Biden Address (9/1/2022): MAGA extremism is a threat to democracy (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

This will be controversial. It appears tailored to appeal to independent and Republican voters who don't approve of what the MAGA movement has become - an attempt to try to further isolate the Trump wing.

Will it work? Or will it have the opposite effect sort of like what we saw with the "deplorables" remark from Hillary?

One thing working for Biden's timing is that some Trump support in the media has clearly been pealing away, he's at a weak point - and could get weaker as the criminal case against him builds. But Biden is definitely throwing down the gauntlet.

 

[Lapaz]

My concern is that if anyone other than Harris is nominated (who I think would lose handily in the general), it will set off a ton of folks who will claim sexism for not giving her the nomination as the sitting VP. They could care less that she hasn't done anything to help herself out (much like her presidential campaign).

Harris would have to win the primary, and I don't think she will. I'm a little ambivalent about Harris. I don't think she is likeable enough, so I think she will turn off a few percentage of the electorate. Likewise, I like Pete Buttigieg, but I don't want him to be the nominee either, because too many people will be turned off by a gay candidate. Even if only a couple of % are turned off, that could be enough for Trump or his acolyte to win. Trumpism is still too powerful and dangerous to Democracy, so we can't take a risk with someone that could lose to a Trumpist. If Republicans nominate a non-Trumpist, then I wouldn't mind Pete, because losing to a non-Trumpist wouldn't end Democracy, so the experiment of nominating a gay candidate or another weak candidate wouldn't be tragic.

 

[Lapaz]

I'm against conventional-wisdom on Abrams. People are basically crowning her some rock star but I don't see it. The hype is reminding me of Hillary Clinton. Reality is she probably loses again in the governor's race. Georgia is doing fairly well economically and Kemp, while not overtly repudiating Trump, largely ignores him and stands on his own.

I like Abrams, but she needs to win in Georgia, before getting a national nomination. Georgia is fairly purple now, so it isn't too much to ask. If the Georgia state election officials block her, then she can win as a congressional representative or Senator.

 

[Lapaz]

Sorry, it's political, and divisive. It's supposed to be. Political because you're saying that Trump and MAGA should have no place in politics. It's divisive because he states unequivocally that if you're a MAGA, there's no room for you in American politics. And I agree, fork every last MAGA and the Trump they rode in on.

I think Biden referred to extreme MAGAs, to distinguish them from regular MAGA. I'm not "MAGA", but I certainly want America to be great again. The problem is America has aspects that are great, but like many other great empires, they had their faults. If you believe America didn't have faults, and that we need to return to a time far in the past without changes, then we don't agree. Besides, Trump didn't make America better. He left it weakened and not trusted due to his Covid downplaying, to NATO denigrating, to dictator worship, to border abuses, to tax preferences for the wealthy, to attempting to undermine Obamacare, to undermining our position in Afghanistan to set a trap for the next administration, to enriching himself from the office, to giving away secrets, to politicizing the Justice Department, to hiring the most incompetent agency heads, to embarrassing America with all the childish names he made up, until the creme de la creme of undermining trust in democracy. If that was making us greater, then I don't want any part of that.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I think Biden referred to extreme MAGAs, to distinguish them from regular MAGA. I'm not "MAGA", but I certainly want America to be great again. The problem is America has aspects that are great, but like many other great empires, they had their faults. If you believe America didn't have faults, and that we need to return to a time far in the past without changes, then we don't agree. Besides, Trump didn't make America better. He left it weakened and not trusted due to his Covid downplaying, to NATO denigrating, to dictator worship, to border abuses, to tax preferences for the wealthy, to attempting to undermine Obamacare, to undermining our position in Afghanistan to set a trap for the next administration, to enriching himself from the office, to giving away secrets, to politicizing the Justice Department, to hiring the most incompetent agency heads, to embarrassing America with all the childish names he made up, until the creme de la creme of undermining trust in democracy. If that was making us greater, then I don't want any part of that.

" The problem is America has aspects that are great, but like many other great empires, they had their faults."

America has its faults like every other nation because people have their faults.

 

[CoolBrees]

President Tammy Duckworth has a great ring to it.

And the inbreds all up in their feels because the guy who they say can’t talk just dog walked them is priceless.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

I'm just curious, but what is it about Abrams that is unappealing to people in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan? Is it just the simple fact that she's seen as/assumed to be too progressive/liberal? Does she have other unlikable qualities?

I wasn't really considering her popularity in my prior comments. I was more so thinking the qualities she poses that would make her a good governor or president.

I'm not sure if she would or wouldn't be successful there, just that it is still an unknown quantity. Her current popularity is largely driven by politicos/cable networks/social media. 2016 presented us with a cautionary narrative on that front. A guy like Mark Kelly might not be as dynamic, but might be the more pragmatic choice. Is it due to misogyny? Racism? Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, winning is the most important thing. If Johnny Lunch-Pale Von Independent is more comfortable with a white guy and former astronaut I'm less concerned with changing his world view than I am getting him to vote for someone who would appoint center to center-left people to the federal courts.

