All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (3 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[el caliente]

Wow you are good at dodging aren't you? You are the one that tried to pose some smart alec moral dilemma about who gets a hospital bed or not (who gets to live or not), never mind not understanding how hospital operates. You are the one that blames nancy, joe, or whomever is responsible for the lack of hospital beds.

Im actually pretty shirtty at dodging. I’m not the person you are painting. I believe they should all have a bed, and if they don’t, why should Joe, Donald, Nancy, or Lindsey be to blame? They aren’t the ones denying people service. They aren’t the ones turning people away for medical service.

Why aren’t we blaming the hospital admins for not adding more beds (rather than blaming people for needing their service)? Does adding a bed to a hospital require an act of Congress (honest question, because you know how hospitals operate, I don’t). If it does require government intervention maybe we need to look into that.

The idea, the myth, the big foot of thought, that people should be able to shift the blame for their health on elected officials is beyond stupid. Nobody forced you to stay in/go out/drive in your car with a mask. Only you can prevent forest fires, and only you can force yourself to get vaccinated.

I never thought I would be the guy defending elected officials that I would never vote for, but here we are, looking for boundary lines, not battle lines.

 

[SFIDC3]

You and I have a difference of opinion here. Lying to people about a vaccine or about a deadly pandemic and increasing their odds for dying or being seriously ill, as well as clogging up the health care system so that regular illnesses cannot be treated is scum of the earth behavior. It’s damn near sociopathic. Not something that a moral, ethical person would do. So it’s easy to think badly of them. They’re horrible people.

Yup, astounding how many folks don't get this.....My wife has 2 relatives (both right wing nut cases) that died of Covid, likely contracted going to their church that was kept open by Death Santis in FL......Darwin at work....sure....also irresponsible, unconscionable, knowingly and uncaring politicians pandering to their moronic base....

 

[SystemShock]

So you are going to give the bed to the drunk driver, the person that overdosed, or the person that has been living an unfit lifestyle over the person that didn’t get vaccinated?

Are drunk drivers , drug addicts, and people living unfit lifestyles the only people who go to hospitals?
How about the people who are injured by the drunk drivers? Or the people who get injured because junkies assaulted them and robbed them to buy drugs? Or people with congenital issues that have nothing to do with lifestyle? Or innocent victims of drive by shootings? Or work related accidents? Or pregnant women? Or injuries due to so-called acts of god?

Also, when was the last time drunk drivers, drug addicts, and people living unfit lifestyles, on their own or even collectively, overwhelmed hospitals nationwide? And for how long?

 

[el caliente]

Yup, astounding how many folks don't get this.....My wife has 2 relatives (both right wing nut cases) that died of Covid, likely contracted going to their church that was kept open by Death Santis in FL......Darwin at work....sure....also irresponsible, unconscionable, knowingly and uncaring politicians pandering to their moronic base....

Unconscionable, uncaring, low brow, and duly elected.

Vote them out.

Are drunk drivers , drug addicts, and people living unfit lifestyles the only people who go to hospitals?
How about the people who are injured by the drunk drivers? Or the people who get injured because junkies assaulted them and robbed them to buy drugs? Or people with congenital issues that have nothing to do with lifestyle? Or innocent victims of drive by shootings? Or work related accidents? Or injuries due to so-called acts of god?

Also, when was the last time drunk drivers, drug addicts, and people living unfit lifestyles, on their own or even collectively, overwhelmed hospitals nationwide? And for how long?

That’s more of an argument as to why hospitals should build out their facilities to include more beds, and more staff. There is no reason to deny people beds and service. Are we now denying folks beds?

There are a lot of health care needs in the world. Perhaps it’s time to acknowledge that we need facilities to match those needs.

 

[SystemShock]

That’s more of an argument as to why hospitals should build out their facilities to include more beds, and more staff.

You were right: you are shirtty at dodging questions.

There is no reason to deny people beds and service. Are we now denying folks beds?

There may be no reason for denying beds and services, but there are certainly causes, like idiots not only ignoring but even defying simple recommendations during an extraordinary health crisis.

 

[el caliente]

You were right. You are shirtty at dodging questions.


