that D fiscal policies will serve the middle class and working class better than R fiscal policies.

    The second part of the grift is the culture war nonsense that you have fallen for hook, line and sinker.
     
    The last 6 years have shown us that the elites should be the ones running the country.
    They are running the country and it is going so smoothly, am I correct? We are on the verge of nuclear war/race war/civil war but yeah, they are doing a great job and they have our concerns at heart. LOL
     
    They are running the country and it is going so smoothly, am I correct? We are on the verge of nuclear war/race war/civil war but yeah, they are doing a great job and they have our concerns at heart. LOL

    This is the part about objective reality I was talking about.

    In what fantasy land have Dems been running the country since 2016?

    Reps had it all their way the first two years of Trump and all they accomplished was tax cuts for the rich.
    (Oh, and a narrowly defeated attempt to nuke the healthcare industry)
    They own SCOTUS, have had either a Senate majority or enough pull to filibuster *everything* along with the White House for four of those six years.
    So the ills you describe are due to the nation being 2/3 run by Republicans.
    Blaming the current state of affairs on Democrats is like blaming the copilot for a plane crash.
     
    Don't forget that those that believe in MAGA are also the deplorables but more importantly, the uneducated that didn't go to college. Am I right?
    The Dems are now the party of elites like it or not.
    Lack of a college education is irrelevant. It is more about gullibility and being under-informed. The MAGA platform is on par with Hulkamania in the 80s: "SAY YOUR PRAYERS AND EAT YOUR VITAMINS, BROTHER!" "U-S-A, U-S-A." MAGA-ites are so predictable I could probably run for Congress and just meme my way to victory saying exactly what they want to hear without knowing much about anything else.

    You brought it up. I was just stating my position that teaching children about angles vs gender theory has direct consequences. One might cause a child to pray and one might cause a child to want to chop off their breasts. I know you think one is worse but I hold the opposite view.
    I do think that is more important than either side thinking they got cheated in an election.
    I said neither were more pressing than disinformation on election integrity. You choose to move the goalposts to compare the two things I quickly dismissed. And that you think the whole forced transgenderism thing -- which you massively exaggerate -- is more important than a stable democracy just reinforces my conclusion that you are a functional authoritarian. It's a shame you are not Muslim because there are countries in the Middle East you would be perfectly happy in given the theocratic regimes that control them.
     
    Last edited:
    They are running the country and it is going so smoothly, am I correct? We are on the verge of nuclear war/race war/civil war but yeah, they are doing a great job and they have our concerns at heart. LOL

    Yea, when things are bad we don’t need people like MTG in the decision making process at all.
     
    Lack of a college education is irrelevant. It is more about gullibility and being under-informed. The MAGA platform is on par with Hulkamania in the 80s: "SAY YOUR PRAYERS AND EAT YOUR VITAMINS, BROTHER!" "U-S-A, U-S-A." MAGA-ites are so predictable I could probably run for Congress and just meme my way to victory saying exactly what they want to hear without knowing much about anything else.


    I said neither were more pressing than disinformation on election integrity. You choose to move the goalposts to compare the two things I quickly dismissed. And that you think the whole forced transgenderism thing -- which you massively exaggerate -- is more important than a stable democracy just reinforces my conclusion that you are a functional authoritarian. It's a shame you are not Muslim because there are countries in the Middle East you would be perfectly happy in given the theocratic regimes that control them.
    Yeah, Sure.
    You really boil down the MAGA crowd down by intelligence by the way.

    I was pointing out that the side that is worried about election integrity and also stage a huge production of a hearing for 1.6 is the same party that believes men dressed in woman face should be allowed in the female bathroom with teen girls. Comparison of values is important. That is also why I chose to fight in the filth of culture war and you just chose to look down on anyone you disagree with as less intelligent. That is fine and expected.
    And yes, I am fully aware the far right has some crazy beliefs as well.
    But why move and change my religion when my goal is to beat you guys to the punch and form a theocratic regime here in the States! ;)
     
    Yeah, Sure.
    You really boil down the MAGA crowd down by intelligence by the way.
    You can rephrase my words as much as you want but it doesn't make them my words. Many intelligent people are naive and/or quick to embrace outlandish nonsense if it justifies their world views.

