All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (2 Viewers)

[Maxp]

I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

This was a conspiracy theory according to the misinformation experts.

It was Soros, amirite?

 

[MT15]

Good, got another one:

 

[SaintForLife]

SFL: Oh, snap! Look what I found.

Okay.




For 15 months, Reid loaned this unusual skill to a nine-person team dedicated to investigating the mystery of COVID-19’s origins. Commissioned by Senator Richard Burr (R-N.C.), the team examined voluminous evidence, most of it open source but some classified, and weighed the major credible theories for how the novel coronavirus first made the leap to humans. An interim report, released on Thursday by the minority oversight staff of the US Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP), concludes that the COVID-19 pandemic was “more likely than not, the result of a research-related incident.”

COVID-19 Origins: Investigating a “Complex and Grave Situation” Inside a Wuhan Lab

The Wuhan Institute of Virology, the cutting-edge biotech facility at the center of swirling suspicions about the pandemic’s onset, was far more troubled than previously known, explosive documents unearthed by a Senate research team reveal. Following the trail of evidence, Vanity Fair and...

www.vanityfair.com

...The redacted emails included the agenda for a February 1, 2020, telephone conference between National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director Anthony Fauci; his then-boss, former National Institutes of Health director Francis Collins; and several of the world’s leading virologists. The communications contained extensive notes summarizing what was said during the call, but their substance was hidden at the time.

...On that call, virologists Michael Farzan and Robert Garry told Fauci and Collins the virus might have leaked from the Wuhan lab. It might have been genetically engineered, the transcription of Garry’s notes suggests, but this now seems unlikely. Another possibility, put forward by Farzan, was that it could have been evolved in the lab through a process known as serial passage.

...Infectious disease expert Kristian Andersen had warned Fauci that the virus may have been engineered in a lab, noting that he and several other high-profile scientists “all find the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory.” The scientists agreed to have a conference call the next day. “It was a very productive back-and-forth conversation where some on the call felt it could possibly be an engineered virus,” Fauci told Alison Young, writing for USA Today, in June 2021.

Not long after the call, Andersen was the lead author on a paper in Nature Medicine titled “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2.” The paper proposed “two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.” For the scientists and pundits who sought to discount the emerging lab-leak hypothesis, it offered the authoritative proof they needed. The paper has since been accessed more than 5.6 million times, with over 2,000 citations.

The authors acknowledged a third scenario, “selection during passage,” but they discussed it briefly and presented it as by far the least plausible. The newly released notes from the call, however, suggest that the scientists Fauci consulted initially considered that possibility to be much more serious than the paper let on.

...On February 2, Jeremy Farrar, an infectious disease expert and the director of Wellcome, sent around notes, including to Fauci and Collins, summarizing what some of the scientists had said on the call. Farzan, a Scripps professor who studied the spike protein on the 2003 SARS virus, “is bothered by the furin site and has a hard time explain that as an event outside the lab (though, there are possible ways in nature, but highly unlikely),” Farrar’s note reads, referring to a spike protein feature that aids interaction with furin, a common enzyme in human lung cells. Farzan didn’t think the site was the product of “directed engineering,” but found that the changes would be “highly compatible with the idea of continued passage of the virus in tissue culture.”

According to the transcribed notes, Garry, a professor at the Tulane University School of Medicine, said on the call that he had aligned the SARS-CoV-2 genome with that of RaTG13, a 96-percent similar virus isolated from bats at the Wuhan Institute of Virology that was long regarded as the new virus’s closest known relative — though a closer one has since been identified. Garry found that the spike proteins of RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2, which makes the latter so infectious, were nearly identical. The key distinction was in the ability of the new virus’s spike protein to interact with furin, which Garry found too perfect to make natural sense. “I just can’t figure out how this gets accomplished in nature,” he said.

House Republicans Release Text of Redacted Fauci Emails on Covid Origins

A scientist told The Intercept he was advised not to “mention a lab origin as that will just add fuel to the conspiracists” after a call with NIH leaders.

theintercept.com

The lab leak theory isn't debunked. If you think it's debunked post the links that show it is.

