Capitalism (1 Viewer)

[Huntn]

Capitalism- good or bad?

This is not my answer that it is bad per se, but the following is what triggered this thread. When I think of a country, I think of it’s citizens as being members of Team USA, Team Canada, or Team UK, etc, and with companies, corporations, I see issues where the emphasis is on profits, not my team. For corporations, the team is not my country, but my small group of capital collectors, and one thing that irritates me constantly is when I call a company, say a U.S. based insurance company and I end up talking to someone in India, or the Philippines. Hey profits up, but citizens (team members) are disenfranchised, the income levels of the home country is undermined, millions of jobs exported to cheap labor locations. I’ve witnessed this in manufacturing for at least the last 30-40 years. When it comes to profits there is no National loyalty. As I said, the team is the corporation, and sometimes, it’s not even the people working locally, some of those like assembly line workers are viewed as drains on the bottom line. Thoughts?

 

[MT15]

Please point to the exact language in the thesis where he says giving women the vote was a mistake. He did say it made it tough for libertarians. He did not say what you claim. He explains that further in his comments.

So we can believe what HE says or we can believe what you imagine he meant. I think he is in a better position to represent what is on his own mind. But maybe I’m wrong. You could be a psychic.

He is ruing the day that women got the right to vote as well as people on welfare. That’s a pretty blatant dog whistle for black people. He recognizes he cannot take their rights away - or to be more precise - he says he knows that their rights cannot be taken away - and that he doesn’t want that.

But his actions, who he bankrolls and how he spends his money, belie that.

 

[TampaJoe]

Have you read anything else? Did you read anything about Yarvin? You are doing what you do a lot, especially when you don’t have a solid leg to stand on - which is focusing on a side issue which isn’t especially pertinent to the question being discussed. You are distracting from the fact that Yarvin and his band of followers, don’t like democracy. At all. They don’t want the people to have a voice, they want the world to be ruled by technocrats. By themselves, actually.

Here, this is very recent.

Techno-Fascism Comes to America

The historic parallels that help explain Elon Musk’s rampage on the federal government.

www.newyorker.com

You can read Yarvin’s words yourself - although I don’t recommend it.

Unqualified Reservations by Mencius Moldbug

Unqualified Reservations by Mencius Moldbug. Ebook links and full chronological archive. An introduction to neoreaction (NRx).

www.unqualified-reservations.org

Is Yarvin a tech CEO? Does he own or run a tech company? Is he a major shareholder? No.

He is a philosopher. A writer. You claim all these tech CEO’s follow him. Saying it isn’t proof. Posting an article where somebody else says it isn’t proof. We demonstrated that easily with Thiel. He didn’t say what you claimed he said.

If you have quotes from a tech CEO where they say women and minorities should be disenfranchised then post it. You haven’t done that. If you have posts from those same CEO’s that say we should do away with democracy,
Post those. Just because someone discussed problems with democracy or capitalism doesn’t mean they want to do away with them. Hell, people criticize capitalism and our government every day on this board, do you think they want to do away with it?

You are leaping to conclusions based on assumptions and claiming they are facts. They are not.

 

[TampaJoe]

He is ruing the day that women got the right to vote as well as people on welfare. That’s a pretty blatant dog whistle for black people. He recognizes he cannot take their rights away - or to be more precise - he says he knows that their rights cannot be taken away - and that he doesn’t want that.

But his actions, who he bankrolls and how he spends his money, belie that.

So YOU say. But you can’t support that with a statement he actually made.

Tell me. Do you think that allowing men to vote makes it more difficult to pass legislation more favorable to women?

 

[MT15]

So YOU say. But you can’t support that with a statement he actually made.

Tell me. Do you think that allowing men to vote makes it more difficult to pass legislation more favorable to women?

This is all just a way for you to distract from what I actually said. You dance around so we don’t have to talk about what the real problem is. That a group of mostly tech billionaires want to do away with democracy.