There may be no reason for denying beds and services, but there are certainly causes, like idiots not only ignoring but even defying simple recommendations..

I’m at least honest with myself about my faults, because they are MY FAULTS. I don’t need to blame an elected official for my stupidity. It’s a sad day when people need to shift the blame for their poor decisions on to a government official.

But to your question, all of those folks should be able to get a bed. I’m not at a point in my life where I can decide who does or doesn’t deserve care (that’s why I’m glad you are here ).

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

Still, how are you going to blame elected officials for blowing smoke up your arse about Covid? People have free agency. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The solution is to make me Emperor and I'll sort all of this out.

 

[SystemShock]

I’m at least honest with myself about my faults, because they are MY FAULTS.

And?

I don’t need to blame an elected official for my stupidity. It’s a sad day when people need to shift the blame for their poor decisions on to a government official.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

But to your question, all of those folks should be able to get a bed.

That's a very nice sentiment, but devoid of reality and reason.

I’m not at a point in my life where I can decide who does or doesn’t deserve care (that’s why I’m glad you are here ).

Boy , indeed you are shirtty at avoiding questions.

 

[el caliente]

The solution is to make me Emperor and I'll sort all of this out.

You have my vote as long as you can can Goodell.

And?

What does that have to do with what I posted?


That's a very nice sentiment, but devoid of reality and reason.


Boy , indeed you are shirtty at avoiding questions.

I thought that I had answered your questions, but if I didn’t answer them to your liking it’s only because I didn’t understand them. Are you asking me who I feel should be denied service (the answer is no one)? Are you asking me to consider those hit by drunk drivers, etc. (I have considered them, and the answer is to take care of them)? Was the question asking me to play judge and determine who deserves a bed (the answer was I don’t feel comfortable doing that)?

I’m not being obtuse, what is your question? If you can’t type it out, can you please use pictures with colors? Thanks.

 

[UriUT]

But to your question, all of those folks should be able to get a bed. I’m not at a point in my life where I can decide who does or doesn’t deserve care (that’s why I’m glad you are here ).

You may think this makes you stand on a higher moral ground, but what it shows is your lack of self reflection and comprehension of what folks have been telling you. The only one choosing are the unvaccinated who fills an already stressed out healthcare system. Hospitals can adapt short term to sudden waves. Like putting beds in spaces not normally used. Converting beds that was intended for other medical reasons...heck even using hallways like reported in california. Staff working 70 hrs a week. These are dedicated and clever folks. I remember following a doctor...and it has been a while so my details are a bit...so because of a supply shortage, he found other a way to perform a test anyway. It may be something minor but it worked. And they dont certainly decide who lives or die. The medical condition determines that...

 

[UriUT]

Im actually pretty shirtty at dodging. I’m not the person you are painting. I believe they should all have a bed, and if they don’t, why should Joe, Donald, Nancy, or Lindsey be to blame? They aren’t the ones denying people service. They aren’t the ones turning people away for medical service.

Why aren’t we blaming the hospital admins for not adding more beds (rather than blaming people for needing their service)? Does adding a bed to a hospital require an act of Congress (honest question, because you know how hospitals operate, I don’t). If it does require government intervention maybe we need to look into that.

The idea, the myth, the big foot of thought, that people should be able to shift the blame for their health on elected officials is beyond stupid. Nobody forced you to stay in/go out/drive in your car with a mask. Only you can prevent forest fires, and only you can force yourself to get vaccinated.

I never thought I would be the guy defending elected officials that I would never vote for, but here we are, looking for boundary lines, not battle lines.

Don't know what to say. You are cleansing any faults to those who manipulate their position to lie for the sake of power and notoriety. A lot of these unvax relies and trusts these politicians. Because of that they died. Sure if a politician has policy and was honest about but still result in negative behavior...fine. But this??

A new analysis by NPR suggests that Republicans are probably dying at a higher rate as a result. A nationwide comparison of 2020 presidential election results and COVID-19 death rates since vaccines became available for all adults, found that counties that voted heavily for Trump had nearly three times the COVID-19 mortality rate of those that went for Joe Biden. Those counties also had far lower vaccination rates.