 

[MT15]

Okay.




For 15 months, Reid loaned this unusual skill to a nine-person team dedicated to investigating the mystery of COVID-19’s origins. Commissioned by Senator Richard Burr (R-N.C.), the team examined voluminous evidence, most of it open source but some classified, and weighed the major credible theories for how the novel coronavirus first made the leap to humans. An interim report, released on Thursday by the minority oversight staff of the US Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP), concludes that the COVID-19 pandemic was “more likely than not, the result of a research-related incident.”

COVID-19 Origins: Investigating a “Complex and Grave Situation” Inside a Wuhan Lab

The Wuhan Institute of Virology, the cutting-edge biotech facility at the center of swirling suspicions about the pandemic’s onset, was far more troubled than previously known, explosive documents unearthed by a Senate research team reveal. Following the trail of evidence, Vanity Fair and...

www.vanityfair.com

...The redacted emails included the agenda for a February 1, 2020, telephone conference between National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director Anthony Fauci; his then-boss, former National Institutes of Health director Francis Collins; and several of the world’s leading virologists. The communications contained extensive notes summarizing what was said during the call, but their substance was hidden at the time.

...On that call, virologists Michael Farzan and Robert Garry told Fauci and Collins the virus might have leaked from the Wuhan lab. It might have been genetically engineered, the transcription of Garry’s notes suggests, but this now seems unlikely. Another possibility, put forward by Farzan, was that it could have been evolved in the lab through a process known as serial passage.

...Infectious disease expert Kristian Andersen had warned Fauci that the virus may have been engineered in a lab, noting that he and several other high-profile scientists “all find the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory.” The scientists agreed to have a conference call the next day. “It was a very productive back-and-forth conversation where some on the call felt it could possibly be an engineered virus,” Fauci told Alison Young, writing for USA Today, in June 2021.

Not long after the call, Andersen was the lead author on a paper in Nature Medicine titled “The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2.” The paper proposed “two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.” For the scientists and pundits who sought to discount the emerging lab-leak hypothesis, it offered the authoritative proof they needed. The paper has since been accessed more than 5.6 million times, with over 2,000 citations.

The authors acknowledged a third scenario, “selection during passage,” but they discussed it briefly and presented it as by far the least plausible. The newly released notes from the call, however, suggest that the scientists Fauci consulted initially considered that possibility to be much more serious than the paper let on.

...On February 2, Jeremy Farrar, an infectious disease expert and the director of Wellcome, sent around notes, including to Fauci and Collins, summarizing what some of the scientists had said on the call. Farzan, a Scripps professor who studied the spike protein on the 2003 SARS virus, “is bothered by the furin site and has a hard time explain that as an event outside the lab (though, there are possible ways in nature, but highly unlikely),” Farrar’s note reads, referring to a spike protein feature that aids interaction with furin, a common enzyme in human lung cells. Farzan didn’t think the site was the product of “directed engineering,” but found that the changes would be “highly compatible with the idea of continued passage of the virus in tissue culture.”

According to the transcribed notes, Garry, a professor at the Tulane University School of Medicine, said on the call that he had aligned the SARS-CoV-2 genome with that of RaTG13, a 96-percent similar virus isolated from bats at the Wuhan Institute of Virology that was long regarded as the new virus’s closest known relative — though a closer one has since been identified. Garry found that the spike proteins of RaTG13 and SARS-CoV-2, which makes the latter so infectious, were nearly identical. The key distinction was in the ability of the new virus’s spike protein to interact with furin, which Garry found too perfect to make natural sense. “I just can’t figure out how this gets accomplished in nature,” he said.

House Republicans Release Text of Redacted Fauci Emails on Covid Origins

A scientist told The Intercept he was advised not to “mention a lab origin as that will just add fuel to the conspiracists” after a call with NIH leaders.

theintercept.com

The lab leak theory isn't debunked. If you think it's debunked post the links that show it is.

I just did. Did you read what the author of the paper said? He said the last two papers written by his team show that the natural origin is the only valid hypothesis.