See if I understand the argument you are making. If somebody pays someone to rob a bank - they buy them the equipment, they provide them with the plans to the bank and the guard schedule - that isn’t any proof that they approve of bank robbery unless they make a statement - “I approve of bank robbery”.

That’s what you’re trying to argue.

 

[MT15]

Joe, see if this will satisfy you at all. (Note to other readers: I don’t entertain any delusion that Joe will even read this nor do anything but dismiss it out of hand. But he has said I am making things up, and further insulted my integrity under the flimsiest of pretenses. This scholarly paper confirms what I have been saying here. Other than the links, the bolding is mine)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17530350.2025.2471602#abstract

“Recent works on ‘postneoliberalism’ (Davies and Gane Citation2021) have attempted to understand the role Silicon Valley and its techno-utopian imaginary have played in the emergence of hybrid forms of neoliberalism. Specific attention has been given to the ways the most libertarian branches of the ‘neoliberal thought collective’ (which brings together neoliberal scholars, politicians, journalists, corporate leaders and knowledge professionals [Mirowski and Plehwe Citation2009]) have been in conversation with famous Silicon Valley tech gurus – such as Peter Thiel, Curtis Yarvin, Patri Friedman or Balaji Srinivasan. Together, they have promoted the formation of neoreactionary movements that advocate for the exit from democracy and for the rebuilding of the state on the model of the start-up (Smith and Burrows Citation2021; Slobodian Citation2023a). Elon Musk’s plans for establishing a ‘self-governing’ colony on Mars (Starlink Citation2022)Footnote1 has, for instance, been celebrated by the Foundation for Economic Education (FEE) as opening up ‘enormous potential’ for the emergence of private settlements, blossoming outside the reach of ‘restrictive’ earthly governments (Walker-Werth Citation2022).”

 

[TampaJoe]

This is all just a way for you to distract from what I actually said. You dance around so we don’t have to talk about what the real problem is. That a group of mostly tech billionaires want to do away with democracy.

See if I understand the argument you are making. If somebody pays someone to rob a bank - they buy them the equipment, they provide them with the plans to the bank and the guard schedule - that isn’t any proof that they approve of bank robbery unless they make a statement - “I approve of bank robbery”.

That’s what you’re trying to argue.

I asked a question. Care to answer?

 

[TampaJoe]

Joe, see if this will satisfy you at all. (Note to other readers: I don’t entertain any delusion that Joe will even read this nor do anything but dismiss it out of hand. But he has said I am making things up, and further insulted my integrity under the flimsiest of pretenses. This scholarly paper confirms what I have been saying here. Other than the links, the bolding is mine)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17530350.2025.2471602#abstract

“Recent works on ‘postneoliberalism’ (Davies and Gane Citation2021) have attempted to understand the role Silicon Valley and its techno-utopian imaginary have played in the emergence of hybrid forms of neoliberalism. Specific attention has been given to the ways the most libertarian branches of the ‘neoliberal thought collective’ (which brings together neoliberal scholars, politicians, journalists, corporate leaders and knowledge professionals [Mirowski and Plehwe Citation2009]) have been in conversation with famous Silicon Valley tech gurus – such as Peter Thiel, Curtis Yarvin, Patri Friedman or Balaji Srinivasan. Together, they have promoted the formation of neoreactionary movements that advocate for the exit from democracy and for the rebuilding of the state on the model of the start-up (Smith and Burrows Citation2021; Slobodian Citation2023a). Elon Musk’s plans for establishing a ‘self-governing’ colony on Mars (Starlink Citation2022)Footnote1 has, for instance, been celebrated by the Foundation for Economic Education (FEE) as opening up ‘enormous potential’ for the emergence of private settlements, blossoming outside the reach of ‘restrictive’ earthly governments (Walker-Werth Citation2022).”

You are correct that this “evidence” which is a bunch of psycho babble doesn’t impress men. It isn’t evidence.