    I was pointing out that the side that is worried about election integrity and also stage a huge production of a hearing for 1.6 is the same party that believes men dressed in woman face should be allowed in the female bathroom with teen girls. Comparison of values is important. That is also why I chose to fight in the filth of culture war and you just chose to look down on anyone you disagree with as less intelligent. That is fine and expected.
    And yes, I am fully aware the far right has some crazy beliefs as well.
    But why move and change my religion when my goal is to beat you guys to the punch and form a theocratic regime here in the States! ;)
    It's simply a false assertion to think all Democrats support that position. Yet 90% of the GOP has its lips firmly pressed to Trump's butt. And I'm glad you're finally being honest with yourself. You're all too consumed with fringe issues after decades of indoctrination. You're not less intelligent than me, you are just intellectually dishonest.
     
    An anguished question from a Trump supporter: "Why do liberals think Trump supporters are stupid?"
    The serious answer: Here’s what we really think about Trump supporters - the rich, the poor, the malignant and the innocently well-meaning, the ones who think and the ones who don't...
    That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine."
    That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay."
    That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem."
    That when he made up stories about seeing muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue."
    That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you chirped, "He sure knows me."
    That when you heard him illustrate his own character by telling that cute story about the elderly guest bleeding on the floor at his country club, the story about how he turned his back and how it was all an imposition on him, you said, "That's cool!"
    That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw.
    That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?"
    That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense."
    That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!"
    That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!"
    That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!"
    That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be."
    That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!"
    That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!"
    That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense."
    That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!"
    That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids. has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “well, ok then.”
    That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise.
    What you don't get, Trump supporters in 2022, is that succumbing to frustration and thinking of you as stupid may be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.
    Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are *less* flattering.
    ***
    Original post by Adam-Troy Castro.
     
    An anguished question from a Trump supporter: "Why do liberals think Trump supporters are stupid?"
    The serious answer: Here’s what we really think about Trump supporters - the rich, the poor, the malignant and the innocently well-meaning, the ones who think and the ones who don't...
    That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine."
    That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay."
    That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem."
    That when he made up stories about seeing muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue."
    That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you chirped, "He sure knows me."
    That when you heard him illustrate his own character by telling that cute story about the elderly guest bleeding on the floor at his country club, the story about how he turned his back and how it was all an imposition on him, you said, "That's cool!"
    That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw.
    That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?"
    That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense."
    That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!"
    That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!"
    That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!"
    That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be."
    That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!"
    That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!"
    That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense."
    That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!"
    That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids. has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “well, ok then.”
    That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise.
    What you don't get, Trump supporters in 2022, is that succumbing to frustration and thinking of you as stupid may be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.
    Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are *less* flattering.
    ***
    Original post by Adam-Troy Castro.

    "You're not stupid, you're mean."
     
    You can rephrase my words as much as you want but it doesn't make them my words. Many intelligent people are naive and/or quick to embrace outlandish nonsense if it justifies their world views.


    It's simply a false assertion to think all Democrats support that position. Yet 90% of the GOP has its lips firmly pressed to Trump's butt. And I'm glad you're finally being honest with yourself. You're all too consumed with fringe issues after decades of indoctrination. You're not less intelligent than me, you are just intellectually dishonest.
    I know, I watched that during covid. Crazy what people beleive when they are told by the 'experts'.

    It is a false assertion on my part but you can correctly assert it on your part? LOL. I took you to be much more intelligent than that.
     

    Create an account or login to comment

    You must be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create account

    Create an account on our community. It's easy!

    Log in

    Already have an account? Log in here.

    General News Feed

    Fact Checkers News Feed

    Back
    Top Bottom