Banning books in schools (3 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Excellent article I thought deserved its own thread
    =========================

    On the surface, it would appear that book censors and censored authors like myself can agree on one thing: Books are powerful.

    Particularly books for children and teens.

    Why else would people like me spend so much time and energy writing them?

    Why else would censors spend so much time and energy trying to keep them out of kids’ hands?

    In a country where the average adult is reading fewer and fewer books, it’s a surprise to find Americans arguing so much about them.

    In this election year, parents and politicians — so many politicians — are jumping into the fray to say how powerful books can be.

    Granted, politicians often make what I do sound like witchcraft, but I take this as a compliment.

    I’ll admit, one of my first thoughts about the current wildfire of attempted censorship was: How quaint.

    Conservatives seemed to be dusting off their playbook from 1958, when the only way our stories could get to kids was through schools and libraries.

    While both are still crucial sanctuaries for readers, they’re hardly the only options. Plenty of booksellers supply titles that are taken off school shelves.

    And words can be very widely shared free of charge on social media and the rest of the internet. If you take my book off a shelf, you keep it away from that shelf, but you hardly keep it away from readers.

    As censorship wars have raged in so many communities, damaging the lives of countless teachers, librarians, parents and children, it’s begun to feel less and less quaint.

    This is not your father’s book censorship…..

    Here’s something I never thought I’d be nostalgic for: sincere censors. When my first novel, “Boy Meets Boy,” was published in 2003, it was immediately the subject of many challenges, some of which kept the book from ever getting on a shelf in the first place.

    At the time, a challenge usually meant one parent trying to get a book pulled from a school or a library, going through a formal process.

    I often reminded myself to try to find some sympathy for these parents; yes, they were wrong, and their desire to control what other people in the community got to read was wrong — but more often than not, the challenge was coming from fear of a changing world, a genuine (if incorrect) belief that being gay would lead kids straight to ruination and hell, and/or the misbegotten notion that if all the books that challenged the (homophobic, racist) status quo went away, then the status quo would remain intact.

    It was, in some ways, as personal to them as it was to those of us on the other side of the challenge.

    And nine times out of 10, the book would remain on the shelf.

    It’s not like that now. What I’ve come to believe, as I’ve talked to authors and librarians and teachers, is that attacks are less and less about the actual books.

    We’re being used as targets in a much larger proxy war.

    The goal of that war isn’t just to curtail intellectual freedom but to eviscerate the public education system in this country.

    Censors are scorching the earth, without care for how many kids get burned.

    Racism and homophobia are still very much present, but it’s also a power grab, a money grab. The goal for many is a for-profit, more authoritarian and much less diverse culture, one in which truth is whatever you’re told it is, your identity is determined by its acceptability and the past is a lie that the future is forced to emulate.

    The politicians who holler and post and draw up their lists of “harmful” books aren’t actually scared of our books.

    They are using our books to scare people.

     
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    But that is not how the groups like Moms for liberty want it. They want groups like them to make the decision, not the librairian or the principle. not even the school board.
    I can't speak for them.
    You won't find very many people who think a book about 2 boys having oral sex should be in the library. What people are concerned with is these groups banning books just for the shear mention of the word gay (or insert anything other than straight) or even a having a gay character in the book, or any mention of white people being racist.
    Really? Folks is Bigdaddysaints right about that?

    You want "Lawn Boy" and "Gender Queer" taken out of the library? Show of hands?

    I agree that groups like that object to a lot of books that I would think should be in the library. But I don't make the leap from that to parents should have no say in what books are in the library, or no say over what books their own kids are given in the library.

    The great part about democracy and free speech is that, even though the extremists tend to make the most noise, the process of deliberation, persuasion, negotiation, voting, and representative government tends to favor compromise, not catering to extremes.
     
    Imagine teaching children that some people are different, and being different is okay

    I read some of the one star Amazon reviews and they are definitely a vibe of Dads who hit their young son if he says he likes pink or My Little Pony
    Oooh, I read some of the four-star Amazon reviews and they were definitely a vibe of Moms who hit their young daughter if she says to the gender specialist,

    "I don't know why Krazy brought me here. I was born a girl and I don't want to be anything but a girl. Not that it matters, because I'll always be a girl and nothing can change that. Could you please tell Bat Shirt here to stop wasting her money and buy me a gosh darned dress so I'm not embarrassed going to church in this stupid lumberjack outfit?"