Lab leak has been debunked, definitively.

 

[SaintForLife]

I just did. Did you read what the author of the paper said? He said the last two papers written by his team show that the natural origin is the only valid hypothesis.

Lab leak has been debunked, definitively.

Yeah I saw that. Please post the links showing the definitely debunking. Just because you claim it's been debunked doesn't mean it has.

 

[MT15]

Yeah I saw that. Please post the links showing the definitely debunking. Just because you claim it's been debunked doesn't mean it has.

You can read the scientific papers yourself. The guy I quoted wrote the freaking papers. I have read other scientists complaining about the two recent stories you are leaning on and saying they totally get everything wrong. If I come across those tweets again, I will share them. If not, oh well. I have shown you everything you would need if you truly want to know.

 

[SaintForLife]

You can read the scientific papers yourself. The guy I quoted wrote the freaking papers. I have read other scientists complaining about the two recent stories you are leaning on and saying they totally get everything wrong. If I come across those tweets again, I will share them. If not, oh well. I have shown you everything you would need if you truly want to know.

Post a link to the papers. If it's been definitely debunked as you say then it would be easy to post the links.

Also post the links showing the other scientists complaining about those two different stories.

You can easily search for them on Twitter. If you don't post the links I'll assume it's not true.

 

[MT15]

Post a link to the papers. If it's been definitely debunked as you say then it would be easy to post the links.

Also post the links showing the other scientists complaining about those two different stories.

You can easily search for them on Twitter. If you don't post the links I'll assume it's not true.

I’m not your errand runner. Read the scientists Twitter feed, you have a link to that in my post. I’m sure he linked his papers there. He probably also quotes other scientists who agree with him. Lift one finger to discover the truth that lies outside your bubble.

Besides, even if I look for and find them I doubt you would believe anything that goes against your preferred narrative anyway. Going from my previous experiences.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Another effect of the overdramatic lockdown decisions by our leaders. What is funny, is people are acting like this is a surprise. There were plenty of people (who were not kicked off social media platforms) that were telling us this back in March of 2020.

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/highlights/ltt/2022/

better dead than a dip in education i guess..

 

[SaintForLife]

I’m not your errand runner. Read the scientists Twitter feed, you have a link to that in my post. I’m sure he linked his papers there. He probably also quotes other scientists who agree with him. Lift one finger to discover the truth that lies outside your bubble.

Besides, even if I look for and find them I doubt you would believe anything that goes against your preferred narrative anyway. Going from my previous experiences.

You made the claim. How hard is it to back up what you claimed? All it takes is a few searches and then posting the links. If it was debunked, why did Biden do this?

Biden orders review of COVID origins as lab leak theory debated

President Joe Biden ordered aides to find answers to the origin of the virus that causes COVID-19, saying on Wednesday that U.S. intelligence agencies are pursuing rival theories potentially including the possibility of a laboratory accident in China.

www.reuters.com

 

[MT15]

You made the claim. How hard is it to back up what you claimed? All it takes is a few searches and then posting the links. If it was debunked, why did Biden do this?

Biden orders review of COVID origins as lab leak theory debated

President Joe Biden ordered aides to find answers to the origin of the virus that causes COVID-19, saying on Wednesday that U.S. intelligence agencies are pursuing rival theories potentially including the possibility of a laboratory accident in China.

www.reuters.com

Why did he do that in May of 2021? Good grief, are you even serious here? A year and a half ago we didn’t have the data we have now. Look it up yourself - I gave you the link to the guy‘s Twitter feed. If I happen to come across another reference to it I will post it. I gave you everything you need - all you have to do is click on his tweet and go to his Twitter feed. You won’t do it though, because you would rather cling to your conspiracy theories. You could easily prove me wrong about that, but you won’t.

 

[Farb]

Or... maybe nobody gives a shirt what you think. You're faced with a chance to be inclusive of the nonbelieving members of the US armed forces, and your response is to claim they don't even care. Common decency is super easy to give and you seem to reject it at every turn.