I asked you to point me to quotes made by these men that suggest they want to do away with democracy.

You attached all this BS. I assume you read it. So show me the quotes. Hopefully you have something more than somebody’s psychological opinion of what they think these men really want.

You talked like you had proof. Actual evidence. This ain’t it.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

You are correct that this “evidence” which is a bunch of psycho babble doesn’t impress men. It isn’t evidence.

I asked you to point me to quotes made by these men that suggest they want to do away with democracy.

You attached all this BS. I assume you read it. So show me the quotes. Hopefully you have something more than somebody’s psychological opinion of what they think these men really want.

You talked like you had proof. Actual evidence. This ain’t it.

Do you believe it's possible for someone to want something and to actively work toward a goal without verbally stating that they want to achieve said goal?

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

So you think you can only stereotype a race? Maybe you are the one who needs to hunt for marbles. Stereotyping is a tactic that you can apply to any group. It’s flawed thinking. Flawed logic.

Yes it is. So why do you keep telling people "your party?" That's stereotyping the individual your speaking to and an entire party. If you honestly so strongly oppose stereotyping, you should stop saying "your party" to people when you're disagreeing with them.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

It is a discussion board. I owe you nothing. Grow the F up. I listen to you spout your opinion on everything. If you can’t take a little disagreement the perhaps you should stay off the internet and never leave home. Quit whining.

You're a funny little person. Whining at someone to go away for whining at you. That's richly hypocritical and self-unaware.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

By the way, just because you state something doesn’t make it factual. It just makes it your opinion.

Right back at you, brother. Right back at you.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

And you know that how? Is that what they have said or is that something you have inferred?

You have responded to several posts in different threads that had quotes from Musk, Thiel, Zuckerburg and other tech billionaires openly saying that they don't think some groups of people should be allowed to vote.

It doesn't get any more undemocratic than that my brother. You've seen the quotes for yourself already.

This seem like pretending to be ignorant on your part. You do that a whole bunch. It's one of many reasons why hardly anyone believes your honest and forthright in the things you say. It's an entirely self-inflicted wound.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I am not the one whining here.

Self-awareness beyond zero and into the negative numbers.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Never lecture me again about “facts”.

We get it. Facts don't mean anything to you when the facts show what you believe is false.

You wouldn’t know proof or a real fact if it jumped up and bit you on your arse.

Talking into a mirror again, I see.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Did you even read Peter Thiel’s essay...Thief is a libertarian.

A hall of fame Freudian slip.

In true Freudian slip fashion, it reveals the truth about the person making it. Tampajoe knows that Thiel and so called libertarians are a bunch of thiefs, and yet he supports and defends them.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

Your constant misrepresentation of what I am saying is growing tiring. It is either intentional (and trolling or worse) or you aren’t capable of having this conversation. Which is it?

TampaJoe misrepresents what people say and facts way too consistently for it to be unintentional. To misrepresent what people say and facts at the rate that he does only happens if it's intentional.

The intention might be coming from a subconscious level, so he may honestly not be consciously aware he's doing it, but he's still doing it with intention.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

I asked a question. Care to answer?

She did answer your question multiple times and you keep misrepresenting her answer and the facts that support her answers.

You are the one being evasive, not her. Everybody sees it my brother. I love it, because you're actually hurting the fascist cause while you seem to mistakenly think you're helping the fascist cause.

 

[LA 2 L.A.]

You are correct that this “evidence” which is a bunch of psycho babble doesn’t impress men. It isn’t evidence.

There you go stereotyping after pretending to be outraged by stereotyping. Bird, CuddleMonkey and myself are all men. It's obvious from our responses to you that we find what MT15 is saying to be much more rational, credible, and factually supported, than anything you are saying.

Maybe you mean a certain group of "men?" Tell us more about these "men."

Sexists, like fascists, have an uncanny way of revealing themselves to be sexists without realizing they've revealed themselves to be sexists.