All things political. Coronavirus Edition. (1 Viewer)

Maxp

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I fear we are really going to be in a bad place due to the obvious cuts to the federal agencies that deal with infectious disease, but also the negative effect the Affordable Care act has had on non urban hospitals. Our front line defenses are ineffectual and our ability to treat the populous is probably at an all time low. Factor in the cost of healthcare and I can see our system crashing. What do you think about the politics of this virus?
 

JRad

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so...


During “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” the host told his prime-time audience to ask people wearing masks outside to remove them. He also said people should call the police or child protective services if they see children wearing masks outdoors, calling it “child abuse.”

“They’re the aggressors,”
“It’s our job to brush them back and restore the society we were born in. So the next time you see someone in a mask on the sidewalk or on the bike path, do not hesitate. Ask politely but firmly, ‘Would you please take off your mask? Science shows there is no reason for you to be wearing it. Your mask is making me uncomfortable.’”

Someone just did this to my friend's daughter at Wal-Mart. Mom turned her back and some random lady told daughter to pull down her mask.
He's less than pleased (he wasn't there).
 

Mr. Blue Sky

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Oh I dare someone to.


My thoughts exactly.

Depending on what kind of mood I’m in on a particular day, i would absolutely looove for some MAGA loser to come up to me and give me **** for wearing my mask... I’m actually getting giddy just thinking about what I’d say to them.. The first thing that comes to mind, for some reason is Baldwin’s speech from Glengarry.. I’d love to look at them and say “F*** YOU !!!.. Why, becuase you are a conspiracy-believing , good-for-nothing nutjob who cant get laid , and I’M PLANNING TO GET THE VACCINE !”
 

wardorican

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Someone just did this to my friend's daughter at Wal-Mart. Mom turned her back and some random lady told daughter to pull down her mask.
He's less than pleased (he wasn't there).
Inside or in the parking lot?
 

Optimus Prime

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The moon landing analogy that certainly applies here:

"I'm not saying the moon landing was faked! I'm just asking if it was."
==================================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nb...sial-lebron-opinion/ar-BB1g9uoZ?ocid=msedgntp
It took the top health official in Orange County, Calif., a few seconds to process a lawmaker’s question Tuesday during a Board of Supervisors meeting to discuss “vaccine passports.”

“In the vaccine, we heard about an injection of the tracking device,” Supervisor Don P. Wagner (R) said. “Is that being done anywhere in Orange County?”

Clayton Chau, the county’s health-care agency director, could not hold back his shocked laughter.

“I’m sorry. I just have to compose myself,” Chau said moments later. “There’s not a vaccine with a tracking device embedded in it that I know of exists in the world. Period.”

The clip quickly went viral, with critics piling on and accusing Wagner of spreading vaccine misinformation in a public meeting.

“Dear @DonWagnerCA, there is no tracking device in the #COVID19 vaccine,” tweeted Eric Feigl-Ding, an epidemiologist and health economist with the Federation of American Scientists. “Stop peddling conspiracies. You know you asked it in a conspiracy-deranged manner.”

But the legislator fiercely defended his question, insisting that he brought up the question on behalf of constituents who “made wild charges” about the vaccines, including a false claim that there are “microchips” in the shots.

“I led Dr. Chau through those charges and to have him debunk them,” Wagner said in an email to The Washington Post. “I knew they are not true but wanted the public to hear that directly from Dr. Chau. I got exactly the response from Dr. Chau I expected, with the same laugh at the absurdity of the charges that they deserve.”.............

 

superchuck500

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The moon landing analogy that certainly applies here:

"I'm not saying the moon landing was faked! I'm just asking if it was."
==================================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nb...sial-lebron-opinion/ar-BB1g9uoZ?ocid=msedgntp
It took the top health official in Orange County, Calif., a few seconds to process a lawmaker’s question Tuesday during a Board of Supervisors meeting to discuss “vaccine passports.”

“In the vaccine, we heard about an injection of the tracking device,” Supervisor Don P. Wagner (R) said. “Is that being done anywhere in Orange County?”

Clayton Chau, the county’s health-care agency director, could not hold back his shocked laughter.

“I’m sorry. I just have to compose myself,” Chau said moments later. “There’s not a vaccine with a tracking device embedded in it that I know of exists in the world. Period.”

The clip quickly went viral, with critics piling on and accusing Wagner of spreading vaccine misinformation in a public meeting.

“Dear @DonWagnerCA, there is no tracking device in the #COVID19 vaccine,” tweeted Eric Feigl-Ding, an epidemiologist and health economist with the Federation of American Scientists. “Stop peddling conspiracies. You know you asked it in a conspiracy-deranged manner.”

