Civil War 2? (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Very sobering article
    ================
    If you know people still in denial about the crisis of American democracy, kindly remove their heads from the sand long enough to receive this message: A startling new finding by one of the nation’s top authorities on foreign civil wars says we are on the cusp of our own.

    Barbara F. Walter, a political science professorat the University of California at San Diego, serves on a CIA advisory panel called the Political Instability Task Force that monitors countries around the world and predicts which of them are most at risk of deteriorating into violence.

    By law, the task force can’t assess what’s happening within the United States, but Walter, a longtime friend who has spent her career studying conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Rwanda, Angola, Nicaragua and elsewhere, applied the predictive techniques herself to this country.

    Her bottom line: “We are closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe.” She lays out the argument in detail in her must-read book, “How Civil Wars Start,” out in January. “No one wants to believe that their beloved democracy is in decline, or headed toward war,” she writes.

    But, “if you were an analyst in a foreign country looking at events in America — the same way you’d look at events in Ukraine or the Ivory Coast or Venezuela — you would go down a checklist, assessing each of the conditions that make civil war likely.

    And what you would find is that the United States, a democracy founded more than two centuries ago, has entered very dangerous territory.”

    Indeed, the United States has already gone through what the CIA identifies as the first two phases of insurgency — the “pre-insurgency” and “incipient conflict” phases — and only time will tell whether the final phase, “open insurgency,” began with the sacking of the Capitol by Donald Trump supporters on Jan. 6.

    Things deteriorated so dramatically under Trump, in fact, that the United States no longer technically qualifies as a democracy. Citing the Center for Systemic Peace’s “Polity” data set — the one the CIA task force has found to be most helpful in predicting instability and violence — Walter writes that the United States is now an “anocracy,” somewhere between a democracy and an autocratic state.

    U.S. democracy had received the Polity index’s top score of 10, or close to it, for much of its history. But in the five years of the Trump era, it tumbled precipitously into the anocracy zone; by the end of his presidency, the U.S. score had fallen to a 5, making the country a partial democracy for the first time since 1800.

    “We are no longer the world’s oldest continuous democracy,” Walter writes. “That honor is now held by Switzerland, followed by New Zealand, and then Canada. We are no longer a peer to nations like Canada, Costa Rica, and Japan, which are all rated a +10 on the Polity index.”…….

    Others have reached similar findings. The Stockholm-based International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance put the United States on a list of “backsliding democracies” in a report last month.

    “The United States, the bastion of global democracy, fell victim to authoritarian tendencies itself," the report said.

    And a new survey by the academic consortium Bright Line Watch found that 17 percent of those who identify strongly as Republicans support the use of violence to restore Trump to power, and 39 percent favor doing everything possible to prevent Democrats from governing effectively……



     
    When Trump loses and if the election isn’t certified and he is declared the winner by a Republican Congress I could see the West Coast leaving.

    Southern states can’t afford to leave. They need California and can’t survive without it
    Fingers crossed!
     
    Is it really that hard to understand why there is going to be an inevitable civil war? It'll be a class war, people are waking up to the fact many will never own homes. The wealth divide gets worse by day. You have a government on both sides that are completely out of touch with the working class and everyday Americans. You have millions of people who are 1 accident away from bankruptcy despite working full 50+ hr weeks. Low wages, some of the worst worker rights, conditions of any 1st world country. Most jobs offer no benefits and when they do offer benefits they're terrible. Career politicians go into office and make millions of dollars over 3 to 4 decades.

    Back in the day, a Janitor could buy a house, raise a family of 5 on his salary. Today with that same job? You'll barely have enough after rent. This is an unstoppable force colliding into an immoveable object, it's going to happen, the question is only when.
     
    Is it really that hard to understand why there is going to be an inevitable civil war? It'll be a class war, people are waking up to the fact many will never own homes. The wealth divide gets worse by day. You have a government on both sides that are completely out of touch with the working class and everyday Americans. You have millions of people who are 1 accident away from bankruptcy despite working full 50+ hr weeks. Low wages, some of the worst worker rights, conditions of any 1st world country. Most jobs offer no benefits and when they do offer benefits they're terrible. Career politicians go into office and make millions of dollars over 3 to 4 decades.