    I fear for gender-conforming children with parents like that.
     
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    Have you read Lawn Boy? I haven't and i have no idea what it is. You talk about it as if you read it. If you have not, i assume you are going off of what others have said?
     
    Can you find a single case of children being forced into trangenderism? A single one?

    No? Right you can't.

    I can find thousands of examples of red neck parents who believe in invisible sky people and the earth is 6000 years old who forcibly refuse their children's right to bodily autonomy.
     
    Can you find a single case of children being forced into trangenderism? A single one?

    No? Right you can't.

    I can find thousands of examples of red neck parents who believe in invisible sky people and the earth is 6000 years old who forcibly refuse their children's right to bodily autonomy.
    and no one ever read a book that turned them gay..lol
     
    Have you read Lawn Boy? I haven't and i have no idea what it is. You talk about it as if you read it. If you have not, i assume you are going off of what others have said?
    I've read it, yes. I posted a description of one of its chapters on here and the description was censored. The whole book is not about children having sex. It's about a grown man who meets a friend from his childhood who has become a "greed is good" type real estate developer. That's what the book is mainly about, a re-hash of the evil-white-man-who-cares-about-nothing-but-money story.

    While the narrator is talking to his old friend turned villain, he remembers fondly the time when they were kids and experimented with oral sex. There was a vibe of "if only people knew."

    The author himself said that the book is for adults and inappropriate for kids, but it got a young adult fiction award, that recommended it for middle schools.

    Your fellow progressives here would rather eat concrete than just admit that it was a bonehead move to put it in school libraries.
     
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    I would pause putting a book with descriptions of oral sex in middle schools. I don't think it is appropriate for elementary school kids. I have no issue with this book in High School
     
    I would pause putting a book with descriptions of oral sex in middle schools. I don't think it is appropriate for elementary school kids. I have no issue with this book in High School
    You have a perfectly valid opinion. In a democracy with free speech, everyone's opinion is valid, we can all express them, and then our elected representatives decide. I don't know why that angers so many people.
     
    But just like I don't litigate my own lawsuits or perform my own medical procedures, I will yield on the side of the educated professionals.

    Librarians have an incredible amount of schooling needed to actually be a librarian so their opinions are better suited than mine to make a decision for the public at large.
     
    But just like I don't litigate my own lawsuits or perform my own medical procedures, I will yield on the side of the educated professionals.

    Librarians have an incredible amount of schooling needed to actually be a librarian so their opinions are better suited than mine to make a decision for the public at large.
    I think that twenty years ago, nearly all parents felt that way, if they thought about it at all.

    Apparently some of the books these incredibly well schooled librarians have been stocking lately have shaken parents' confidence.
     
    And for what it's worth - The purple shadow book has 93% 5 star reviews, 3% 4 stars and 3% one star reviews

    Which is symbolic of so many of these issues the vast majority has no problem whatsoever about the book or loves the book, a tiny percentage does but it's that tiny percentage that gets the deciding vote
     
    Here are some of the one-star reviews. Can you tell me which has be most vibe of Dads who hit their young sons if he says he likes pink or My Little Pony?

    From the United States​


    Tony
    1.0 out of 5 stars Stop lying to your children
    Reviewed in the United States on April 29, 2023

    There are 2 genders of which it is not your choice to pick, end of story. Stop lying to your children. The fact that children's books like this even exist is a representation of how far removed from sanity this world is.

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    Jim D
    1.0 out of 5 stars Confusing message
    Reviewed in the United States on June 26, 2023

    If his dad's shadow is emotional, why can't he be just like his dad being both strong and caring? Also he can appreciate though his mom is a woman she took can be strong in her own way.

    By interjecting the alphabet soup of "genders" into the conversation, this book only served to confuse and groom vulnerable young minds who have not yet gone through puberty.

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    IrishFiveOh
    1.0 out of 5 stars Far left garbage
    Reviewed in the United States on May 6, 2023

    This type of material should not be available to children. The hysteria over gender identity has caused people like the author to hop on the bandwagon, seemingly without any remorse. There are two genders and they are binary. Do not buy this garbage.

