Catholicism and Politics - Interesting Segment with Bishop Robert Barron (3 Viewers)

[wardorican]

Start from about 3min in, where I'm linking this. The first bit is about a bible they put out.



First, I found his early discussion on the nature of political debate being mostly a conflict of wills, of experiences, and how that's not helpful. It's the breakdown of real argument.

So, the way past that is to refuse to cooperate in that verbal violence. don't make it will vs will, experience vs experience. Appeal to values in common, e.g. propose various objective values. A few posters are better than others at this, but I see many try. It really does sum up where political talk goes bad, without directly criticizing that.

Later it gets into Catholic teaching, and politics. Somewhat lightly, since the main idea is that they'll never tell you who to vote for, and the truth is, neither party bats 1000 with the church, so both are generally equally valid.

I thought it was an interesting chat.

I've caught a few other chats with him that are good. He makes an interesting point about the Church having a high bar of expectations, but also lavishly gives divine mercy when we fail.

 

[SystemShock]

That seems like an over the top, broad generalization to make about one religion. This isn't a religion thread and I'm not interested in getting too much into it, but the statement is uncalled for here.

He's not wrong, though.

 

[DaveXA]

He's not wrong, though.

Well, that's just his and your opinion. Many people will disagree.

 

[SystemShock]

Well, that's just his and your opinion. Many people will disagree.

It's not an opinion. It's fact, backed up by historical evidence. Those who disagree, disagree on the basis of denial.

 

[DaveXA]

It's not an opinion. It's fact, backed up by historical evidence. Those who disagree, disagree on the basis of denial.

Until you do a side by side comparison of all religions, which will ultimately be subjective, it's opinion as to who is worst. That said, the Catholic Church has done some objectively bad things over the years.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Until you do a side by side comparison of all religions, which will ultimately be subjective, it's opinion as to who is worst. That said, the Catholic Church has done some objectively bad things over the years.

Dude, just let it go. Some have their place in their feelings about things and can't have their minds changed. Just let it be like I did.

 

[DaveXA]

Dude, just let it go. Some have their place in their feelings about things and can't have their minds changed. Just let it be like I did.

True dat.

 

[GMRfellowtraveller]

Well, I'd say that when referring to the Vatican, that's essentially the heart of the Catholic Church. It's splitting hairs to say you're not talking about the Church when referencing the Vatican.

Anyway, I forgot this was a Catholic related discussion being that Biden himself is Catholic and all that. I've been jumping in and out of a bunch of threads today.

Carry on.

At this point there really isn’t a non-political position the Catholic Church can take
I mean they essentially created European government (monarchies)
Proclamations that come out of the Vatican (at least the ones that make the news) are almost entirely political
The Vatican has as much cover in calling things anti Catholic as the Knesset can in closing their stances as anti Semitic
Which is to say less than 1%

 

[LA - L.A.]

Until you do a side by side comparison of all religions, which will ultimately be subjective, it's opinion as to who is worst. That said, the Catholic Church has done some objectively bad things over the years.

Dude, just let it go. Some have their place in their feelings about things and can't have their minds changed. Just let it be like I did.

This has nothing to do with feelings. It's about history.

First, separate out any feelings about the religious philosophy the Catholic church teaches. Now look at historically what the Vatican has done as an organization outside of the religious philosophy of the Catholic church.

Now, looking at it from that frame of reference, lets look at history. Show me any organizations that were also responsible for a continent wide, systemic stealing and suppressing of knowledge like what the Vatican did across Europe during the Dark Ages.

Show me the equivalent examples on a non-feelings, side by side basis. And that's just one high profile example of the Vatican's stealing and suppressing of knowledge. There are many others, like what they did throughout North and South America.

 

[SystemShock]

Until you do a side by side comparison of all religions, which will ultimately be subjective, it's opinion as to who is worst. That said, the Catholic Church has done some objectively bad things over the years.

It wouldn't be subjective. "Over the years", more like centuries.

I get it, though. People don't want to accept the history of the powerful religious, political institution that spread Christianity throughout the Western world. But hearing people defend/ignore that history, to me, isn't any different from people defending Islam as a a religion of peace.

 

[DaveXA]

It wouldn't be subjective. "Over the years", more like centuries.

I get it, though. People don't want to accept the history of the powerful religious, political institution that spread Christianity throughout the Western world. But hearing people defend/ignore that history, to me, isn't any different from people defending Islam as a a religion of peace.

Ok, I completely disagree, but you have your biases, I have mine. I'm done with it.