Are we delivering viruses to ourselves? (1 Viewer)

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    The moose

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    Now that we have data that coronavirus can survive on boxes and hard surfaces for days is it being spread to us by delivery services?

    Ups or FedEx sorting centers and quick delivery they provide could be passing the virus to us.

    This article is pretty good. If you get a package delivery just think about it.

     
    My wife got really sick a few days after returning from the Netherlands back January. She tested negative for the flu was diagnosed with pneumonia but never took an x-ray to confirm. had one scheduled but for some reason we ended up not going. She was prescribed some medicines but we almost went to ER one night cause she could not breathe. After that she improved.
    Could have been coronavirus, I guess. If so, I wonder why none of us - her immediate family - got sick.

    It's possible, but the Netherlands weren't a hotspot for COVID-19 in January, so the probability is it was some other type of virus, since airplanes are just full of people passing along all sorts of viruses. Glad she's better.
     
    I think it is.

    Which is a fact.

    Have you looked at the stock market, for one? The money businesses are losing? The people who are losing their jobs?


    I do. Take precautions, sure. Not run out to buy all the toliet paper I can and lock myself in my house.


    No one said this thread was about gun violence. I was just drawing a parallel to something that has a substantially higher death rate, has no known direct cure, can affect you at any time without warning, and taxes healthcare systems in certain regions of the country; yet,we don't lock ourselves in our houses and build toilet paper castles.


    That right there is making it worse than it is. Why stop at 1 million? Heck, I could kill 5 million. It could kill 10 million. It potentially could be more deadly than the Black Plague.


    Highly doubt it.


    Our healthcare system is fine. It can take an extra 10-20 million people on, no issues.

    I really don't understand your line of argument. We already have evidence that left unchecked this virus overwhelms local hospitals. What more evidence do you need?
     
    It's possible, but the Netherlands weren't a hotspot for COVID-19 in January, so the probability is it was some other type of virus, since airplanes are just full of people passing along all sorts of viruses. Glad she's better.
    I brought it back up after posting and she reminded me she went to Boston for some meetings over 2 days with architects from several different countries and several cities in US before she returned home.

    I think it is doubtful as well, but the severity of her sickness has us wondering.
     
    I brought it back up after posting and she reminded me she went to Boston for some meetings over 2 days with architects from several different countries and several cities in US before she returned home.

    I think it is doubtful as well, but the severity of her sickness has us wondering.

    Yeah, it's possible, and one of the frustrating things about all this - the lack of verifiable information. It makes everything harder to predict and to model.
     
    When something comes in a box to my house, it stays by our shoes, I spray it down with lysol. Later, I open it, then remove the contents. Depending on what they are, I spray that down too.

    I'm not 100% consistent on groceries. But, things like Gatorade bottles, etc I wipe down with a disinfectant. I wash my apples and stuff with soap and water for 20 seconds or so. We've probably missed some stuff, but I do what I can. And I've been disinfecting door knobs, the fridge handle, microwave, stink handles, toilet flusher, etc on a daily basis.
     
    And I'll say this, the risk of getting something on what is being delivered to you is far less than going out into crowded public spaces touching everything yourself, interacting with the staff, putting things on the belt, paying with cash, or touching the card machine, opening doors, yadda yadda yadda.

    That coupled with you'd have far less interactions, so less of a chance not only to get it, but to spread it to others.

    That's how you flatten the curve. It's not 100% avoidance, it's minimizing interactions and chances.
     
    And I'll say this, the risk of getting something on what is being delivered to you is far less than going out into crowded public spaces touching everything yourself, interacting with the staff, putting things on the belt, paying with cash, or touching the card machine, opening doors, yadda yadda yadda.

    That coupled with you'd have far less interactions, so less of a chance not only to get it, but to spread it to others.

    That's how you flatten the curve. It's not 100% avoidance, it's minimizing interactions and chances.
    I have wondered about produce. I don't eat fruits or vegetables but my family does. Seems like soap would affect the taste?
     
    I really don't understand your line of argument. We already have evidence that left unchecked this virus overwhelms local hospitals. What more evidence do you need?


    So, again, I am not saying that we just should ignore it, or leave it unchecked. What I am saying, we shouldn't raid supermarkets for toilet paper and hide in our homes hoping it'll pass while the world's economy crashes. The economic crash is bringing long lasting consequences to people too.

    But I guess we can't be smart about it. We just should hide.
     
    And I'll say this, the risk of getting something on what is being delivered to you is far less than going out into crowded public spaces touching everything yourself, interacting with the staff, putting things on the belt, paying with cash, or touching the card machine, opening doors, yadda yadda yadda.

    That coupled with you'd have far less interactions, so less of a chance not only to get it, but to spread it to others.

    That's how you flatten the curve. It's not 100% avoidance, it's minimizing interactions and chances.


    I know the heat thing will not work on this virus like the flu. Heat wipes out the flu.

    I have read multiple times that the virus will not last nearly as long on surfaces as the temp goes up. The problem is it lasts for days in some so still long enough to be transmitted.

    The scary thing is that I read one of the ships they still found the virus 17days after the passengers were gone. That is scary.

    Gonna get to 85 here today I hope it helps us.
     
    I know the heat thing will not work on this virus like the flu. Heat wipes out the flu.