Clintonistas would frequently utter "I don't trust Bernie" because he was an old white guy. I wonder if they would have trusted the three forty-something year-old minority women he would have appointed to the Supreme Court? And I know some people hate that I keep harping on that, but no one can disagree the 2016 election and ascendancy of Trump to the Oval Office was a massive inflection point for this country. And, yes, I still believe Bernie would have beaten him in the three states that mattered. Imagine what the country would be like with Bernie as President between 2017 and 2021 versus where it is now.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Who knew strongmen were so fragile?

The insurrectionists of Jan. 6 busted into the Capitol, hit police with fire extinguishers, flagpoles, bats, stun guns and pepper spray; they threatened to kill the vice president and tried to overthrow the 2020 election.

And now, they want an apology.


MAGA Republican leaders have fomented violence, attacked the rule of law and deceived tens of millions of people into rejecting the outcome of free and fair elections. And now, they, too, want an apology.

I’m sorry, but these authoritarians have some terribly tender egos. They need to pull themselves up by their own jackboot-straps……

While I’m apologizing, let me offer one to the insurrectionists, as Trump demanded:


I regret that the heads and bodies of police officers got in the way of your truncheons and flagpoles while you were engaging in Legitimate Political Discourse at the Capitol.

I hope that you didn’t hurt your fingers while gouging their eyes, and that their blood didn’t stain your tactical assault gear; if it did, please send me the dry-cleaning bill!

I am so sorry that, on your Normal Tourist Visit, you didn’t get to use your noose or all the guns stockpiled at the Comfort Inn in Alexandria.

Please forgive me for previously quibbling with your plan to “hang Mike Pence” and your use of the Confederate flag in the halls of Congress.

I apologize that you had to break windows and doors, climb scaffolding and rappel into the Senate chamber. My bad! Next time you want to overthrow an American election, just knock……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/02/kevin-mccarthy-joe-biden-semi-fascism-trump/

 

[UriUT]

Who knew strongmen were so fragile?

The insurrectionists of Jan. 6 busted into the Capitol, hit police with fire extinguishers, flagpoles, bats, stun guns and pepper spray; they threatened to kill the vice president and tried to overthrow the 2020 election.

And now, they want an apology.


MAGA Republican leaders have fomented violence, attacked the rule of law and deceived tens of millions of people into rejecting the outcome of free and fair elections. And now, they, too, want an apology.

I’m sorry, but these authoritarians have some terribly tender egos. They need to pull themselves up by their own jackboot-straps……

While I’m apologizing, let me offer one to the insurrectionists, as Trump demanded:


I regret that the heads and bodies of police officers got in the way of your truncheons and flagpoles while you were engaging in Legitimate Political Discourse at the Capitol.

I hope that you didn’t hurt your fingers while gouging their eyes, and that their blood didn’t stain your tactical assault gear; if it did, please send me the dry-cleaning bill!

I am so sorry that, on your Normal Tourist Visit, you didn’t get to use your noose or all the guns stockpiled at the Comfort Inn in Alexandria.

Please forgive me for previously quibbling with your plan to “hang Mike Pence” and your use of the Confederate flag in the halls of Congress.

I apologize that you had to break windows and doors, climb scaffolding and rappel into the Senate chamber. My bad! Next time you want to overthrow an American election, just knock……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/02/kevin-mccarthy-joe-biden-semi-fascism-trump/

The same pattern over and over. Faux outrage and pearl clutching.

I linked an npr fresh air interview in the republican thread of an author that chronicled the republican transformation to what it is today. One thing that stood out to me was how the bush jr. election defied the then conventional wisdom. After a tight win in 2000 marred by shenanigans from roger stones on a recount, most experts expected the bush admin would move to the center. Not rove. He moved the administration farther right and banked on issues that angered the base. The rationale is that instead of courting moderates to build the base, finding issues that angered the base leads to higher turnout. In addition, attack the other side’s strength. Kerry was a decorated war hero. They accused him of forging his record…where as bush and Cheney both dodge.

I bring this up because the truth doesn’t matter to these republicans. They want anger from their base, which forces the both sidism media to move their goal post. Now the headline isn’t that these magas are extremists. It’s the two marines. It’s the fake outrage a sitting president is divisive by calling them fascists. That someone dare moved the curtain to reveal the wizard is a fraud.

 

[UriUT]

" The problem is America has aspects that are great, but like many other great empires, they had their faults."

America has its faults like every other nation because people have their faults.

And I don’t know what great means. In terms of global gdp, after wwii we have owned a considerable share…and we still do per capital. The share has declined not because America was less productive. Rather the world caught up. More rights? We’ve gained more equality for more groups. It isn’t perfect but it sure is better than the 20’s or 50’s. We can find more.

