Catholicism and Politics - Interesting Segment with Bishop Robert Barron (2 Viewers)

[wardorican]

Start from about 3min in, where I'm linking this. The first bit is about a bible they put out.



First, I found his early discussion on the nature of political debate being mostly a conflict of wills, of experiences, and how that's not helpful. It's the breakdown of real argument.

So, the way past that is to refuse to cooperate in that verbal violence. don't make it will vs will, experience vs experience. Appeal to values in common, e.g. propose various objective values. A few posters are better than others at this, but I see many try. It really does sum up where political talk goes bad, without directly criticizing that.

Later it gets into Catholic teaching, and politics. Somewhat lightly, since the main idea is that they'll never tell you who to vote for, and the truth is, neither party bats 1000 with the church, so both are generally equally valid.

I thought it was an interesting chat.

I've caught a few other chats with him that are good. He makes an interesting point about the Church having a high bar of expectations, but also lavishly gives divine mercy when we fail.

 

[superchuck500]

Jeannie Gaffigan (Jim’s wife) wrote this piece for the US Catholic publication:

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Instead of starting a new thread, I'm just posting this here. As a practicing Catholic, I'm happy to see the Cardinal-designate take this stance.

Washington’s soon-to-be cardinal says he won’t deny Joe Biden Communion

Wilton D. Gregory said he hopes to collaborate where possible while respectfully pointing out where President-elect Joe Biden’s policies diverge from Catholic teaching.

www.americamagazine.org

 

[DaveXA]

Instead of starting a new thread, I'm just posting this here. As a practicing Catholic, I'm happy to see the Cardinal-designate take this stance.

Washington’s soon-to-be cardinal says he won’t deny Joe Biden Communion

Wilton D. Gregory said he hopes to collaborate where possible while respectfully pointing out where President-elect Joe Biden’s policies diverge from Catholic teaching.

www.americamagazine.org

Works for me. Maybe Congress can take notes on how to work together on some real legislation.

 

[SystemShock]

Instead of starting a new thread, I'm just posting this here. As a practicing Catholic, I'm happy to see the Cardinal-designate take this stance.

Washington’s soon-to-be cardinal says he won’t deny Joe Biden Communion

Wilton D. Gregory said he hopes to collaborate where possible while respectfully pointing out where President-elect Joe Biden’s policies diverge from Catholic teaching.

www.americamagazine.org

As a strict State-Church separationist, I didn't want don't want this guy near the White House, much less "working" with Biden.

 

[DaveXA]

As a strict State-Church separationist, I didn't want don't want this guy near the White House, much less "working" with Biden.

Fair point. But every President ever has surrounded himself with advisors, including spiritual. Some weirder than others. But they've all had them to some degree or another. There won't ever be a complete separation.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

As a strict State-Church separationist, I didn't want don't want this guy near the White House, much less "working" with Biden.

I would agree, but the point I was stressing was more from the idea of Biden receiving Communion. There plenty of stories of parishes denying him Communion because of his beliefs on abortion and I always found that disturbing.

 

[SystemShock]

Fair point. But every President ever has surrounded himself with advisors, including spiritual. Some weirder than others. But they've all had them to some degree or another. There won't ever be a complete separation.

... and Biden can do that on his own time, in his own life. But the life of the POTUS is not a private life.

 

[SystemShock]

I would agree, but the point I was stressing was more from the idea of Biden receiving Communion. There plenty of stories of parishes denying him Communion because of his beliefs on abortion and I always found that disturbing.

Well, maybe those high up in the Catholic church should not be allowed Communion for actively hiding child molesters, defusing to return what the stole from the American continent, and spreading doctrines that are dangerous to the health of society in general.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Well, maybe those high up in the Catholic church should not be allowed Communion for actively hiding child molesters, defusing to return what the stole from the American continent, and spreading doctrines that are dangerous to the health of society in general.

The church has apologized and acted on plenty of that (with still room to go). Sorry it's not up to your expectation. But hey, at this point, which religion is?