    I have read multiple times that the virus will not last nearly as long on surfaces as the temp goes up. The problem is it lasts for days in some so still long enough to be transmitted.

    The scary thing is that I read one of the ships they still found the virus 17days after the passengers were gone. That is scary.

    Gonna get to 85 here today I hope it helps us.
    I don't know why this is still an unknown, because there are labs all over the world studying the virus. It should be easy to determine the effect of temperature on the virus. We know it survives at higher temperatures, because it exists in the southern hemisphere and in warmer climates in the northern hemisphere, but how does it affect its replication? We know much of the spread in the winter is due to people being much closer together, but does the cooler weather also help it "live" longer outside the body?

    I read the same thing about the 17 days on the cruise ship, but was it in a large enough concentration to make anyone sick? It's my understanding that it takes a minimum viral load to sicken someone, not just the presence of one virus, because the most people's immune system would defeat a small concentration.
     
    So, again, I am not saying that we just should ignore it, or leave it unchecked. What I am saying, we shouldn't raid supermarkets for toilet paper and hide in our homes hoping it'll pass while the world's economy crashes. The economic crash is bringing long lasting consequences to people too.

    But I guess we can't be smart about it. We just should hide.

    I think most people are suggesting being smart about it and not panicking. Problem is humans aren't very good at moderation.
     
    We now have the most cases in the world. 16,000 new cases in the last 24 hours. How can we be considering lifting restrictions?
     
    We now have the most cases in the world. 16,000 new cases in the last 24 hours. How can we be considering lifting restrictions?

    That is the last thing we should do.

    This is a global pandemic. Everyone is dealing with the same problem. It is not hard do what worked for others.

    For one we can't go back online if we can't even figure out testing.
     
    We now have the most cases in the world. 16,000 new cases in the last 24 hours. How can we be considering lifting restrictions?
    Governors, who are far more intelligent than trump and who actually give a shirt about the people they govern first, have not been considering lifting restrictions. That has been talk by a panicked trump. Trump has 0 powers to reopen anything save for national parks and such. Understand that right now, trump is only interested in the economy recovering to help his re-election bid. This is the place that all trump's decisions are coming from; what can help his re-election. Trump right now is making moves to keep himself out of prison. If he loses the election, he goes to jail and he loses a good chunk of his business.

    Knowing what is known about his virus ask yourself a few questions:
    • What sane individual would be talking about lifting restrictions and possibly exacerbating the pandemic for which we still don't have a cure or vaccine?
    • What could possibly motivate someone who has the power to immediately force private businesses to convert their operations over to produce medical equipment and muster the armed forces to help overrun hospitals across the country to not use those powers?
    • Has trump shown any proclivity to do anything that was not in his own self interest or the interests of his immediate family?
    • What kind of man or woman would be willing to sacrifice people's lives in an ill-fated attempt to "save" the economy?
    I bet if Baron or Melania got sick, they would receive the best damn care the country could provide. The US citizens and the people who most ardently support trump are noting more than pawns who can and will be sacrificed for his ultimate goal; getting re-elected and staying out of prison.
     
    I was studying the Worldometer stats on countries, and I noticed something that isn't a revelation, but it is reinforced by the data, that more tests are better. It isn't perfect correlation, but the correlation between ratio of the number of cases to number of tests performed is a strong indicator of whether a country is getting the virus under control. Nearly every country that has been hit hard and continues to show high increases in cases has tested less than 10 times the number of cases they have reported. For example, the U.S. has tested about 2.5M, while we have about 0.5M cases reported, so about 5 times as many tests as cases, and our cases are still rising rapidly. Most of the countries that seem to be doing well have done at least 15 times as many tests as reported cases. A couple have done over 100 times as many tests as cases. Clearly it isn't that simple, since every country has different measures in place besides testing, and how well they use the data to prevent further spreading will vary from country to country, but the data indicates that we need to increase our tests until we've tested about 15 times as many people as we have cases. We need to do 5M more tests to get to that point with our current reported cases. Then we need to properly handle that data to prevent further spreading, before we re-open.
     
    Has anyone considered that the plasma that is being collected from people that have recovered may only be given to special patients? The plasma from one recovered person can supposedly be used for up to 5 people. Though we have many people that have recovered, a large portion of those have conditions that make them unsuitable donors under normal standard practices. I wonder if those standards should be relaxed? Also, I wonder what the criteria is for the use of that plasma? Also, I wonder if we had good blood serum tests, if we wouldn't have much more plasma available, since many more healthy people would know they could help with their plasma?
     
    When something comes in a box to my house, it stays by our shoes, I spray it down with lysol. Later, I open it, then remove the contents. Depending on what they are, I spray that down too.

    I'm not 100% consistent on groceries. But, things like Gatorade bottles, etc I wipe down with a disinfectant. I wash my apples and stuff with soap and water for 20 seconds or so. We've probably missed some stuff, but I do what I can. And I've been disinfecting door knobs, the fridge handle, microwave, stink handles, toilet flusher, etc on a daily basis.

    When I was a girl a thousand years ago all our fruits and vegetables came from Asmara (Eritrea) and had to be washed as soon as they came into the house. My chore was to wash and dry everything except bananas.

    I used 1 table spoon of Tide and 1/2 cup of Chlorox in a sink full of water.. Rinse twice and air dry on clean towels or an array of collenders.

    We never had any sickness or parasites.
     

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