And let's remember the Jan 6th incident where lies were perpetrated against the crazies. Or how about what we are seeing in bucha Ukraine's. These lies are weapons. Its not simply a lets vote them out when the crazies are in some feedback loop that allows for it.

 

[el caliente]

You may think this makes you stand on a higher moral ground, but what it shows is your lack of self reflection and comprehension of what folks have been telling you. The only one choosing are the unvaccinated who fills an already stressed out healthcare system. Hospitals can adapt short term to sudden waves. Like putting beds in spaces not normally used. Converting beds that was intended for other medical reasons...heck even using hallways like reported in california. Staff working 70 hrs a week. These are dedicated and clever folks. I remember following a doctor...and it has been a while so my details are a bit...so because of a supply shortage, he found other a way to perform a test anyway. It may be something minor but it worked. And they dont certainly decide who lives or die. The medical condition determines that...

I’m just glad I’m not the one that gets to decide on who lives and who dies is all. I don’t think that highly of myself on such issues.

“Converting beds that were intended for other purposes”…wth? Are people using hospital beds for reasons other than medical care? Prices at the hospital are certainly up there with the price of an all inclusive Mediterranean resort, but I’m certain folks aren’t using those beds for R&R.

Is it a matter of $$$? Is there just not as much money in helping Covid patients as there is in someone coming in for a penis extension?

Does it take an act of congress to get more beds, medical personnel, or expansions on hospitals? Is there not enough money in scaling out medical capabilities?

Don't know what to say. You are cleansing any faults to those who manipulate their position to lie for the sake of power and notoriety. A lot of these unvax relies and trusts these politicians. Because of that they died. Sure if a politician has policy and was honest about but still result in negative behavior...fine. But this??





And let's remember the Jan 6th incident where lies were perpetrated against the crazies. Or how about what we are seeing in bucha Ukraine's. These lies are weapons. Its not simply a lets vote them out when the crazies are in some feedback loop that allows for it.

What one chooses to believe and do is strictly on them. Nobody is forcing them to not take a vaccine, storm a capital, or vote red/blue. I got plenty of poor grades (by my standard at least) back in undergrad because I would play Halo and Madden well into the night. I never thought about blaming XBox, EA sports, or Bungie, but hell, I suppose I was only playing checkers when I should have been playing chess in my approach as to who to blame for my poor judgment.

Side note, the other day I had to take off of work in order to bring my newborn daughter for her checkup. The reason I had to take her (as opposed to my wife) was because she was getting over a cold, and the doctor’s office doesn’t allow the recently sick to attend these appointments.

I have no problem with that, I just thought it was funny, a doctors office not allowing sick people in. Made me chuckle. My daughter is fine, she is on the petite side (50% in both weight and height).

 

[UriUT]

I’m just glad I’m not the one that gets to decide on who lives and who dies is all. I don’t think that highly of myself on such issues.

“Converting beds that were intended for other purposes”…wth? Are people using hospital beds for reasons other than medical care? Prices at the hospital are certainly up there with the price of an all inclusive Mediterranean resort, but I’m certain folks aren’t using those beds for R&R.

Is it a matter of $$$? Is there just not as much money in helping Covid patients as there is in someone coming in for a penis extension?

Does it take an act of congress to get more beds, medical personnel, or expansions on hospitals? Is there not enough money in scaling out medical capabilities?


What one chooses to believe and do is strictly on them. Nobody is forcing them to not take a vaccine, storm a capital, or vote red/blue. I got plenty of poor grades (by my standard at least) back in undergrad because I would play Halo and Madden well into the night. I never thought about blaming XBox, EA sports, or Bungie, but hell, I suppose I was only playing checkers when I should have been playing chess in my approach as to who to blame for my poor judgment.

Side note, the other day I had to take off of work in order to bring my newborn daughter for her checkup. The reason I had to take her (as opposed to my wife) was because she was getting over a cold, and the doctor’s office doesn’t allow the recently sick to attend these appointments.

I have no problem with that, I just thought it was funny, a doctors office not allowing sick people in. Made me chuckle. My daughter is fine, she is on the petite side (50% in both weight and height).

