Autonomous Zone Mineappolis (1 Viewer)

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Roofgardener

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It appears that there is now a "no-police zone" in George Floyd Square ? Similar in concept to the Seattle Autonomous Zone ?

I gather that this has been going on for some time, but it has now toughened up. White journalists are threatened if they try and enter.
(approx 4 minutes in).

One person has already been shot and killed, with the Police prevented from entering ?

The insurectionists have posted a list of demands;

Most strange.
 
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Roofgardener

Roofgardener

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....Minneapolis also has a very strong police union. The head of the Minneapolis police union is a very well documented racist....
Truly ? That's awful. Except.. where are these documents ?
He certainly resisted attempts to weaken his police force, and he was also outspoken against George Floyd, accurately referring to him as a 'violent criminal'. He got a LOT of critisism for this, even though he was accurate.

serious question, do you think what they are doing here (I will state that I do not agree with) is the exact same thing that happened on Jan 6th? are you saying they are trying to stop a presidential election from being certified?
No, I don't. Both where forms of insurrection however, in that they denied and usurped lawful authority.
 

RobF

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Truly ? That's awful. Except.. where are these documents ?
He certainly resisted attempts to weaken his police force, and he was also outspoken against George Floyd, accurately referring to him as a 'violent criminal'. He got a LOT of critisism for this, even though he was accurate.
This is another example of denialism and being highly disingenuous.

Anyone who reads that Wikipedia article will see it describes Bob Kroll as someone who "has been involved in three officer shootings, accumulated 20 internal affairs complaints, and been the subject of multiple lawsuits", and they'll see the details of some of those lawsuits and complaints, including the allegations of the use of racial and homophobic slurs and a lawsuit for racial discrimination.

They'll also see that the article states he opposed "calls to address racial bias within the force and reduce the number of people killed by police", which @Roofgardener here has apparently, hopefully inadvertently, equated with "attempts to weaken his police force."

And they probably don't need to read the article to know that characterising someone murdered over allegedly using a fake twenty dollar bill, an event in which all the violence was executed by the police, not the victim, as a 'violent criminal' is disingenuous to point of inaccuracy and indicates prejudice.
 

Bigdaddysaints

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No, I don't. Both where forms of insurrection however, in that they denied and usurped lawful authority.
Still not sure if this fits the bill of insurrection: a violent uprising against an authority or government.
So its funny you'll call this insurrection but refuse to admit what happened on Jan 6th was insurrection.
 
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Roofgardener

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This is another example of denialism and being highly disingenuous.

Anyone who reads that Wikipedia article will see it describes Bob Kroll as someone who "has been involved in three officer shootings, accumulated 20 internal affairs complaints, and been the subject of multiple lawsuits", and they'll see the details of some of those lawsuits and complaints, including the allegations of the use of racial and homophobic slurs and a lawsuit for racial discrimination.
I'm sure that most police offers are the subject of complaints and lawsuits at some point in their career. I notice that you gloss over the fact that he was consistently cleared of all charges ?

They'll also see that the article states he opposed "calls to address racial bias within the force and reduce the number of people killed by police", which @Roofgardener here has apparently, hopefully inadvertently, equated with "attempts to weaken his police force."
Without knowing the details of these 'calls', and what they involved, then its difficult for me to comment.

And they probably don't need to read the article to know that characterising someone murdered over allegedly using a fake twenty dollar bill, an event in which all the violence was executed by the police, not the victim, as a 'violent criminal' is disingenuous to point of inaccuracy and indicates prejudice.
He WAS a 'violent criminal'; that is a matter of record, not prejudice. And he was NOT 'murdered' or 'executed'; stop using inflammatory and emotive language. He died whilst under police restraint. The police MAY be found culpable for that, but to call it murder (let alone 'execution' ) is ridiculous.
 

Xeno

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I'm sure that most police offers are the subject of complaints and lawsuits at some point in their career. I notice that you gloss over the fact that he was consistently cleared of all charge ?


Without knowing the details of these 'calls', and what they involved, then its difficult for me to comment.


He WAS a 'violent criminal'; that is a matter of record, not prejudice. And he was NOT 'murdered' or 'executed'; stop using inflammatory and emotive language.
So if someone hasn't been charged with 'Insurrection' they can't be an insurrectionist...

But if someone has been charged with multiple degrees of 'Murder'... They can't be a murderer?

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Roofgardener

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Derek Chauvin. The officer who MURDERED George Floyd. The officer facing multiple charges of MURDER for MURDERING George Floyd.
Oooh right.. I didn't know that he had been accused of murdering him. Thanks for the correction.
That being the case, RobF was correct to use the term 'murdered', though I'd still object to RobF's characterisation of the event as an 'assassination'.
 

RobF

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I'm sure that most police offers are the subject of complaints and lawsuits at some point in their career. I notice that you gloss over the fact that he was consistently cleared of all charges ?
If you'd actually read the Wikipedia article you linked, you'd know that he was in fact disciplined on three occasions, including being demoted once.

And if you had a better awareness of the subject in general, you'd also be aware that part of the problem is that police are too often not held to account for their actions. Your assertions rely on the assumption that the justice system acts consistently fairly, impartially, and without prejudice. That's not an assumption that stands up to any reasonable scrutiny.

Without knowing the details of these 'calls', and what they involved, then its difficult for me to comment.
This is actually a commendable level of self-awareness. If only you'd had it before you commented and not after.

He WAS a 'violent criminal'; that is a matter of record, not prejudice.
The choice of that "inflammatory and emotive language" there is a matter of prejudice. He was not a violent criminal at the time of his murder. It has no bearing on his death. So why choose that characterisation? Why defend it?