    Back in the day, a Janitor could buy a house, raise a family of 5 on his salary. Today with that same job? You'll barely have enough after rent. This is an unstoppable force colliding into an immoveable object, it's going to happen, the question is only when.

    Na, it will be a party war in the DNP. It will be an all out fight between progressives, and neoliberals. America is in the middle of a historic labor movement, and nothing from the DNP beyond some token support. It does seem like America is waking up to the fact they don't actually have to put up with inhumane working conditions, and pay. This is bad news for the neoliberal wing of the party.

    I wonder about stuff like, will Obama go full mask off in the future to stop progressives, or save his image? Obama already had to consolidate the entire DNP behind the scenes in the 2020 nomination race to stop the pro-labor candidate. Then there is Tom Perez, he joined a union-busting law firm right after stepping down as DNC chair. He had to immediately quit when he realized his new job was going to sink his chances of every becoming governor in a blue state. He is part of a long list of ex-Obama advisers/staff to be anti-union.

    Democrats are setup for a bloodbath in 2022. It will be interesting to see which of the two major factions take the heaviest losses.
     
    for what it's worth
    ===============

    By 2025, American democracy could collapse, causing extreme domestic political instability, including widespread civil violence. By 2030, if not sooner, the country could be governed by a right-wing dictatorship.

    We mustn’t dismiss these possibilities just because they seem ludicrous or too horrible to imagine. In 2014, the suggestion that Donald Trump would become president would also have struck nearly everyone as absurd. But today we live in a world where the absurd regularly becomes real and the horrible commonplace.

    Leading American academics are now actively addressing the prospect of a fatal weakening of U.S. democracy.

    This past November, more than 150 professors of politics, government, political economy and international relations appealed to Congress to pass the Freedom to Vote Act, which would protect the integrity of US elections but is now stalled in the Senate. This is a moment of “great peril and risk,” they wrote. “Time is ticking away, and midnight is approaching.”

    I’m a scholar of violent conflict. For more than 40 years, I’ve studied and published on the causes of war, social breakdown, revolution, ethnic violence and genocide, and for nearly two decades I led a centre on peace and conflict studies at the University of Toronto.

    Today, as I watch the unfolding crisis in the United States, I see a political and social landscape flashing with warning signals.

    I’m not surprised by what’s happening there – not at all. During my graduate work in the United States in the 1980s, I sometimes listened to Rush Limbaugh, the right-wing radio talk show host and later television personality. I remarked to friends at the time that, with each broadcast, it was if Mr. Limbaugh were wedging the sharp end of a chisel into a faint crack in the moral authority of U.S. political institutions, and then slamming the other end of that chisel with a hammer.

    In the decades since, week after week, year after year, Mr. Limbaugh and his fellow travellers have hammered away – their blows’ power lately amplified through social media and outlets such as Fox News and Newsmax. The cracks have steadily widened, ramified, connected and propagated deeply into America’s once-esteemed institutions, profoundly compromising their structural integrity. The country is becoming increasingly ungovernable, and some experts believe it could descend into civil war.

    How should Canada prepare?...........

     
    Inflammatory/Troll post
    I find it comical that Civil War is being dreamed up by people that don’t know which end of a gun a bullet comes out of, and dudes that sit down to pee. Lol.


    Good luck.
     
    What an idiotic statement. The talk has been coming from the right for over a year. Now that normal people are noticing the insanity and discussing it you want to pose as some sort of He-man online?

    your virtue signaling is wasted on us. You may as well go peddle it elsewhere or just don’t comment if you don’t have anything serious to contribute.
     
    I find it comical that Civil War is being dreamed up by people that don’t know which end of a gun a bullet comes out of, and dudes that sit down to pee. Lol.


    Good luck.
    When I look back in the thread to see the who's who it's all about it I see Farb with his "Fingers crossed" and you saying, "Indeed. Don’t tease me with a good thing."

    So I assume Farb must be the one who doesn't know which end of bullet a gun doesn't come out of... and ... .

    ;)
     
    I find it comical that Civil War is being dreamed up by people that don’t know which end of a gun a bullet comes out of, and dudes that sit down to pee. Lol.