But the legislator fiercely defended his question, insisting that he brought up the question on behalf of constituents who “made wild charges” about the vaccines, including a false claim that there are “microchips” in the shots.

“I led Dr. Chau through those charges and to have him debunk them,” Wagner said in an email to The Washington Post. “I knew they are not true but wanted the public to hear that directly from Dr. Chau. I got exactly the response from Dr. Chau I expected, with the same laugh at the absurdity of the charges that they deserve.”.............


That was my precise question when I posted that on SR. The problem with 30 second video clips is that they can easily be misrepresented or misinterpreted.

I wasn't sure but his tone suggested to me that he was actually asking those questions so that the expert witness can debunk the mythology. This is a valuable service that should not be ridiculed. And a wholly professional expert should recognize the value of this line of questioning.

Now, that said, I don't know this legislator's history - but presuming that he isn't an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist, I think you have to believe his defense of the questioning and he was right to do it. Perhaps he could have made it more clear but that risks accusation of testifying for the witness rather than simply posing the question.
 

Saintamaniac

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That was my precise question when I posted that on SR. The problem with 30 second video clips is that they can easily be misrepresented or misinterpreted.

I wasn't sure but his tone suggested to me that he was actually asking those questions so that the expert witness can debunk the mythology. This is a valuable service that should not be ridiculed. And a wholly professional expert should recognize the value of this line of questioning.

Now, that said, I don't know this legislator's history - but presuming that he isn't an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist, I think you have to believe his defense of the questioning and he was right to do it. Perhaps he could have made it more clear but that risks accusation of testifying for the witness rather than simply posing the question.
He could have easily said something along the lines of "I fully understand that the notion of microchips being embedded with the vaccination is ludicrous but for the sake of some of my constituents who are weary of such claims, could you for the record confirm that there are no tracking devices or microchips embedded into the body with the current Covid-19 vaccinations from all manufacturers?"

Had he said anything close to that, no one would have questioned his reasons for asking such a question. However, as a sitting Republican, his motives can and must be questioned.
 

superchuck500

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He could have easily said something along the lines of "I fully understand that the notion of microchips being embedded with the vaccination is ludicrous but for the sake of some of my constituents who are weary of such claims, could you for the record confirm that there are no tracking devices or microchips embedded into the body with the current Covid-19 vaccinations from all manufacturers?"

Had he said anything close to that, no one would have questioned his reasons for asking such a question. However, as a sitting Republican, his motives can and must be questioned.

He could have - methods of effective elicitation of testimony vary, people choose different techniques. But critics may have dismissed that kind of question as highly suggestive of the answer and, in effect, substituting his own testimony for the witness.

I'm not sure I understand why it matters so much (his motives "must be questioned") - we got the right answer. The expert's testimony was that it's a silly question and there is no such technology anywhere in the world.

But while we're at it, one google search revealed that Mr. Wagner is indeed a strong advocate of vaccination, as this statement from early January evidences:

In addition to the five large-scale vaccination sites set to open in Los Angeles County in the coming days, Disneyland Resort in Anaheim is the first planned “super” COVID-19 vaccination site in Orange County.

“It’s important to vaccinate as many willing people as possible for COVID-19, and we need the space to do it,” Orange County Supervisor Donald P. Wagner said in a statement.


So here's a guy who is a strong advocate of vaccination trying to get clear testimony from the expert to debunk anti-vax mythology and his question style (which was entirely legitimate), because people are only watching a very short clip, leads some to react that he actually believes this mythology. And now he has to defend himself.

It's nothing more than the product of the Twitter-style of information dissemination - people are far too quick to judge on very small pieces of information . . . and they regularly do it even though it's immaterial.

The testimony here was exactly what it should have been - tracking devices in vaccines are a ridiculous idea . . . that's the story.
 

DaveXA

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He could have - methods of effective elicitation of testimony vary, people choose different techniques. But critics may have dismissed that kind of question as highly suggestive of the answer and, in effect, substituting his own testimony for the witness.

I'm not sure I understand why it matters so much (his motives "must be questioned") - we got the right answer. The expert's testimony was that it's a silly question and there is no such technology anywhere in the world.

But while we're at it, one google search revealed that Mr. Wagner is indeed a strong advocate of vaccination, as this statement from early January evidences:




So here's a guy who is a strong advocate of vaccination trying to get clear testimony from the expert to debunk anti-vax mythology and his question style (which was entirely legitimate), because people are only watching a very short clip, leads some to react that he actually believes this mythology. And now he has to defend himself.

It's nothing more than the product of the Twitter-style of information dissemination - people are far too quick to judge on very small pieces of information . . . and they regularly do it even though it's immaterial.

