Bipartisan Infrastructure/3.5T Reconciliation/Gov Funding/Debt Ceiling (1 Viewer)

[coldseat]

Thought it would be good to have a place to discuss all the drama on Capitol Hill and whether Democrats will get any of this signed. Given that Republican have abandoned any responsibility of doing anything for the good of country it's on Dems to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling. But as with the reconciliation bill, moderates are opposing this.

I'm really trying hard to understand why Manchin and Sinema are making the reconciliation bill process so difficult and how they think that benefits them? As far as I can see, all it's doing is raising the ire of the majority of democrats towards them. It's been well known for a long time now that both the Infrastructure bill and reconciliation bill were tied together. They worked so hard to get and "Bipartisan" Infrastructure bill together (because it was oh so important to them to work together) and passed in the Senate, but now want to slow drag and bulk on the reconciliation bill (by not being able to negotiate with members of their own party)? There by, Putting both bills passage at risk and tanking both the Biden agenda and any hope of winning Congress in 2022? Make it make sense!

I suspect they'll get it done in the end because the implication of failure are really bad. But why make it so dysfunctional?

The drama and diplomacy are set to intensify over the next 24 hours, as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) scrambles to keep her fractious, narrow majority intact and send the first of two major economic initiatives to Biden’s desk. In a sign of the stakes, the president even canceled a planned Wednesday trip to Chicago so that he could stay in Washington and attempt to spare his agenda from collapse.
Democrats generally support the infrastructure package, which proposes major new investments in the country’s aging roads, bridges, pipes, ports and Internet connections. But the bill has become a critical political bargaining chip for liberal-leaning lawmakers, who have threatened to scuttle it to preserve the breadth of a second, roughly $3.5 trillion economic package.
What is in and out of the bipartisan infrastructure bill?
That latter proposal aims to expand Medicare, invest new sums to combat climate change, offer free prekindergarten and community college to all students and extend new aid to low-income families — all financed through taxes increases on wealthy Americans and corporations. Liberals fear it is likely to be slashed in scope dramatically by moderates, including Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.), unless they hold up the infrastructure package the duo helped negotiate — leading to the stalemate that plagues the party on the eve of the House vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/09/29/biden-pelosi-democrats-infrastructure/

 

[MT15]

This is well put:

 

[GrandAdmiral]

And that's the very reason the Progressives won't pass Infrastructure. They know they can't trust Manchin or Sinema and other moderates. The frustrating part is that they won't name what their top line number or conditions are that they will support to allow the negotiations to move forward on reconciliation.

Either way, they'll both be blamed for tanking the Biden agenda. And they'll be primaried and/or lose enough support among progressives in their states to lose the general if they allow this all to tank. Not to mention assuring a full republican takeover and Trumpism to destroy our country. What a win!

Yep. This whole "pass the Infrastructure Bill and then we can talk," thing isn't going to fly with the Progressives and I don't blame them. Hell, it doesn't fly with me. I don't see the Progressives as being disingenuous in this at all. Every interview that I've seen has been from Progressive have been "give us a number for the framework." They can't even get that. That's wrong. At this point, I'm like fork it. Let em both fail and let's prepare for a Republican-led Congress in 2023.

 

[J-DONK]

Yep. This whole "pass the Infrastructure Bill and then we can talk," thing isn't going to fly with the Progressives and I don't blame them. Hell, it doesn't fly with me. I don't see the Progressives as being disingenuous in this at all. Every interview that I've seen has been from Progressive have been "give us a number for the framework." They can't even get that. That's wrong. At this point, I'm like fork it. Let em both fail and let's prepare for a Republican-led Congress in 2023.

Everyone knows the problem is Sinema, and Manchin. They are only pulling this because of the split in the senate. If Democrats do lose the senate both senators need to be forced out of the party. I don't think either can win the Republican nomination in their respective states.

 

[SaintForLife]

The Democrats don't want any progressive bills passed because their biggest campaign contributors don't want the bills passed. Manchin and Sinema are the scapegoats that will take the all the negative attention and make it seem like the Democrats want the progressive agenda implemented. It's all a game to satisfy the corporate Democrat's supporters.

The Democratic Party's deceitful game

They are willing to bravely support any progressive bill as long as there's no chance it can pass

www.salon.com

 

[J-DONK]

The Democrats don't want any progressive bills passed because their biggest campaign contributors don't want the bills passed. Manchin and Sinema are the scapegoats that will take the all the negative attention and make it seem like the Democrats want the progressive agenda implemented. It's all a game to satisfy the corporate Democrat's supporters.

The Democratic Party's deceitful game

They are willing to bravely support any progressive bill as long as there's no chance it can pass

www.salon.com

Except this hurts Democrats chances of winning in 2022, and in 2024. It's a self defeating plot if you think Manchin and Sinema are doing this at the behest of the DNP.