    Good luck.
    Dude, Trump fanbois have been openly frothing at the mouth about a Civil War or just secession of their favorite dark red states from the Union since the 2018 mid-term elections. Now that an article and discussion about the reality of a Civil War's possibility are occurring based on actual scenarios and threats to the democracy experiment's continued existence, it's a bunch of morons who can't shoot a gun (so manly) and have been castrated by liberalism "dreaming it up"?

    Where have you been for the past 3 and 1/2 years?
     
    Dude, Trump fanbois have been openly frothing at the mouth about a Civil War or just secession of their favorite dark red states from the Union since the 2018 mid-term elections. Now that an article and discussion about the reality of a Civil War's possibility are occurring based on actual scenarios and threats to the democracy experiment's continued existence, it's a bunch of morons who can't shoot a gun (so manly) and have been castrated by liberalism "dreaming it up"?

    Where have you been for the past 3 and 1/2 years?

    and the discussion is with people who study, research and are experts in such things worldwide
     
    Dude, Trump fanbois have been openly frothing at the mouth about a Civil War or just secession of their favorite dark red states from the Union since the 2018 mid-term elections. Now that an article and discussion about the reality of a Civil War's possibility are occurring based on actual scenarios and threats to the democracy experiment's continued existence, it's a bunch of morons who can't shoot a gun (so manly) and have been castrated by liberalism "dreaming it up"?

    Where have you been for the past 3 and 1/2 years?
    I have no desire for a civil war, nor do I think the majority of American does either. I think it’s a romanticized notion that is dreamed up by a small group of unbalanced people who are given a microphone because they do the medias work for them.

    Does anyone here honestly want another civil war?
     
    I have no desire for a civil war, nor do I think the majority of American does either. I think it’s a romanticized notion that is dreamed up by a small group of unbalanced people who are given a microphone because they do the medias work for them.

    Does anyone here honestly want another civil war?

    On this site, I don't think anyone does

    And I probably agree that the majority of the country doesn't either

    But there is a segment that does, or at least claim they do

     
    On this site, I don't think anyone does

    And I probably agree that the majority of the country doesn't either

    But there is a segment that does, or at least claim they do

    There are people like Flynn and Bannon that are making a living fomenting the desire for a civil war. They want to tear the country down and rebuild it as some sort of Christian Taliban state.
     
    I have no desire for a civil war, nor do I think the majority of American does either. I think it’s a romanticized notion that is dreamed up by a small group of unbalanced people who are given a microphone because they do the me
    Does anyone here honestly want another civil war?
    No.

    But I'm also not into tolerating nor ceding the least bit of ground to anti-democracy Trumpists. fork them.

    Like I said, not sure what civil war would possibly look like today.. but posting this during my annual hunting trip at my family's camp in Mississippi here.. I'm fairly certain I know the correct end of my gun.
     
    There are people like Flynn and Bannon that are making a living fomenting the desire for a civil war. They want to tear the country down and rebuild it as some sort of Christian Taliban state.

    And it’s possible they don’t even really want it

    They absolutely want the desire and to fan that flame and make tons of smoke

    But maybe that’s all they want, that’s where the money is

    Deep down they might not really want to burn the place down
     
    Just the right wants out of the union?
     
    No.

    But I'm also not into tolerating nor ceding the least bit of ground to anti-democracy Trumpists. fork them.

    Like I said, not sure what civil war would possibly look like today.. but posting this during my annual hunting trip at my family's camp in Mississippi here.. I'm fairly certain I know the correct end of my gun.
    I would agree with this, but obviously replace 'anti-democracy trumpists' to 'the woke alt-left'.

    The left wants one thing and the right wants something else. The way I see it, we have 2 options. Divorce or let the states do the thing they were designed for. IMO, we need to strip the federal government of just about all power over the states. California and Florida would be and are governed completely differently. Let Cali be a test for left political experiments and Florida for right political experiments. Each state can take what they want, modify it or take parts of each.

    To make this happen, we need to take money out of politics, impossible but it should be the #1 priority if everyone wants to see this American experiment work. If you cant take money out, then term limits are a must.

    Pipe dream and not fully thought out by me, just a topic to discuss. Other wise, it will be a divorce, either mutual or very very ugly.
     

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