Prejudice.

And he was NOT 'murdered' or 'executed'; stop using inflammatory and emotive language. He died whilst under police restraint. The police MAY be found culpable for that, but to call it murder (let alone 'execution' ) is ridiculous.
Maybe read more carefully. The phrase "the violence was executed by" refers to violence being put into effect. It does not refer to his execution. Although I personally wouldn't object to the characterisation of his murder, by police officers, as execution.

Additionally, his murder was filmed. I'm glad you've acknowledged that charges have been brought, but if they hadn't, as too often is the case, that wouldn't change the reality.
 

samiam5211

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I'm sure that most police offers are the subject of complaints and lawsuits at some point in their career. I notice that you gloss over the fact that he was consistently cleared of all charges ?
I don't believe that most officers are ever involved in lawsuits. I bet it isn't even 25%. I also doubt that even 50% of officers ever have an official complaint filed against them, but i would be willing to consider any statistics you might have to back up that little stat you used to minimize the situation.
 

Farb

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The article you posted doesn’t say that first responders are not allowed into the zone. How do you know that to be the case?
https://apnews.com/article/shooting...al-injustice-09c26e54e6546250045adddfc1ec34f6

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — Authorities say a man was shot and killed near the the Minneapolis intersection known as George Floyd Square, where Floyd died in police custody last May.

Police received reports about 5:45 p.m. Saturday that two people had been shot and were being brought to the barricades at the entrance to the area. The victim was gone by the time officers arrived, police spokesman John Elder said.


Sadly, this was expected.
 

Farb

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Derek Chauvin. The officer who MURDERED George Floyd. The officer facing multiple charges of MURDER for MURDERING George Floyd.
Derek Chauvin, I guess, he was Floyd's drug dealer? That makes sense.

And yes, I think Floyd died due to excited delirium brought on by high level of fentanyl, but that is a debate for a different thread when the peacful protests/riots start again after the hearing.
 

RobF

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And yes, I think Floyd died due to excited delirium brought on by high level of fentanyl, but that is a debate for a different thread when the peacful protests/riots start again after the hearing.
Ah, the old "drop false narrative, then say it's not to be debated here," approach. No.

Floyd's death was homicide. Both the autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, and the independent autopsy conducted by doctors hired by his family's legal team ruled it as such. He died because a police officer kneeled on his neck. One autopsy ruled it was due to 'cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression', the other 'asphyxiation from sustained pressure'.

Neither of those autopsies mentioned so-called "excited delirium". The video shows no evidence of it. Other experts, for example, those cited in this 538 article, or this forensic pathologists's breakdown, see no evidence of it. But I'm sure you know who did mention it though? Thomas Lane, an officer at the scene, subsequently charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.

So perhaps you're disregarding the findings of medical professionals in favour of that. Which would be wrong. Or perhaps you may have fallen for the misrepresentation of the findings in the media both before and following the autopsy findings being fully published. Which would also be wrong. Or maybe you just independently think that you know better than the qualified medical professionals who conducted those autopsies. Again, wrong.

But whichever it is, you're clearly wrong, and deliberately or inadvertently, pushing a false narrative. Maybe, don't.
 

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Still doesn’t say they weren’t allowed in, nor does it say how he got to the hospital, which is why he was gone when police arrived. You could be correct, but your article doesn’t say any of what you are alleging.
 

Farb

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Ah, the old "drop false narrative, then say it's not to be debated here," approach. No.

Floyd's death was homicide. Both the autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, and the independent autopsy conducted by doctors hired by his family's legal team ruled it as such. He died because a police officer kneeled on his neck. One autopsy ruled it was due to 'cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression', the other 'asphyxiation from sustained pressure'.

Neither of those autopsies mentioned so-called "excited delirium". The video shows no evidence of it. Other experts, for example, those cited in this 538 article, or this forensic pathologists's breakdown, see no evidence of it. But I'm sure you know who did mention it though? Thomas Lane, an officer at the scene, subsequently charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder.

So perhaps you're disregarding the findings of medical professionals in favour of that. Which would be wrong. Or perhaps you may have fallen for the misrepresentation of the findings in the media both before and following the autopsy findings being fully published. Which would also be wrong. Or maybe you just independently think that you know better than the qualified medical professionals who conducted those autopsies. Again, wrong.

But whichever it is, you're clearly wrong, and deliberately or inadvertently, pushing a false narrative. Maybe, don't.
I guess we will have to wait and see.

https://nypost.com/2021/03/15/staten-island-autonomous-zone-bar-reopens-may-sue-ny/

I wonder if they powers that be will let these guys operate outside the law?
 

RobF

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I guess we will have to wait and see.
For what? We have not one, but two, medical autopsies ruling homicide and, y'know, the video that shows him being killed by a police officer kneeling on his neck.

Suggesting that someone who died due to a police office kneeling on his neck, with a video of him being killed by a police officer kneeling on his neck, and with subsequent autopsies finding he died due to a police officer kneeling on his neck, maybe really just happened to die from an 'excited delirium' which the video doesn't show and the medical autopsies didn't find is akin to suggesting that someone shot maybe really just happened to have an unrelated fatal heart attack at that exact moment so maybe it wasn't the bullet that actually killed them. No.

It was homicide, and he died from a police officer kneeling on his neck. There is no credible position otherwise. There is no subsequent event that can change the video of him being killed and the findings of the medical autopsies.

The only thing we could be waiting for is for you to catch up with reality. Well, whenever, you're ready.
 

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