Are we delivering viruses to ourselves? (1 Viewer)

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The moose

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Now that we have data that coronavirus can survive on boxes and hard surfaces for days is it being spread to us by delivery services?

Ups or FedEx sorting centers and quick delivery they provide could be passing the virus to us.

This article is pretty good. If you get a package delivery just think about it.

 

Brennan77

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So much of this is starting to feel like a moralistic sci-fi short story
What makes you think it's not?

There's a lot to learn about community, isolation, boundaries of order and chaos, purity, etc in an event like this. SciFi short stories mean to convey those things. So yeah...

 

Mr. Blue Sky

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Now that we have data that coronavirus can survive on boxes and hard surfaces for days is it being spread to us by delivery services?

Ups or FedEx sorting centers and quick delivery they provide could be passing the virus to us.

This article is pretty good. If you get a package delivery just think about it.



I dont doubt that this is true.

Ive stopped going out for food, to restaurants or stores.. now i’m relying exclusively on Amazon/Whole Foods delivery and similar services to bring food to me.. if even that is determined to be dangerous, I’m not sure how we’ll survive.
 

JimEverett

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I dont doubt that this is true.

Ive stopped going out for food, to restaurants or stores.. now i’m relying exclusively on Amazon/Whole Foods delivery and similar services to bring food to me.. if even that is determined to be dangerous, I’m not sure how we’ll survive.
Most of us are going to get it, at least if people who say how easy it is spread are right.

I take we have destroyed the world economy because we do not want to overwhelm hospitals all at once.
 

GMRfellowtraveller

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Most of us are going to get it, at least if people who say how easy it is spread are right.

I take we have destroyed the world economy because we do not want to overwhelm hospitals all at once.
Explain that last part please
I think I get what you’re saying but I’m not sure
 

SystemShock

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Explain that last part please
I think I get what you’re saying but I’m not sure
Pretty self explanatory. Putting Italy aside, as testing becomes more widespread, every day confirmed exposures grow exponentially, while the exposure to death ratio decreases. So the trend says, the virus is not as deadly as it was/is being made out to be, and that the real concern is the number of people who will need medical attention related to a new sickness, and the inability of healthcare infrastructure to take on the patients.

And the last sentence is why we all have gone on locked down mode, crippling the world economy in the process.
 
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The moose

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Most of us are going to get it, at least if people who say how easy it is spread are right.

I take we have destroyed the world economy because we do not want to overwhelm hospitals all at once.
To stop the transmission rate of this requires a shut down it is pretty simple. In a open market health care system we are in doesn't allow the medical industry to be proactive and stockpile for the what ifs of the world. This is what has to happen with the way we are set up.

We are in the real crap of this yet Uncle Sam is not building like China did. No hospital made in ten days here or even started. hell just got the boats out of dry dock a couple days back.

I would think that the massive drop in the market would only really effect everyone except the stupid rich. Yep on paper they have less yes but still have plenty of capital to take advantage of the situation. They still own most of the pie it is just worth less.

Yet those with the capital did not invest in us in the past because profit margins are not high enough. The same ones that sent our manufacturers to other shores.

This climate is exactly what the David teppers Of the world drool over.

You know buy bank of America stock at 3 bucks when you already know our uncle is gonna bail them out before we do.
 

SystemShock

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And just to pour more fuel into the fire... because, hey, it's me...


As of today, number of deaths in the U.S. for the virus are at 288, out of 22,738 confirmed cases. If we assume that the dead, the recovered cases, and the current patients in serious and critical condition all had hospitals stays, that puts the number of people who (I think is obvious) were hospitalized at 523 hospitalizations. I don't think people with mild to none symptoms would have been hospitalized.

In contrast, as of today, there have been 8,560 deaths to gun violence, plus 5562 injuries.

Not that I am afraid to die, or afraid of guns, but it there was such a thing, I guess I am higher in the afraid scale of a bullet taking me out than covid-19, which originated in Wuhan, China.
 
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lurk

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And just to pour more fuel into the fire... because, hey, it's me...


As of today, number of deaths in the U.S. for the virus are at 288, out of 22,738 confirmed cases. If we assume that the dead, the recovered cases, and the current patients in serious and critical condition all had hospitals stays, that puts the number of people who (I think is obvious) were hospitalized at 523 hospitalizations. I don't think people with mild to none symptoms would have been hospitalized.

In contrast, as of today, there have been 8,560 deaths to gun violence, plus 5562 injuries.

Not that I am afraid to die, or afraid of guns, but I guess I am higher in the afraid scale of a bullet taking me out than covid-19, which originated in Wuhan, China.
Give it time, Nero. It hasn't even gotten started yet.
 

Lapaz

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Pretty self explanatory. Putting Italy aside, as testing becomes more widespread, every day confirmed exposures grow exponentially, while the exposure to death ratio decreases. So the trend says, the virus is not as deadly as it was/is being made out to be, and that the real concern is the number of people who will need medical attention related to a new sickness, and the inability of healthcare infrastructure to take on the patients.

And the last sentence is why we all have gone on locked down mode, crippling the world economy in the process.
What do you think the death rate is of Coronavirus? How deadly do you think it is being made out to be? The seasonal flu death rate is about 0.1%. This virus is often reported to have about a 2 to 3% death rate, but it is higher everywhere so far, except South Korea. The only country that seems to be nearing as low as a 1% death rate is South Korea, but Italy is closer to 40%. So the best result seen anywhere is still 10 times worse than a seasonal flu. So to me it seems like this is being made out to be LESS deadly than it seems to be. Also, it is much more contagious than the seasonal flu, so if we treated it like the seasonal flu, then more than twice as many people would get it compared to the seasonal flu. If the death rate is as low as 1%, we would have at about 20 times more deaths than a normal flu, and if the death rate is closer to 5%, then possibly more than 100 times as many deaths.
 