So what can America achieve that will make them great again? As if we’ve lost something. More mass shooting? Or better yet stop other nations from progress?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

And I don’t know what great means. In terms of global gdp, after wwii we have owned a considerable share…and we still do per capital. The share has declined not because America was less productive. Rather the world caught up. More rights? We’ve gained more equality for more groups. It isn’t perfect but it sure is better than the 20’s or 50’s. We can find more.

So what can America achieve that will make them great again? As if we’ve lost something. More mass shooting? Or better yet stop other nations from progress?

We're a backsliding democracy. So when I think we can get better I think of stopping this slide away from a democratic republic. While we're doing better in some battles, gay rights, racism ( except the Trumpsters ), etc., we're in danger of losing the war.

"U.S. listed as a ‘backsliding’ democracy for first time in report by European think tank"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/22/united-states-backsliding-democracies-list-first-time/

 

[UriUT]

We're a backsliding democracy. So when I think we can get better I think of stopping this slide away from a democratic republic. While we're doing better in some battles, gay rights, racism ( except the Trumpsters ), etc., we're in danger of losing the war.

"U.S. listed as a ‘backsliding’ democracy for first time in report by European think tank"

Right. And many of the policies to roll back these rights are in the name of making america "great again". Attacking librarians??? Teachers, school board, scientists, minimizing evidence based studies...there is a pattern. The hypocrisy of 'great'. The same rhetoric was there in the 30s of tge us Nazi movement. Under reagan. All disguised to fool the population so they can achieve the backsliding.

 

[zztop]

Right. And many of the policies to roll back these rights are in the name of making america "great again". Attacking librarians??? Teachers, school board, scientists, minimizing evidence based studies...there is a pattern. The hypocrisy of 'great'. The same rhetoric was there in the 30s of tge us Nazi movement. Under reagan. All disguised to fool the population so they can achieve the backsliding.

I was going to post this elsewhere, but since you mentioned librarians...



cliff notes:

- armed "activists" show up at their houses
- they want certain books banned, that the library doesn't even have
- the library insurance provider won't insure them anymore, due to "increased risk exposures"
- mentions something about "the american redoubt" which I was unfamiliar with, but sounds awfully like their own version of isis caliphate

American Redoubt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I was going to post this elsewhere, but since you mentioned librarians...



cliff notes:

- armed "activists" show up at their houses
- they want certain books banned, that the library doesn't even have
- the library insurance provider won't insure them anymore, due to "increased risk exposures"
- mentions something about "the american redoubt" which I was unfamiliar with, but sounds awfully like their own version of isis caliphate

American Redoubt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trying to ban books that the library doesn't even have, bringing guns to a library meeting. Nuts.

 

[MT15]

There’s a word for using bullying and threats of violence to get your way politically: it’s fascism. And yet, conservatives bristle when it’s called out, but they don’t say a single word about the people using these tactics because they like the outcome.

 

[UriUT]

NOT Divisive, yeah?



And he's right. He's always right because he projects. He always tells the truth when he attacks others. One only has to realize he refers to himself when he does.



I mean who the hell started the Brandon meme? It's far past time the both sides media excuse the misbehaving kids. Call it for what it is and not say well you're upsetting these fragile thugs that have zero issue throwing gasoline on a toddler.

And I remember when Biden was accuse of being a pedo bc he pecked a kid on the head. Yes on this site even.

 

[UriUT]

Praising autocrats again.



BTW, those two countries are direct adversaries of the USA. Intent on making America not great.

 

[UriUT]

Seriously. WTF is wrong with the media. Saying that a certain portion of our population is a danger to our constitutional republic is not in anyway an attack on America! We have proof that they are a danger. Jan 6th isn't enough? Attacking the integrity of our elections?? When the hell can you say the sky is blue before one of these both siders acknowledge that the sky is blue? We had the former president using the office to blackmail a foreign country for his personal gain. How intellectually dense can one be. No, it is moral weakness. And I believe there is a part of an oath of military that vows to protect the constitution from all enemies of the constitution; foreign and domestic.

 

[DaveXA]

Seriously. WTF is wrong with the media. Saying that a certain portion of our population is a danger to our constitutional republic is not in anyway an attack on America! We have proof that they are a danger. Jan 6th isn't enough? Attacking the integrity of our elections?? When the hell can you say the sky is blue before one of these both siders acknowledge that the sky is blue? We had the former president using the office to blackmail a foreign country for his personal gain. How intellectually dense can one be. No, it is moral weakness. And I believe there is a part of an oath of military that vows to protect the constitution from all enemies of the constitution; foreign and domestic.

I think some hate speech is acceptable, like...hating fascism, Trumpism and MAGA idiots is fair game.