That article is about reconciliation for the public option. Which I disagree with Glenn it's not how it could, or should be passed. I do agree with Glenn about the filibuster being a tool of Republicans to stop any legislative agenda.

My general thought is if you don't like Democratic party, vote/donate to progressive candidates. That's what I do. I happily sat on my hands, and voted third party in 2016. I know I personally felt hoodwinked by Democrats after hearing the transformative rhetoric of candidate Obama in 2008, and the sharp contrast of a pragmatic president Obama failing to work within the legislative system.

The simple answer is if you don't like Clinton style corporate dems, don't support them. You owe the DNP nothing. There are plenty of progressives that run in primaries every 2 years. They could always use the support.

 

[bdb13]

Some relevance to this

It's from Woodward's new book 'Peril' and they're talking about the stimulus package there that passed back in March.

 

[bdb13]

So I found a Pew Research poll:

so still about half of all Americans favor both bills. 66% favor the tax increases they will use to pay for the bills.

I can believe the polling there.. Republican support much more inline with what logically makes sense.

 

[bdb13]

The Democrats don't want any progressive bills passed because their biggest campaign contributors don't want the bills passed. Manchin and Sinema are the scapegoats that will take the all the negative attention and make it seem like the Democrats want the progressive agenda implemented. It's all a game to satisfy the corporate Democrat's supporters.

The Democratic Party's deceitful game

They are willing to bravely support any progressive bill as long as there's no chance it can pass

www.salon.com

Eh.. maybe, but I think they'd get this passed if the Dems had something like 58 Senators.. instead the expectations from the left in the party have exceeded the reality of the current situation in which a conservative from West Virginia is their deciding vote.

 

[MT15]

I can believe the polling there.. Republican support much more inline with what logically makes sense.

Yeah, but in today’s R party, which has been whittled down to cranks and kooks, 25% and 17% is still pretty good. There aren’t any moderates left in the R party.

 

[bdb13]

 

[MT15]

He has a point. If the progressives vote against the bill today (assuming they have a vote), that’s on them.

They have to recognize at some point that the numbers just aren’t there to support doing everything at once. They just don‘t have the votes.

 

[bdb13]

He has a point. If the progressives vote against the bill today (assuming they have a vote), that’s on them.

They have to recognize at some point that the numbers just aren’t there to support doing everything at once. They just don‘t have the votes.

And so I guess it depends on how you view it all.. you can blame Manchin for sinking the reconciliation bill or the liberals for sinking the more broadly popular bipartisan bill.. I would say that there was never any good reason - other than purely bullying him into it - to believe that Manchin would support such a large bill, and as such I tend towards placing the blame for the way this has played out on the liberals who gave the ultimatum that the bipartisan bill couldn't be passed without the passing of the reconciliation bill.

 

[coldseat]

Whatever Manchin.

It has nothing to do with him being liberal or progressive, plenty of moderates are just as annoyed with him and Sinema. He's just trying to cover his arse because he's getting a lot of heat, probably from his own constituents for protecting his corporate sponsors. He's known what the deal was this whole time. I hate disingenuous crap like that, trying to act like he's doing if for the good of his constituents and because he's trying to "moderate" the crazy progressives.

 

[MT15]

Yes, I wish they would pass the $3.5T bill, but they don’t have the votes. The bill isn’t even finished, so it’s a bit unrealistic to vote against the one that is ready to spite people for not supporting a bill that isn’t written yet.

 

[coldseat]

He has a point. If the progressives vote against the bill today (assuming they have a vote), that’s on them.

They have to recognize at some point that the numbers just aren’t there to support doing everything at once. They just don‘t have the votes.

Nope. Sink it all. And I'm somebody who would greatly benefit from infrastructure bill, but I'm not going to go along with this re-framing for the sake of moderates.

 

[coldseat]

Yes, I wish they would pass the $3.5T bill, but they don’t have the votes. The bill isn’t even finished, so it’s a bit unrealistic to vote against the one that is ready to spite people for not supporting a bill that isn’t written yet.

There's no reason the vote for Infrastructure needs to take place today. Pull it and wait for both bills to be ready to pass. Simple solution.

 

[MT15]

That would be fine too, I don’t pretend to know. I just think sinking this bill that is ready to go is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. If Pelosi calls for the vote, they should vote on it today on its own merits. I don’t like the spitefulness.

 

[coldseat]

That would be fine too, I don’t pretend to know. I just think sinking this bill that is ready to go is cutting off your own nose to spite your face. If Pelosi calls for the vote, they should vote on it today on its own merits. I don’t like the spitefulness.

I don't either, but it would be much better if there wasn't so much spite and disingenuous behavior aimed at liberals/progressives from moderates in their own party. At least treat that faction of the dem party with the requite respect and power they have, just like they go out of their way to do with Republicans at every turn.