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Lapaz

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And just to pour more fuel into the fire... because, hey, it's me...


As of today, number of deaths in the U.S. for the virus are at 288, out of 22,738 confirmed cases. If we assume that the dead, the recovered cases, and the current patients in serious and critical condition all had hospitals stays, that puts the number of people who (I think is obvious) were hospitalized at 523 hospitalizations. I don't think people with mild to none symptoms would have been hospitalized.

In contrast, as of today, there have been 8,560 deaths to gun violence, plus 5562 injuries.

Not that I am afraid to die, or afraid of guns, but it there was such a thing, I guess I am higher in the afraid scale of a bullet taking me out than covid-19, which originated in Wuhan, China.
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that gun violence is worse, because so few people have needed ICU due to Covid-19. If so, you're not looking ahead to the number of people that will need ICUs if the virus spreads too quickly. Numerous countries have over 5% of their cases in critical condition. If we ever get 1M people simultaneously sick with Covid-19, then we will probably have our beds filled just with Covid-19 patients, and no beds available for all of the other causes. Since Covid-19 is much more contagious than the seasonal flu, we have to take extraordinary measures to prevent reaching those numbers, because the number of deaths is untenable. China and South Korea have been able to nearly stop the spread, and that's what we need to do to prevent a catastrophe much worse than the hit to our economy.
 

JimEverett

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I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that gun violence is worse, because so few people have needed ICU due to Covid-19. If so, you're not looking ahead to the number of people that will need ICUs if the virus spreads too quickly. Numerous countries have over 5% of their cases in critical condition. If we ever get 1M people simultaneously sick with Covid-19, then we will probably have our beds filled just with Covid-19 patients, and no beds available for all of the other causes. Since Covid-19 is much more contagious than the seasonal flu, we have to take extraordinary measures to prevent reaching those numbers, because the number of deaths is untenable. China and South Korea have been able to nearly stop the spread, and that's what we need to do to prevent a catastrophe much worse than the hit to our economy.
If it is more contagious than the flu then we should be up to 1m people infected very quickly, right? The CDC says we have had something like 40m to 55m people infected with the flu in the last 5.5 months. So really we should expect something like 10m or more by the end of this month or first week in April? Or maybe it is better to say e already have 10m or more people with it?
 
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Lapaz

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If it is more contagious than the flu then we should be up to 1m people infected very quickly, right? The CDC says we have had something like 40m to 55m people infected with the flu in the last 5.5 months. So really we should expect something like 10m or more by the end of this month or first week in April? Or maybe it is better to say e already have 10m or more people with it?
We probably won't reach those infection numbers because of the measures we're taking to prevent the spread of Covid-19. We weren't taking any special measure to prevent the spread of the seasonal flu.
 

JimEverett

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We probably won't reach those infection numbers because of the measures we're taking to prevent the spread of Covid-19. We weren't taking any special measure to prevent the spread of the seasonal flu.
Hardly anyone was doing anything until last week or so, though. It just seems like if this virus is more contagious than the flu then a whole lot more people have it then the "confirmed case" numbers indicate. And I am not doubting you when you say it is more contagious. Pretty much every expert I have read that talks about the contagion factor places it a higher range than the seasonal flu.
 

Lapaz

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If it is more contagious than the flu then we should be up to 1m people infected very quickly, right? The CDC says we have had something like 40m to 55m people infected with the flu in the last 5.5 months. So really we should expect something like 10m or more by the end of this month or first week in April? Or maybe it is better to say e already have 10m or more people with it?
Contagiousness
Disease experts estimate that each COVID-19 sufferer infects between two to 3 others.
That's a reproduction rate up to twice as high as seasonal flu, which typically infects 1.3 new people for each patient.


The R0 of the new coronavirus so far seems to hover around 2 to 2.5, according to the World Health Organization. A study of the poorly contained outbreak on the Diamond Princess cruise ship revealed an R0 consistent with those estimates: 2.2.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-contagious-r-naught-average-patient-spread-2020-3

So evidence indicates that Covid-19 is almost twice as infectious as the seasonal flu.
 

Lapaz

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Hardly anyone was doing anything until last week or so, though. It just seems like if this virus is more contagious than the flu then a whole lot more people have it then the "confirmed case" numbers indicate. And I am not doubting you when you say it is more contagious. Pretty much every expert I have read that talks about the contagion factor places it a higher range than the seasonal flu.
I also have no doubt that many more people have Covid-19 than have been confirmed, which is why we're getting thousands of new cases daily, but keep in mind that the first case arrived in the U.S. on 20 JAN, and it takes time to spread across the U.S. By contrast, the seasonal flu was already all over the U.S., and the flu season started around October 2019, so it isn't surprising that 13 million have caught the flu (I read it is closer to 13M, not 44M), even though heard immunity via vaccines kept the numbers lower than they would otherwise be. Since Covid-19 will probably be present all over the U.S. next October, it will probably infect over 100M people next season, unless we have a vaccine by then. If not, then hopefully our medical system will be prepared for the onslaught.
 
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