Biden seeking a $15 an hour minimum wage in his Covid relief proposal (1 Viewer)

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    If there’s already a Biden economy thread, I can add this there. It could have gone in the Covid thread, but the impact of this would extend well beyond that topic.

    Well past time to raise the minimum wage, which hasn’t been increased since 2009.

     
    For everyone pushing for $15/hr minimum wage, I invite you to visit the McDonalds on St Charles....if they get your order 75% correct, that is considered a win.

    J/K...I get that people need a living wage and perhaps worker attitudes would change if given more than the scraps they're given but it just feels like to me that there should be more to it than just saying 15/hr to everyone....what more? IDK, but there has to be another way.

    hope you know that shift leader makes less than 15 heck a manager might make less.

    The problem you are experiencing is lack of training or lack of giving a duck. shirt runs down hill brother and that franchise owner shirts on all of them and makes its way to you.

    The thing you should probably do is go to a place that pays employees correctly. Have you ever run into a Costco employee in a shirtty mood? I never have heck even the cart wranglers are happy and work well.

    We can go thru the places that treat employees better and low and behold employees are happy and much better.

    Maybe you should not support businesses that shirt on their staff so you don't get shirt on in return.

    Just a crazy thought.
     
    Senator Manchin is on record saying he opposes $15/hr. I think he said he would consider $11/hr

    Here is my question, and I fully admit that I am ignorant on this stuff. Why would higher minimum wage in rural areas force places to close? If people had more money, wouldn't there be a higher probability that people with access to more funds would be spending more money? Also, this probably isn't a good example, but every time I have had to stop as a gas station in the middle of nowhere, the prices seem to be much higher vs in a city. Maybe the land is cheaper, but some things aren't
     
    Senator Manchin is on record saying he opposes $15/hr. I think he said he would consider $11/hr

    Here is my question, and I fully admit that I am ignorant on this stuff. Why would higher minimum wage in rural areas force places to close? If people had more money, wouldn't there be a higher probability that people with access to more funds would be spending more money? Also, this probably isn't a good example, but every time I have had to stop as a gas station in the middle of nowhere, the prices seem to be much higher vs in a city. Maybe the land is cheaper, but some things aren't
    That gas station thing is all about supply and demand. You set the price because of no other options.

    If they raise the minimum wage in rural America just more is gonna be spending in rural America. Poor people are not getting whole food delivery or anything like that. That over priced general store kinda place thirty miles from nowhere will get much more business than now.

    Paying the working poor those funds get spent. Giving back to the rich gets stock purchased.
     
    Senator Manchin is on record saying he opposes $15/hr. I think he said he would consider $11/hr

    Here is my question, and I fully admit that I am ignorant on this stuff. Why would higher minimum wage in rural areas force places to close? If people had more money, wouldn't there be a higher probability that people with access to more funds would be spending more money? Also, this probably isn't a good example, but every time I have had to stop as a gas station in the middle of nowhere, the prices seem to be much higher vs in a city. Maybe the land is cheaper, but some things aren't
    I think it depends.

    A farmer is going to have a hard time, and they may employ a certain amount of people, but their crop is sort of a fixed price commodity.

    A gas station may get an influx of sales, or be better able to raise rates a bit. Heck, often, it's the owner working there, maybe with another person or two. Depending on the size of the place and town.

    A factory, may have an issue paying some of their staff higher wages, again, because their sales may not be inside the local micro economy.

    Services, used by locals, will likely be self sustaining, after that initial shock. Of course the shock is lessened, due to it being raised in steps.

    Then you look at local government. In a lot of places, EMT's make 13-15/hr. Heck, using West Virginia as an example...

    1612476948578.png

    That's 21.37/hr for police. 14.38 for EMT/Paramedic. 17.73 for firefighters.

    It's not hard to see why there is push back. They feel like their cost of living bump will go away. Of course, the point is that those jobs would have to pay more, but those towns don't have city income tax.. they rely on property tax. So, unless that goes up, or they increase millage, would EMT's want to do a less stress job?

    There are things to consider. Not impossible, but things to realistically consider.
     
    I feel like the minimum wage part is either something Dems are going to use as a concession point, or get negotiated down on. I'm not basing this on anything other than gut feeling, but I don't think there was ever an expectation of getting a 15/hr min wage with the COVID bill.
     
    I feel like the minimum wage part is either something Dems are going to use as a concession point, or get negotiated down on. I'm not basing this on anything other than gut feeling, but I don't think there was ever an expectation of getting a 15/hr min wage with the COVID bill.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the D's can use reconciliation for the budget again this year, they are working on the end of 2020 budget that wasn't signed into law by trump.
     
    Senator Manchin is on record saying he opposes $15/hr. I think he said he would consider $11/hr

    Here is my question, and I fully admit that I am ignorant on this stuff. Why would higher minimum wage in rural areas force places to close? If people had more money, wouldn't there be a higher probability that people with access to more funds would be spending more money? Also, this probably isn't a good example, but every time I have had to stop as a gas station in the middle of nowhere, the prices seem to be much higher vs in a city. Maybe the land is cheaper, but some things aren't

    It'd depend on the type of business and where and how people spend the extra money. For example, if you own a lawn mowing business, you are probably not going to see your client list rise because of a minimum wage raise.
     
