China's Social Credit System (1 Viewer)

[Dadsdream]

Earlier this week, I watched a PBS show about China's Social Credit System. I thought I had a fair understanding of what was going on, but quickly found out that the reality has far outstripped my imagination and requires significant updating.

In short, with a cell phone app, the Chinese can check the "Social Credit" of anyone within 500 feet and make a determination if they want to do business with them . . . or ban them from getting on public transportation . . . or bar them from buying an airline ticket . . . based not only on personal credit, but failure to pay a fine, or a ticket, or a debt, or even bad ratings given in social media sites.

The system also identifies people who are to be given preferential treatment.
Facial recognition and strategically placed cameras also come into play.

How China's high-tech 'eyes' monitor behavior and dissent

Technology is transforming China, helping improve life in some ways, but also collecting big data. The government is beginning to convert that data and surveillance footage into social credit scores, which critics say can be used to penalize those who criticize the Communist Party. Nick Schifrin...

www.pbs.org

A few things came to mind after I watched the show and looked up the current state of things.

First, George Orwell severely underestimated how far a despotic technological giant like China could go when it comes to controlling people.

Second, Seth McFarland was sounding an alarm with The Orville, Season 1, Episode 7, Mission: Majority Rule.

Third, Revelation 13:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name

 

[Dadsdream]

The latest reports are that the Chinese government has found yet another use for their Social Credit System:

Increasingly it looks like Chinese citizens who are caught concealing coronavirus symptoms will be penalised using the country's social credit system.

According to Chinese tech news site Abacus, Beijing authorities announced that citizens entering the city from overseas who don't disclose symptoms or relevant medical history pertaining to coronavirus will have their social credit score docked.

Chinese citizens who conceal any coronavirus history are being punished using the country's dystopian social credit system

A woman in Beijing being investigated for returning to the city after developing a cough and fever.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[The moose]

Just stop with the China hate.

Right now we need to get along with China. Right now we need supplies, virus data, and all kinds of stuff.

So why don't you do the right thing and not push the China evil bit.


How about that guy Jack Ma.

Just donated tests and all the gear needed to test Africa and has donated a ton to everyone.

He is doing wonders. His money comes from being the the China Amazon.

Oh that is right or Amazon guy is picking up 15% from all the scare.

 

[Dadsdream]

What hate? It's the truth.

Do the right thing? I am. I'm calling China's social credit system evil incarnate. It's exactly what the great Science Fiction writers of the 20th Century warned us about. If this ain't Orwellian, I don't know what is.

As I understand it, in Bejing if people cut across the street instead of going to the crosswalk, somebody takes their picture with a cell phone and reports it, that reduces the person's social credit. It's like having millions of government spies watching everything they do every day.

If the Chinese government says "all is well" and people go on social media and say "no it's not," their social credit gets slammed to the point where they can't even buy a train ticket.

Moreover, they're expanding this social credit system to include foreign businesses and people.

China's social credit system of scoring Chinese citizens on a code of personal conduct moves up a notch as foreign corporations begin to fall under a similar system.

Beginning next year, compliance will be enforced by China's Ministry of Public Security over access to corporate data housed on Chinese servers.

Foreign companies are being advised to reevaluate their data collection processes in light of this new action. The effect could be a further decoupling of US-China tech and trade activities.

"Foreign companies will have to decide whether it is worth the risk to sell or manufacture in China. This new lead could lead to diversification of supply chains or decoupling," said David Jacobson, a global business strategy teacher and executive director of online education at the SMU Cox School of Business as well as a visiting professor at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

Social Credit Scoring In China Extends To Foreign Businesses, Creates New Risks

China is extending its social credit scoring system that has been used on individuals to foreign corporations now, creating new risks and possibly leading to further decoupling.

www.forbes.com

Chinese telecommunications companies implemented mandatory facial recognition scans of anybody who buys a new cell phone.
They have graciously set up cameras and monitors where people can walk up and check their social credit score.

See the picture above? See the guy on the left with the 45 score. Imagine you're the guy next to him with the 21 score. You think he gets treated differently by the people around him or the cops?

This is sick, sick, sick.

Chinese Telecoms Companies Confirm Mandatory Facial Recognition For New Numbers

There are signs that the requirement will eventually be rolled out to include all mobile phone users.

www.rfa.org

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Was wondering when we would hear from you

Are you sure you were watching PBS or was it Black Mirror?

https://k-actus.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/nosedive-netflix.png

 

[Dadsdream]

Was wondering when we would hear from you

Are you sure you were watching PBS or was it Black Mirror?

https://k-actus.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/nosedive-netflix.png

It was PBS. See the link above.