Obviously you do because here you are again.
I just chose not to be emotionally blackmailed on political message board by people who claim to be offended by a generic saying. If someone is offended by then then maybe society is not the best place for them.
Did you offer me a 'chance' or did you try and 'demand' I be more 'inclusive' by emotional blackmail and virtue signaling?

 

[Farb]

SFL - genetic studies of the virus have pointed to a natural origin for the SARS virus in question. That’s far more definitive than this sort of speculation. The lab leak theory has been discredited.

Who discredited the theory again? Can you post that for us?

 

[Farb]

better dead than a dip in education i guess..

Most normal people would prefer neither, like I said all along.

 

[Optimus Prime]

By the time you finish reading this article, someone in America will have died from Covid, according to CDC data. By Election Day on 8 November, that figure could rise to more than 4,700 people.

If current trends hold, every week, about as many Americans will be killed by Covid as died during the 9/11 attacks.

The latter tragedy defined an era of US and global politics, but the rolling crisis of Covid seems to have faded into the background politically this midterm season, thanks to a mixture of lukewarm public health messaging, fatigue among the public and a deeper, baked-in political dysfunction and shallowness in Washington.

It’s a dynamic that leaves those still suffering from Covid, or those most at risk of catching it, feeling like they have to fend for themselves. People are still dying, and matters of great importance are still being decided about coronavirus, yet if you looked at the headlines, you would scarcely know it………

The disappearance from the public consciousness has been profound.

According to recent polling from Monmouth University, voters don’t even rank Covid among their top 10 issues this election.

Instead, inflation, crime, and election integrity tended to top the list, with 70 per cent of voters listing those matters as very or extremely important, more than twice the number who said so about the pandemic. Barely a third of Americans aged 18 to 64 have their booster shot.

During the 2020 election, at least on the Democratic side, some form of public healthcare option like Medicare for All was seen as a litmus test.

Now two years later, even as researchers estimate a universal government health programme could’ve saved 212,000 lives and $105bn in pandemic-related healthcare costs, the idea scarcely merits a peep from most candidates…….

Thousands are still dying of Covid. Why isn’t anybody talking about it amid midterms?

Covid has killed a over million Americans and profoundly changed society, so why isn’t it a major issue this midterm season? Josh Marcus investigates

www.independent.co.uk

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Obviously you do because here you are again.

What can I say? I support the military. You should try it sometime.

I just chose not to be emotionally blackmailed on political message board by people who claim to be offended by a generic saying. If someone is offended by then then maybe society is not the best place for them.

It's not a generic saying, though. It's a very specific saying that belittles the beliefs of many members of our military.

Did you offer me a 'chance' or did you try and 'demand' I be more 'inclusive' by emotional blackmail and virtue signaling?

I said the 'no atheist in a foxhole' comment was insulting. I didn't demand anything. You had a chance to acknowledge that and move on. Instead, you doubled down (and have now tripled or quadrupled down). If you think being told that an insulting statement is virtue signaling and emotional blackmail, that's on you for being so thin-skinned that you can't admit when you've made a mistake. Unless you think insulting members of our military by belittling their beliefs is perfectly okay.

 

[Farb]

What can I say? I support the military. You should try it sometime.



It's not a generic saying, though. It's a very specific saying that belittles the beliefs of many members of our military.



I said the 'no atheist in a foxhole' comment was insulting. I didn't demand anything. You had a chance to acknowledge that and move on. Instead, you doubled down (and have now tripled or quadrupled down). If you think being told that an insulting statement is virtue signaling and emotional blackmail, that's on you for being so thin-skinned that you can't admit when you've made a mistake. Unless you think insulting members of our military by belittling their beliefs is perfectly okay.

Sounds like you support those that believe what you believe.

Are you in the military? Are you an atheist? My point is that those that tend to get offended for the sake of others should be addressed. It is another form of Karen. The middle aged, white college educated white women that tend to do it the most. I just call out the virtue signaling as I see it. No reason to be offended by it.

 

[MT15]

Who discredited the theory again? Can you post that for us?

It’s posted.