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    MARIE
    1.0 out of 5 stars Gross
    Reviewed in the United States on June 27, 2023

    Stay away from my child and all children. This is sick. There are only two genders and this world is beyond insane! Get this off the market.

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    The Warrior
    1.0 out of 5 stars This book causes confusion.
    Reviewed in the United States on July 1, 2023

    This book is obscene for the age group of 4 to 10. Why are so many adults obsessed with breaking children's minds in today's world?

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    Ace
    1.0 out of 5 stars A must-read for historians of the next century
    Reviewed in the United States on July 1, 2023

    This book is going to be a museum piece when historians try to unravel what in the actual heck happened here...

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    Electrocaine XxX
    1.0 out of 5 stars Brainwashing!
    Reviewed in the United States on January 12, 2023

    Abusive trash.

    17 people found this helpful
    I've seen more extreme reviews for some other similarly themed books

    and you're right none of these say right out they'd hit their kid but doesn't seem that hard to believe that people who say:

    "Stop lying to your children", "Do not buy this garbage", "Stay away from my child and all children. This is sick", "Abusive trash"

    might not react with love, kindness, empathy and understanding if one of their children was transgender
     
    I've seen more extreme reviews for some other similarly themed books

    and you're right none of these say right out they'd hit their kid but doesn't seem that hard to believe that people who say:

    "Stop lying to your children", "Do not buy this garbage", "Stay away from my child and all children. This is sick", "Abusive trash"

    might not react with love, kindness, empathy and understanding if one of their children was transgender
    Out of love, they would say, "you're a kid and kids get confused about who they are. That's practically the definition of being a kid.

    "Don't get caught up in the social contagion so you won't end up making permanent changes to your body trying to solve a temporary psychological concern."

    Are there parents who hit their kids? Sadly, yes. But nothing but bias leads you to think that parents opposed to sexualizing kids are more likely to be violent.
     
    you're really going to die on this gender=sexuality hill aren't you?

    and what if the 'kid is twenty years old and isn't confused at all?

    and this is literally what was said to kids who were gay, do you feel homosexuality is a social contagion as well?

    And by 'nothing but bias' you mean reading about the experiences of LBGTQ teens (many of which are posted in our thread here) then yes
     
    An absurd statement. If the overwhelming majority of men enjoyed pizza, but the overwhelming majority of women found the idea of eating pizza disgusting, that would show a link between gender and food choices. Since food choice has never been shown to be related to gender, gender and food are not linked. Same for sexuality.

    The overwhelming majority of biological males identify as straight men, by which they mean that they are attracted to biological females who identify as women. Maybe there are some biological males who identify as straight men who would not differentiate between a woman and a transwoman for purposes of dating and sex. If there are, I've never met one online or IRL who would admit it. After much pulling of teeth, I got one progressive straight man on here to admit that he would not have sex with a person with a penis.

    Maybe instead of demonizing Trans-exclusive radical feminists, progressives should work on straight men progressives who are trans-exclusive, because as far as I know that is all of them. That's why Dylan can't get dates.

    I went ahead and bolded the part that makes sense. The rest is just ridiculous bullshirt.
     
    you're really going to die on this gender=sexuality hill aren't you?
    I never said "gender=sexuality," so that would not be my hill to die on.
    and what if the 'kid is twenty years old and isn't confused at all?
    Then they are not a kid. I doubt that many parents hit their twenty year old grown offspring.
    and this is literally what was said to kids who were gay, do you feel homosexuality is a social contagion as well?
    No, and I never heard of anyone saying that homosexuality was a social contagion, not "literally" or whatever the other way would be.
    And by 'nothing but bias' you mean reading about the experiences of LBGTQ teens (many of which are posted in our thread here) then yes
    At best, those experiences mean that those teens had a bad experience. It is not evidence that parents of LBGTQ+ kids are more likely to hit them, than parents of any other kids. Hitters gonna hit.
     
    Do you know of any straight male cisgender poster on this board willing to say that he would have sex with a woman with a penis?

    Not sure why this matters. After all, I once heard someone say that someone else's personal experience is not evidence of anything larger:

    At best, those experiences mean that those teens had a bad experience. It is not evidence that parents of LBGTQ+ kids are more likely to hit them, than parents of any other kids. Hitters gonna hit.
     

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