The testimony here was exactly what it should have been - tracking devices in vaccines are a ridiculous idea . . . that's the story.

Yeah, I'm guilty of falling for the 30 second soundbites and tweets on occasion and not digging more to get the full context. I think we get lazy and go with it a little too easily sometimes. Solid points.
 

Saintamaniac

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The testimony here was exactly what it should have been - tracking devices in vaccines are a ridiculous idea . . . that's the story.
20 years ago, would that question even have had to be asked? I don't think so and it's a testament to what people have allowed to persist for the sake of political power. It is a damn shame and an indictment of the state of our society that even the idea of entertaining such absurdity must be accepted as legitimate questioning.
 

superchuck500

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Yeah, I'm guilty of falling for the 30 second soundbites and tweets on occasion and not digging more to get the full context. I think we get lazy and go with it a little too easily sometimes. Solid points.

He's being skewered on twitter by people who think he's anti-vax, when he's in fact very pro vax. So they're skewering an ally in the vaccination debate. It's so stupid.
 

superchuck500

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20 years ago, would that question even had to be asked? I don't think so and it's a testimony to what people have allowed to persist for the sake of political power. It is a damn shame and an indictment of the state of our society that even the idea of entertaining such absurdity must be accepted as legitimate questioning.

Be that as it may, the reality is that he likely hears that stuff and wants to set the record straight for constituents in Orange County.

That seems like a reasonable choice.
 

Saintamaniac

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Be that as it may, the reality is that he likely hears that stuff and wants to set the record straight for constituents in Orange County.

That seems like a reasonable choice.
If he's hearing it from constituents in Orange County, he should be shutting it down at the moment he hears it. He should be telling his constituents how ridiculous that notion is and how beneath the person asking and himself to even entertain such assertions.

"I understand your concerns but that's just stupid and I won't entertain it as a serious question."

The very reason we are faced with QAnon conspiracies is because people in serious and important positions entertained the notion that any of that nonsense was worth being discussed.
 

superchuck500

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If he's hearing it from constituents in Orange County, he should be shutting it down at the moment he hears it. He should be telling his constituents how ridiculous that notion is and how beneath the person asking and himself to even entertain such assertions.

"I understand your concerns but that's just stupid and I won't entertain it as a serious question."

Maybe he does. But this was a hearing for Orange County board of supervisors to discuss whether to implement vaccine passports for access to certain activities. The hearing had the doctor to testify about that topic and it's entirely reasonable to ask those questions if that's something that they're hearing in the community.

To say it's so stupid that even asking the question is unwarranted is your own judgment - it's not necessarily wrong but it's not the only view. Here's a guy trying to get people vaccinated and when he has an opportunity with an expert he asks the question so that it's on the record.

Do you at least recognize the value of being able to say "this concern is clearly baseless and silly . . . we even had the expert at the hearing (record cite) testify that there's no such technology"? That's entirely reasonable to me.

I'm not going to substitute my own judgment for what kind of sentiment he's seeing in Orange County. But I do think that his choice to elicit that testimony could have value if he sees it that way.

And criticizing a pro-vaccination official for trying to debunk a myth about vaccination seems counterproductive to me.
 

DaveXA

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If he's hearing it from constituents in Orange County, he should be shutting it down at the moment he hears it. He should be telling his constituents how ridiculous that notion is and how beneath the person asking and himself to even entertain such assertions.

"I understand your concerns but that's just stupid and I won't entertain it as a serious question."

The very reason we are faced with QAnon conspiracies is because people in serious and important positions entertained the notion that any of that nonsense was worth being discussed.

I think you're missing the point that he has been doing precisely that and has clearly been pro-vax. People are getting to wrapped up in the soundbite and missing his point entirely. The criticism is well-meaning, but not only misguided, but also alienates an ally in the broader context of fighting against anti-vaxxers and Q-anon people.
 

CoolBrees

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I agree with Chuck.

the problem with stories like this, is it is red meat for the right to point and yell “See! They are just trying to paint us all crazy! Fake newzzz!!!!

It is so counterproductive and dumb in my opinion. There is a mountain of bullshirt that is just waiting to be mined. But instead clicks rule the day. Hit jobs like this only weaken our argument as they provide fodder to the opportunists looking for a story.
 

DaveXA

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I agree with Chuck.

the problem with stories like this, is it is red meat for the right to point and yell “See! They are just trying to paint us all crazy! Fake newzzz!!!!

It is so counterproductive and dumb in my opinion. There is a mountain of bullshirt that is just waiting to be mined. But instead clicks rule the day. Hit jobs like this only weaken our argument as they provide fodder to the opportunists looking for a story.

Well said. :9:
 

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