Have you been to a hospital where one wing is unused and isnt staffed because there arent any patients? They even used those rooms for storage sometimes. Have you been to a hospital where its icu beds are at capacity nearly every minute and the number of beds are relatively few compared to a more funded one? And the pulmonologist adapt by triaging who they can send down to telemetry? And do you know that some hospitals around here converted normal beds to strictly covid floors at the height of the pandemic? That is other purposes...

This isnt about $$$ as waves are sudden shock to the healthcare system. Ive stated this already. Here I'll dummy it down a bit. Each hospital is like a pail of varying size and has a hole of varying size. The hole represents discharge and sometimes death. There is a faucet that represents the daily admission (mi, accidents, pneumonia, etc) that a hospital encounters. On normal function the pail maintains a stable level. Now introduce a hose that represents covid. What do you think happens then? Especially if the covid hose's flow is severe bc folks refuse to get vaccinated? The folks with normal care gets screwed along with the covid cases.

And the other part of your point go read my previous post on individual freedom. Folks are stupid. You can give evidence of your stupid acts I dont care. Its unimportant. What I find appalling is that you don't put any blame on the liars and crooks that deceive for political gains while their voters die. And folks do listen to these crooks and liars. Don't tell me this big lie is some grass roots b's cuz anyone with critical thought will see it.

That is the moral compass of your argument and its disgusting. Look at Russia. The system is so corrupt (especially the propaganda) that a vast majority of them are advocating for more ukrainians atrocity. No the common russians should be blamed for supporting it. But the elites desrves the most. One does not excuse the german nazis leadership for the atrocity of their soldiers.

 

[el caliente]

I suppose my moral compass is off a bit. Holding people responsible for their decisions might be viewed as a bit old fashioned, but it’s just how I was raised. Determining who should or shouldn’t get medical care is like playing God, and I don’t care to do that.

My thoughts on holding politicians responsible is by voting them out, if that doesn’t satisfy you what is the best course of action?

 

[UriUT]

I’m just glad I’m not the one that gets to decide on who lives and who dies is all. I don’t think that highly of myself on such issues.

I suppose my moral compass is off a bit. Holding people responsible for their decisions might be viewed as a bit old fashioned, but it’s just how I was raised. Determining who should or shouldn’t get medical care is like playing God, and I don’t care to do that.

Ah, you're not on some higher moral ground, right? No, you, again, just cannot understand that the only one who decides who lives or dies are the intentional unvaccinated and the crooks that pushes that false narratives.

And yeah it's very convenient that you believe that a person cannot influence another person's choice, but believes in consequences to be voted out. Do you not understand how irrational that is?

 

[el caliente]

Ah, you're not on some higher moral ground, right? No, you, again, just cannot understand that the only one who decides who lives or dies are the intentional unvaccinated and the crooks that pushes that false narratives.

And yeah it's very convenient that you believe that a person cannot influence another person's choice, but believes in consequences to be voted out. Do you not understand how irrational that is?

No, I don’t believe I am on a higher moral ground. If you feel that I am, that’s on you. I just don’t think I am qualified to determine who lives and who dies when it comes to these things. If you are qualified, and it makes not difference to you, then good on you.

I don’t think voting people out for doing a bad job is irrational. I think that’s the final measure one can go to in order to combat crappy politicians, and we have that right (as long as we don’t muck it up). If that isnt sufficient for you, what do you prescribe doctor?

Also, does it require an act of congress for hospitals to add more beds, higher more medical professionals, or expand? I’m not sure if I caught your answer on that.

 

[brandon]

I suppose my moral compass is off a bit. Holding people responsible for their decisions might be viewed as a bit old fashioned, but it’s just how I was raised.

Didn’t expect you to come out in favor of charging the intentionally unvaccinated with murder and politicians who encouraged it as accessories.

 

[el caliente]

Didn’t expect you to come out in favor of charging the intentionally unvaccinated with murder and politicians who encouraged it as accessories.

Nope, and why should I? We are all responsible for our own decisions (are we not)? So why hold politicians responsible for the actions of others?

I’m not forcing you to respond to any comments, it’s the hook that brings you back.