I did watch The Orville, though, as noted.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

i do think it's an interesting topic - while fully recognizing why 'all of a sudden' it pops up on this board now

this is a fairly nuanced (from my POV) take on it...(i will add that if you don't like technology supporting social/sesame credit scores - then don't tacitly support the institutions that have had the same/similar programs in place in this country from jump)

 

[Beach Friends]

i do think it's an interesting topic - while fully recognizing why 'all of a sudden' it pops up on this board now

this is a fairly nuanced (from my POV) take on it...(i will add that if you don't like technology supporting social/sesame credit scores - then don't tacitly support the institutions that have had the same/similar programs in place in this country from jump)

Is that supposed to be a link? If so, it's not working.

 

[Dadsdream]

i do think it's an interesting topic - while fully recognizing why 'all of a sudden' it pops up on this board now

this is a fairly nuanced (from my POV) take on it...(i will add that if you don't like technology supporting social/sesame credit scores - then don't tacitly support the institutions that have had the same/similar programs in place in this country from jump)

I watched a show earlier this week on PBS, like I said.

I never heard of or saw anything about Black Mirror until you mentioned it.

But, I did read 1984 in the 1970s.

 

[Beach Friends]

I watched a show earlier this week on PBS, like I said.

I never heard of it saw anything about Black Mirror until you mentioned it.

But, I did read 1984 in the 1970s.

I think he just meant that it is understandable why we would want to discuss the authoritarian Chinese government now that it has our full attention, considering that the Chinese government is directly responsible for a pandemic that is going to result in a worldwide recession and harm countless humans.

 

[Dadsdream]

I think he just meant that it is understandable why we would want to discuss the authoritarian Chinese government now that it has our full attention, considering that the Chinese government is directly responsible for a pandemic that is going to result in a worldwide recession and harm countless humans.

Hi, BF.
Regardless, it was an interesting PBS show and I was not aware of how far their social credit system had progressed, if you want to call having everybody spying on everybody else and reporting it to the government "progress."

I understand Mark Zuckerburg was working on a similar app for Faceook, until it leaked and he purportedly shelved it.

So, can it happen here? Sure. I am certain it does to some extent, just not so blatantly.

Nice talking with you BF, as always.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Is that supposed to be a link? If so, it's not working.

Not sure why it’s not posting
It’s an article on Medium
Author Y Deville
‘Sesame’ credit is a good search term

 

[Dadsdream]

Eloquent defense of the indefensible.
Still, I never heard of Black Mirror until you posted it.

But I did watch the episode of The Orville where they landed on a planet where everybody took pictures on their cell phones to report misdeeds, then voted to execute the offender.

China already blocks services and travel for debtors, like the British debtors prisons of old, but without the bars. Makes you wonder at what point the Chinese start withholding food, procreation rights, and whatever else they want.

 

[xpuma20x]

I figure this type of system has to be difficult with the "if you have nothing to hide" crowd. If you're part of the side that is well off, pays their bills and so on, it seems like this type of system would be wonderful. I'm curious how it works for someone like me, who purposefully misses a payment or two of student loans, but ends up catching up on it after a month or two of making them call my auto-reject set phone every day. Either way, if my original sarcasm didn't connect, this seems to go beyond the big brother style conspiracy theories we have in the West. It also seems like this would have to be running on 5G already to work properly. Real time facial recognition with a database of over a billion people?

 

[The moose]

Hi Moose,

I saw a program on PBS this week on the topic of China's social credit system.
My knowledge of China's use of this system was woefully out-of-date and I was shocked.
I resolved to post a thread here about it as soon as the program ended.
If the "timing" of this thread bothers you, please by all means, go find another thread.
Please take the personal attacks to the Mud Pit smack board.

Thanks.
Dadsdream

Not a personal attack

Your timing of the crazy China post is exceptionally poor.

Might I suggest find another way to stir your crap.

 

[Dadsdream]

Not a personal attack

Your timing of the crazy China post is exceptionally poor.

Might I suggest find another way to stir your crap.

Hi Moose,
It seemed to me you got pretty personal in your attack on BF. Tone it down, please, we don't want to lose you.
Perhaps you should take the timing issue up with PBS, which aired the program which raised my concern.
You can suggest whatever you wish.
Have a great day!
Dadsdream

 

[Farb]

Now, I am well aware that this is from Barstool sports. But I see alot of Oliver and Comedey Central 'news' so I thought I would post this. This guy lived in China and documented himself living there (actually very entertaining and very informative). He documents his interactions with the local Chinese people and the are wonderful and funny as shirt. They are worth watching, IMO. This is one where he explains this system from what he saw and lived over there. Pretty interesting and not 'hate' or whatever ism people like to use when words fail them.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Yeah, I really don't get the extreme eagerness to shut down a discussion of the very real threats to our security China presents. This is a great wake up call.

NOT A ZERO SUM GAME
We are discussing the problems with the Chinese system (though as the author pointed out, it seems more an issue that a Chinese company is pursuing and that the govt - while still using parts - have scaled back initial efforts)
WHILE
At the same time recognizing that this was first reported in 2014 or so, and are noting the curious timing