    I would think that the small farmers can then charge a bit more and also we would then have a population that can afford to eat healthier. That would bring demand up.

    It is ungodly expensive to eat healthy opposed to processed stuff.

    Seattle did this a long time ago and yes then you have a boom in spending because people are not so go damn broke.

    I would think of it like Henry ford did. He invented the middle class by doubling the wage of his workers then made them his customer base because they now have capital and weekends off.

    I don't want to hear that nonsense the minimum wage should go up the exact same rate as inflation every year actually because the cost of living goes up that yearly.

    About Seattle: I'd think having the Microsoft campus just 15 miles outside Seattle had a much greater impact in spending.

    As for Ford, he mass-produced an item that was attractive to his employees, cars. But going back to the example I posted above, if you own a lawn mowing business, your employees are not going to hire you to maw their lawn, and people are not going to hire you to maw their lawn, because they now make $15 an hour. It'd think it'd be true for any small business that offers a service, to various degrees, or for wholesale businesses that sell to middlemen ( ex: farms to supermarkets).
     
    About Seattle: I'd think having the Microsoft campus just 15 miles outside Seattle had a much greater impact in spending.

    As for Ford, he mass-produced an item that was attractive to his employees, cars. But going back to the example I posted above, if you own a lawn mowing business, your employees are not going to hire you to maw their lawn, and people are not going to hire you to maw their lawn, because they now make $15 an hour. It'd think it'd be true for any small business that offers a service, to various degrees, or for wholesale businesses that sell to middlemen ( ex: farms to supermarkets).




    Ok first thing before Henry Ford started mass producing cars we kinda worked like idiots with no days off no real labor laws. You know the child labor good old days

    He doubled the daily wage and gave them a weekend that made them part of the customer base. In other words invented the middle class.

    Well I don't know what to tell you about your lawn business thing. What I know is people are unrealistic on what jobs pay and have no earthly Idea of what business gets per man hour. The shop rate to fix a lawn mower where I go is 75 an hour. A bike shop gets 65 to fix flats and adjust brakes. Should either if those businesses have a problem with those rates? Are either hard or high tech? Are either making nothing on parts?

    this is a non problem
     
    Ok first thing before Henry Ford started mass producing cars we kinda worked like idiots with no days off no real labor laws. You know the child labor good old days

    He doubled the daily wage and gave them a weekend that made them part of the customer base. In other words invented the middle class.
    And that's good and all, but still, that doesn't contradict anything I said.

    Well I don't know what to tell you about your lawn business thing.
    It was just an example. As I said, unlike Ford, which mass produced a product that their employees found desirable to buy, just about any small business that provides a service or sells products to middlemen is not going to see a return on paying their employees $15.00/hr via their employees retaining their services or buying their products.

    What I know is people are unrealistic on what jobs pay and have no earthly Idea of what business gets per man hour. The shop rate to fix a lawn mower where I go is 75 an hour. A bike shop gets 65 to fix flats and adjust brakes. Should either if those businesses have a problem with those rates? Are either hard or high tech? Are either making nothing on parts?

    this is a non problem

    But those $65-$75 an hour aren't pure profit. The net profit for the owner of the business will depend on a number of factors: the number of employees, pricing margins, operational overhead, etc,...
     
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    TBH as an "outsider" I find it somewhat ridiculous that businesses can't exist if they have to pay at least a wage that would allow at minimum roof over peoples heads, food on their tables and the ability to raise a small family, for at full days work....

    If that is the only way a business can survive then something is SERIOUSLY wrong...
     
    Whether one agrees with raising the minimum wage to $15 or not, you couldn't pick a worse time to try it. So many small businesses are barely hanging on during the pandemic. Raising the minimum wage even incrementally right know is not a good idea.
     
    TBH as an "outsider" I find it somewhat ridiculous that businesses can't exist if they have to pay at least a wage that would allow at minimum roof over peoples heads, food on their tables and the ability to raise a small family, for at full days work....

    If that is the only way a business can survive then something is SERIOUSLY wrong...
    A job at McDonald's was never intended to support a family. It's an entry level job that requires low skill or training.
     
    A job at McDonald's was never intended to support a family. It's an entry level job that requires low skill or training.

    FDR disagrees with you.

    It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
     
    A job at McDonald's was never intended to support a family. It's an entry level job that requires low skill or training.

    If it wasn't supposed to support a family how should people survive then? What is happening is that the "state" aka taxpayers subsidize those businesses because the low pay will allow those workers to apply for foodstamps, free school meals or rent suplements. How is that fair?
     
    If it wasn't supposed to support a family how should people survive then? What is happening is that the "state" aka taxpayers subsidize those businesses because the low pay will allow those workers to apply for foodstamps, free school meals or rent suplements. How is that fair?

    Fairness has nothing to do with it. You also have to be careful with your arguments there. I can ask the same thing of universal/single payer healthcare, education, UBI, etc: how is it fair that tax payers would subsidize that?

    There may have been a time in the past when working at McDonalds could've supported a family, but markets and economies change, and technology advances; there was a time when people supported families delivering ice to homes and businesses, developing film, cleaning windshields and inflating tires at gas stations, etc.

    The lower the skill required and the less physically demanding a job is, the less it'll pay as time goes on, and the more likely to disappear.
     
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