 

[SystemShock]

The church has apologized and acted on plenty of that (with still room to go). Sorry it's not up to your expectation. But hey, at this point, which religion is?

Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism....

And I don't care about the apologies for aiding and abetting child molesters, or their apologies for pillaging the new continent; when they give back what they forking stole, then maybe...

 

[coldseat]

Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism....

And I don't care about the apologies for aiding and abetting child molesters, or their apologies for pillaging the new continent; when they give back what they forking stole, then maybe...

I don't see that as likely. I mean, Native Americans have been asking for the land that was stolen from them for centuries, but I don't see the United States government or American citizens lining up to give back their land to Native Americans. I'm not sure why the church is going to do that with gold or to who they would give it. Likewise, black people in the US have been asking for reparations for their stolen work and freedom and people aren't lining up to do that either.

In general, we don't usually see reparations from current institutions for legitimate claims of pillaging and miscarriages of justice from the past.

 

[SystemShock]

I don't see that as likely. I mean, Native Americans have been asking for the land that was stolen from them for centuries, but I don't see the United States government or American citizens lining up to give back their land to Native Americans. I'm not sure why the church is going to do that with gold or to who they would give it. Likewise, black people in the US have been asking for reparations for their stolen work and freedom and people aren't lining up to do that either.

In general, we don't usually see reparations from current institutions for legitimate claims of pillaging and miscarriages of justice from the past.

I am not even talking about gold. The Vatican refuses to return Aztec and Maya codices to México. Those belong to México, they stole them. But those damned thieves don't want to give them back.

 

[DaveXA]

I am not even talking about gold. The Vatican refuses to return Aztec and Maya codices to México. Those belong to México, they stole them. But those damned thieves don't want to give them back.

I'm not familiar with this. You have sources I can read on this?

 

[LA - L.A.]

I am not even talking about gold. The Vatican refuses to return Aztec and Maya codices to México. Those belong to México, they stole them. But those damned thieves don't want to give them back.

It's likely they don't want to give them back, because they counter the Western based narrative of the history of the original American civilizations. The Vatican is the most knowledge stealing and suppressing organization humanity has ever known.

 

[DaveXA]

It's likely they don't want to give them back, because they counter the Western based narrative of the history of the original American civilizations. The Vatican is the most knowledge stealing and suppressing organization humanity has ever known.

That seems like an over the top, broad generalization to make about one religion. This isn't a religion thread and I'm not interested in getting too much into it, but the statement is uncalled for here.

 

[LA - L.A.]

That seems like an over the top, broad generalization to make about one religion. This isn't a religion thread and I'm not interested in getting too much into it, but the statement is uncalled for here.

I didn't say anything about any religion, but your objection is noted.

My counter response, the Dark Ages. There are many other examples of the Vatican stealing records of knowledge and either destroying them or hiding them in Vatican City.

 

[DaveXA]

I didn't say anything about any religion, but your objection is noted.

My counter response, the Dark Ages. There are many other examples of the Vatican stealing records of knowledge and either destroying them or hiding them in Vatican City.

Well, I'd say that when referring to the Vatican, that's essentially the heart of the Catholic Church. It's splitting hairs to say you're not talking about the Church when referencing the Vatican.

Anyway, I forgot this was a Catholic related discussion being that Biden himself is Catholic and all that. I've been jumping in and out of a bunch of threads today.

Carry on.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Well, I'd say that when referring to the Vatican, that's essentially the heart of the Catholic Church. It's splitting hairs to say you're not talking about the Church when referencing the Vatican.

Anyway, I forgot this was a Catholic related discussion being that Biden himself is Catholic and all that. I've been jumping in and out of a bunch of threads today.

Carry on.

The Vatican is part of the Catholic church, but it is not synonymous with the religion of Catholicism. It is the governmental and political wing of the Catholic church. To criticize the Vatican is not a criticism of the religion of Catholicism.

Was planning on carrying as wanted.